Terriers Barking, But Can Bolton Bite Back? - Bolton v Hudderfield - 14/09/2024 @ 3pm

[Bertie Wooster]

For those who went or watched it live - did it get toxic ?

I heard that there was plenty of loud booing 2nd half and that the ground emptied quite quickly after the 3rd goal, I also heard that the Hudds fans where singing 'your getting sacked in the morning' and that a few Bolton fans joined in.

But did it feel like the fans turned on Evatt ?

[Worthy4England]

There was booing by HT, probably due in part to proximity of their first goal.

Some folks departed at goal 2. It was like the DW by goal three.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For me, coming out with "I don't know what to do", regardless of anything else, means he has to go. You can't verbalise that and expect the players to have confidence and belief in you and what you're trying to do. You might get away with the fans losing confidence and belief for a time, but as soon as the players don't believe you lose any chance of doing anything about it.

Exactly. If thats your gaffa on a Friday telling you they don’t know how to manage you and results are that bad you are going out of business, you are into the people above on a Monday morning telling them a change is needed. Infact that’s what should happen - Santos should find his voice and take some senior players in to see Sharon or Phil Mason or whoever is on the ground and tell them they need a new voice.

If the players don't feel its time for change I think it points to Insano being right about them being too comfortable.

The sad thing is a lot of them on signing said how impressed they were with Evatt's ideas and ambitions. I'm not for a moment saying we should therefore keep him, but the new manager would have to convince them.

However, footballers tend to be a resilient lot - it's a peripatetic lifestyle under a stream of masters - so managers often have to work hard to alienate them.

I don't think he's alienated players and he seems to talk the talk, so I can see newbies being impressed. I do wonder if some if the ones that have been here a while might have started muttering same shit same result. Wouldn't take long in that scenario for the new believers to become non believers.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The sad thing is a lot of them on signing said how impressed they were with Evatt's ideas and ambitions. I'm not for a moment saying we should therefore keep him, but the new manager would have to convince them.

However, footballers tend to be a resilient lot - it's a peripatetic lifestyle under a stream of masters - so managers often have to work hard to alienate them.

I don't think he's alienated players and he seems to talk the talk, so I can see newbies being impressed. I do wonder if some if the ones that have been here a while might have started muttering same shit same result. Wouldn't take long in that scenario for the new believers to become non believers.

For clarity, by the last remark I meant "new managers" but I guess the same applies. Well, some players do get bored - "they need a new voice" etc - well, hiring Crainey doesn't exactly seem to have worked out... or maybe it's having McGinlay on co-comms for every game, or some new ads, or chucking out that local firm from the food stalls.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

For those who went or watched it live - did it get toxic ?

I heard that there was plenty of loud booing 2nd half and that the ground emptied quite quickly after the 3rd goal, I also heard that the Hudds fans where singing 'your getting sacked in the morning' and that a few Bolton fans joined in.

But did it feel like the fans turned on Evatt ?

I was doing a booing commentary on here. Boos at HT, louder boos after 2nd goal, bit quieter after the 3rd cos some had left, almost laughter after the 4th.

There was also, even before we went behind, a curious discontented murmuring every time the ball went back to Baxter, even if that made sense (eg player on ball was getting pressed).

Hard to tell from audio but it definitely felt like the booing was much much more than just some malcontents. And it wasn't hard to see that there were a few busloads less than 20,000 by the end.

[truewhite15]

Having kept a running note, it's still not toxic. There were boos, but it wasn't deafening. There was also a short-lived "we want Evatt out" chant after goal 3, and smatterings of fans joined in with Huddersfield's "sacked in the morning".

It hasn't reached the atmosphere of the end of Megson, Coyle and Freedman yet. But it's coming.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Having kept a running note, it's still not toxic. There were boos, but it wasn't deafening. There was also a short-lived "we want Evatt out" chant after goal 3, and smatterings of fans joined in with Huddersfield's "sacked in the morning".

It hasn't reached the atmosphere of the end of Megson, Coyle and Freedman yet. But it's coming.

I hope we don't find out, but the mood before/during next Saturday's home game v Reading will be.... interesting if he's still at the wheel.

