The Tykes Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Think I said before I probably did overestimate the quality of our squad though I still think we are somewhat underperforming.

why are we underperforming? (previously you said that is 100% down to the manager..)

I think it was.

As I said there is demonstrable improvement since the manager left, so that was certainly a factor.

But to be fair I think its evident the balance of the squad isn't right. That can't be fixed quickly.

The fitness will also take longer to fix.

The organisation is definitely better already.

[CAPSLOCK]

Think I said before I probably did overestimate the quality of our squad though I still think we are somewhat underperforming.

why are we underperforming? (previously you said that is 100% down to the manager..)

We're under performing because for about 80% of the match, the vast majority of our players can't be arsed. And I'm looking particularly at Eagles here. They have the quality to win games in this division, and to get into the playoffs even at this late stage. But they cannot be bothered putting the effort in to get there. That was painfully obvious against Barnsley. Too many times, Barnsley had the ball, and were just passing at around. Our players didn't bother closing them down; essentially an attitude of "meh, we'll get it back eventually". Similarly when we had the ball, there was no urgency on the counter attack (the goal aside). It wasn't helped by a piss-poor referee that didn't have a fecking clue when to let play go and when to blow the whistle, but our players have an attitude problem that prevents them playing at 100% for 90 minutes; they think they're gonna walk the game before they even step out.

It's a problem that pervades into, or possibly began with, the fans. I'm looking at those that booed when Andrews came on, and those that whinge and whine when we build up slowly, and then those that whinge and whine when we boot it long. We need fight and bottle in this league, and the best teams generally have an imposing, intimidating atmosphere when they play at home. I know these things are sort of a symbiotic relationship (the crowd responds to the players, the players respond to the fans) but there's a definite lack of the battling, underdog, us-against-the-world mentality that made us great in the Premier League, and made us great before then when we were going up.

I miss Big Sam.

Look all you like

My perception is that Eagles is our hardest working player

I'd guess he does as many yards as anybody and much of it at a sprint

he may be a soft bastard, but he is not fcuking lazy

[thebish]

Think I said before I probably did overestimate the quality of our squad though I still think we are somewhat underperforming.

why are we underperforming? (previously you said that is 100% down to the manager..)

I think it was.

As I said there is demonstrable improvement since the manager left, so that was certainly a factor.

I think I might have a different meaning in mind for the word "underperforming"

if someone says to me that a player is underperforming - then it means (to me) that the player is not playing to his full ability.

I have heard people who go to the games say that the players are not battling and don't look as if they care enough...
to me - that's different to saying they are unfit or not organised well - it's an attitude thing...

I don't know how you'd measure how organised we are - people who go to the games are saying that we still play players (Ngog) out of position (to the exclusion of players who CAN play there) which leads to us (effectively) playing with ten men... what are the signs that we are more organised - specifically?

fitness - granted - there is a legacy of unfitness that will take dougie time to fix

but - organisation and motivation - why is that such a long-term job? (unless these players are unmotivatable and impossible to organise and we need to rebuild again with dougie's choices...)

if the players are still underperforming - than some of that is down to him, surely?

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye I don't think Eagles is lazy.

He is frustrating though. Makes things happen but in general too often his final ball, cross or shot is poor and a lot of the time he makes the wrong decision.

Dougie needs to work on our delivery into the box because its wank. Especially from corners and free kicks.

We need to make far more of those than we are doing.

[Prufrock]

Aye Eagles isn't lazy. I do remember when we signed Tuncay a Stoke fan said he'd go chasing mad things all the way back to the keeper to look good but then be out of positionn and I do think there is a bit of that about Eagles though.

Chungy needs his head sorting, and properly. Bottled at least one that was 60-40 in his favour. Not blaming him, but he's no use to us at the moment. Shrink job.

And yet again I wonder why large parts of our fanbase even bother going. I think they've taken to enjoying hating it. Constant whinging and shouting. Booing Andrews when he came on, booing at full-time. We didn't even lose! It wasn't great, but if that is the booing standard then jeez. I swear they only go to boo, they'd be lost if we played well. It's like pish comedians who swear all the time, it loses its effect. The wankers.

[89bwfc89]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

It's been said numerous times before that we can't expect to beat anybody in this league.

[BWFC_Insane]

Think I said before I probably did overestimate the quality of our squad though I still think we are somewhat underperforming.

why are we underperforming? (previously you said that is 100% down to the manager..)

I think it was.

As I said there is demonstrable improvement since the manager left, so that was certainly a factor.

I think I might have a different meaning in mind for the word "underperforming"

if someone says to me that a player is underperforming - then it means (to me) that the player is not playing to his full ability.

I have heard people who go to the games say that the players are not battling and don't look as if they care enough...
to me - that's different to saying they are unfit or not organised well - it's an attitude thing...

I don't know how you'd measure how organised we are - people who go to the games are saying that we still play players (Ngog) out of position (to the exclusion of players who CAN play there) which leads to us (effectively) playing with ten men... what are the signs that we are more organised - specifically?

fitness - granted - there is a legacy of unfitness that will take dougie time to fix

but - organisation and motivation - why is that such a long-term job? (unless these players are unmotivatable and impossible to organise and we need to rebuild again with dougie's choices...)

if the players are still underperforming - than some of that is down to him, surely?

Bish, in terms of what we are doing off the ball its night and day to what happened previously.

We aren't being walked through because we have a shape defensively that appears to be working and players seem to know what they should be doing.