[Prufrock]

Hmm. I hear where you're at Insano and I actually think we'd tried to simplify it yesterday. Felt like there were faster balls forward. But that needs a plan too. It isn't as easy as "Let's not play complicated plan A, just hoof it"

I'm not sure where the quality balls into the box are coming from and the most worrying aspect is the amount of times he said, paraphrasing, I don't know what to do. I mean when your last 4 (I think) you've conceded at least 2 per game, I'd probably start there..

In better news, we had the lions share of possession...

Aye, was v noticeable yesterday that everytime they got to a loose ball in midfield it's one touch, over the top. Their forwards no, first touch is the trigger you need to be on the line for the second. It's very simple, and I'm not suggesting that's what we should be doing, but within five minutes it was like watching Barnsley from two years ago.

There have been times under Evatt where I've known exactly what the plan is, an identity, everyone looking to do the same thing even if it didn't work. Glimpses aside that's been nowhere to be seen this year. Front three pressing high but the back 4 deep in our half, passing around the back but with purpose or pattern.

It's very bad, and looks unsalvageable.

If he's not gone for the next game, you hope it's roll the dice back to a back four. We don't have the players to play an ideal 433, but we do have the players to play a serviceable one and good players too. If he has any chance, then it's with a 433, sort the basics, get on the the detail once the ship is back afloat.

I think we're well past that, though.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If he's not gone for the next game, you hope it's roll the dice back to a back four. We don't have the players to play an ideal 433, but we do have the players to play a serviceable one and good players too. If he has any chance, then it's with a 433, sort the basics, get on the the detail once the ship is back afloat.

I would agree. The only big question is whether you go Johnston or Schön at LB; I think I'd go Johnston, who I wouldn't pick in the middle of a back four. The three big lads can scrap it out for those two places; JDC or perhaps Gethin (who we may have missed more than we thought...) at RB. Sheehan/Matete/Thomason is a very good midfield three in this division, with Dempsey as backup/option. And then it's three from Dion, Vic, Collins, McAtee as the front three, with Schön and Randell as more chalky-booted options.

We have good players, and those players have good results in them.

[boltonboris]

Shambles. The worst performance yet from one of Evatt's teams.

Not one single player won their battle against their opposite number. As much blame as you can lay on the manager (and you can and should), he can't do it for them. They didn't tackle, they didn't pass, they didn't track runners. Every single relevant metric to determine getting to a positive result, was not met.

However, what Evatt can do is stop the midfield being a man short. All afternoon. twice we broke their press with a neat interchange then we ballsed it up in the attacking third. 2 times. In the whole game

In the first half, we had a goal kick. Lined up a back 5, tucked the 2 midfielders right into our own defenders and had 60 yards between midfield and forwards. Baxter lumped it straight to their giant centre back, who won the header, they got the second ball (shock) and within 2 passes were through on goal. I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. Or what logic was applied to it.

I'm still scratching my head as to what the game plan was. What we were trying to achieve and why the manager didn't change more things at HT

At HT I'd have sacked off Toal for Johnston, Dempsey for Sheehan, Schon for Williams and Collins for Adeboyejo and reverted back to 3--5-2 to try and get a grip of the game. But it was just a straight swap for Charles and Vic.

Toal is a concern. After 20 mins he looked like he'd done 3 tours of Afghanistan and been told he was having a week off in the Gaza strip.

[boltonboris]

If he's not gone for the next game, you hope it's roll the dice back to a back four. We don't have the players to play an ideal 433, but we do have the players to play a serviceable one and good players too. If he has any chance, then it's with a 433, sort the basics, get on the the detail once the ship is back afloat.

I would agree. The only big question is whether you go Johnston or Schön at LB; I think I'd go Johnston, who I wouldn't pick in the middle of a back four. The three big lads can scrap it out for those two places; JDC or perhaps Gethin (who we may have missed more than we thought...) at RB. Sheehan/Matete/Thomason is a very good midfield three in this division, with Dempsey as backup/option. And then it's three from Dion, Vic, Collins, McAtee as the front three, with Schön and Randell as more chalky-booted options.

We have good players, and those players have good results in them.

Schön is crap. I wouldn't have him in a back 4 in a month of Sundays

[GhostoftheBok]

Schön is crap. I wouldn't have him in a back 4 in a month of Sundays

I don't think he's crap, but I'd not want him defending the far post in League One.

[boltonboris]

I trust your analytical views more than my emotional ones. But the view my actual eyes see is one I trust on this case.

He's not quick, he's not strong, he's not aggressive. He hides the ball quite well when he's turning to pass it backwards though - He's just another player who's technically ok but will never rip up any trees or take the game by the scruff of the neck. Loads of times he (and JDC) had room to move into, but decided that there wasn't a pass option so stopped and went back. When the shit's hitting the fan and you back yourself, if there's no pass on, you can drive up the pitch and try and make something happen.

He's never going to do that and as you say, in a 4 he'll cost us more than he'll give us

[GhostoftheBok]

I trust your analytical views more than my emotional ones.

Bloody hell, don't do that. I'm fecking livid at the minute.

[Prufrock]

I'm far from convinced, and that's where I'm at so far. Tidy enough, but I'm not sure what else. That said he's young, in a new country, coming into a struggling team that's falling apart around him. I'm not writing him off yet, but I'd be going Johnston at left back initially at least until the show is back on the road. He *might* then be able to come in somewhere. He's not getting any quicker or taller though, so he's going to have to start showing something.

[officer_dibble]

Whether he turns into a player or not I don’t ever see him as a left back. My left back preference (back 4) order would be Johnston, then Williams, then I think you look at Jones or JDC there. Schon wouldn’t get in the side in a 433 but he might be an option off the bench.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Toal is a concern. After 20 mins he looked like he'd done 3 tours of Afghanistan and been told he was having a week off in the Gaza strip.

Yeah, he wouldn't be in my back four vs Reading - it'd be Santos and Forino for me.

And if Toal ever plays LCB again it will be met with a deep sense of foreboding. I've not written him off completely - he can be a League One defender, particularly in a back four - but dear me no.

Schön is crap. I wouldn't have him in a back 4 in a month of Sundays

I certainly wouldn't play him in a back four against a good team or a big team. There might, in a bright sunlit future when we've regained composure and momentum, be the possibility of him playing there at home in a game we'll dominate against a low block. But yeah, not promising thus far - and I can completely understand those who'd pick JDC, Gethin or Randell rather than him at LB.

[Worthy4England]

Toal is a concern. After 20 mins he looked like he'd done 3 tours of Afghanistan and been told he was having a week off in the Gaza strip.

Yeah, he wouldn't be in my back four vs Reading - it'd be Santos and Forino for me.

And if Toal ever plays LCB again it will be met with a deep sense of foreboding. I've not written him off completely - he can be a League One defender, particularly in a back four - but dear me no.

Schön is crap. I wouldn't have him in a back 4 in a month of Sundays

I certainly wouldn't play him in a back four against a good team or a big team. There might, in a bright sunlit future when we've regained composure and momentum, be the possibility of him playing there at home in a game we'll dominate against a low block. But yeah, not promising thus far - and I can completely understand those who'd pick JDC, Gethin or Randell rather than him at LB.

Hmmm. I'm not at all sure about Forino yet, either! (albeit I thought he was unlucky on the pengy, not like the ref hadn't been shown that exact script when he gave the Santos appeal the other way)

[Prufrock]

We'd need Randy further forward I suspect. One of them anyway.

I reckon you can get to Jan with:

Bax (Coleman)

JOT (Geth, JDC) - Santos (Forino) - Toal (Forrester) - Johnstone (Schon)

Matete - Sheehan - Tomo (Dempsey/Arfield/Lolos)

McAtee (Randy) - Dion (Vic ) - Collins (CMG)

With a fair few

[Prufrock]

And Toal, Christ yeah, LCB should be a sackable offence. He's always struggled there, but he's so so scared of giving the ball away every pass is five yards too safe. So it gets there, but Schon or whoever has no option but back. Horrible.