When we lose the ball we get our shape very quickly. Its noticeably better and its why we defend better.

I'd say we are infinitely better organised than we previously were. In the last two games we've given precious few clear cut chances away. The goals conceded were two long rangers and one piece of poor defending from a free kick. But in open play its far less nervewracking as we look more solid and less likely to concede a goal at any moment. I don't think it takes a lot to convert either performance into a clean sheet. I really don't.

I'm not sure its as easy to sort out the underperformance so quickly as you might suggest. I suspect that we are a key ingredient or two away in the squad. I think any manager coming in had to first make us more solid, then move onto other areas.

In terms of motivation, I don't think thats an easy sort out either. I think people think of motivation as the manager standing in the dressing room reciting Jerusalem. But the players have to want to play, they have to be a united group and have to want to fight. Perhaps we've a few too many who don't want to do that. Dougie may well turn some of them round, but may want a few characters he has picked to help us along the way. We don't have many leaders on the pitch, that is for sure.

[boltonboris]

All of the above is true (re: defensive shape), but we've become so rigid and at times, so deep that we don't look like being able to go the other way and win the game.

[thebish]

In terms of motivation, I don't think thats an easy sort out either. I think people think of motivation as the manager standing in the dressing room reciting Jerusalem. But the players have to want to play, they have to be a united group and have to want to fight. Perhaps we've a few too many who don't want to do that. Dougie may well turn some of them round, but may want a few characters he has picked to help us along the way. We don't have many leaders on the pitch, that is for sure.

i think this has been a problem for a while - I don't really think KD does that job very well... I kind of get the impression that none of them are sure enough of themselves to be able to inspire/motivate others... they all seem to be a bit scared/insecure...

[BL3]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

[BWFC_Insane]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

But we're still taking more than the 1ppg we were under the previous manager.

So better than that surely?

[plymouth wanderer]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

BL3 can't believe your still fvcking harping on

It's been 4 fvcking games

Don't you think he deserves abit more time

6 games at least

[Prufrock]

He's had four games and we still aren't top! Wtf?

[BL3]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

BL3 can't believe your still fvcking harping on

It's been 4 fvcking games

Don't you think he deserves abit more time

6 games at least

Four games is long enough to work out that N'gog isn't a winger.

[BWFC_Insane]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

BL3 can't believe your still fvcking harping on

It's been 4 fvcking games

Don't you think he deserves abit more time

6 games at least

Four games is long enough to work out that N'gog isn't a winger.

Neither is Kevin Davies, he still played out there for several games during our most successful period in the past 50 years.

[boltonboris]

I think it's fair to say the old bloke would be getting pelters if he played that line up..

[Prufrock]

All of the above is true (re: defensive shape), but we've become so rigid and at times, so deep that we don't look like being able to go the other way and win the game.

I don't think we look any less likely to score than we did under Coyle. One of the fallacies of his time this season is that while we were shit at the back we at least played attacking football. There was no fluidity, no creativity, no discernable game plan. I thought we created enough chances on Saturday to win the game. We had four, five, maybe more efforts from about twenty yards that were right down their keeper's throat. You might not expect to score every one from that range, but we didn't do enough.

Re: Davo's goal, I've only seen it live, but to dismiss it as easy as some seem seems very one-eyed. Was a very good touch and a good finish. Far from 'easy'. On the other hand he had showed Pratley like levels of awareness earlier as one rebounded off his shin in the six yard box. I thought he had a poor game overall, but ho took his goal very well.

[plymouth wanderer]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

BL3 can't believe your still fvcking harping on

It's been 4 fvcking games

Don't you think he deserves abit more time

6 games at least

Four games is long enough to work out that N'gog isn't a winger.

Errr 1 game he's played on the wing not the four you keep harping on about

I can forgive DF for looking at all his options

But i suppose you've made up your mind so let's just sack him

[Prufrock]

Talk of going unbeaten is pretty meaningless. Fair enough if we're fighting for survival in the Premier League and most teams get 0 points a week, but when we're aiming for 1.86 ppg (for 75 points and the playoffs), wins are pretty much all that count. If you don't win, that number goes up.

If you can't expect us to beat Barnsley, who can you expect us to beat? Presumably only the spoilt and deluded would expect us to win away at Brighton or Blackburn, so that's another two games where the target will be drifting further and further away.

Dougie can have all the time in the world for me, but there's no point pretending there were any positive signs yesterday. There just weren't.

Absolutely spot on. Unbeaten runs are irrelevant if it's just one draw after another. We won't be promoted by picking up three points every three games. Better to win two, lose one. In the last four games we've taken as many points as Ipswich and they've lost two of those 5-0 and 6-0.

BL3 can't believe your still fvcking harping on

It's been 4 fvcking games

Don't you think he deserves abit more time

6 games at least

Four games is long enough to work out that N'gog isn't a winger.

Well, it took a lot longer than four games, but you never seemed to figure out that Mark Davies isn't one either!

I don't think N'Gog wide in that shape was neccessarily a bad idea. It clearly didn't work though and he looked lost. Not worried about trying things, I might be worried if we see that again though.

[BL3]

Errr 1 game he's played on the wing not the four you keep harping on about

I can forgive DF for looking at all his options

...and he played him on the wing in the fourth of those games. There might have at least been some logic to 'looking at all his options' in the first of those games but i don't see much logic to fixing something that wasn't broken three games later... against one of the worst teams in the league.