Freedman out!

[Lord Kangana]

On the developing players thing. He was at Palace a bit longer than he has been here. So either he gets credit for doing it at Palace, and criticism for not here, or he wasn't there long enough to get credit there and so can't be criticised for not doing it here in less time. You can't have it both ways.

On Pogba, yeah not good enough for United's central midfield but walked into the team at Juve. To say everyone wants to develop young players doesn't take it anywhere because - well, of course they do! Good players for free!

I'm happy with that. Because from this vantage point he's done 79% of cock-all, whilst talking an excellent game.

Perhaps, and here's a thought for him, he leaves Sammy Lee to do his job, and stops throwing up smoke screens to divert us from the parlous league position we find ourselves in. Do the job you're here for, and stop talking about the job you wished you had, there's a good lad Dougie.

[Hoboh]

He did, at best, an average job with Palace and he's done awful since taking over us.

You keep saying this and I wonder what basis you have for saying it?

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?
I can absolutely take people saying he wasn't there that long. And is unproven. But I really don't see how you can describe what he did as "an average job at best"???

Seems he's found reverse on his gearbox with us!

FFS BWFCi don't gamble on the horses, you'll loose everything

[Hoboh]

Just re-read the first two pages of this thread, there must be some red faces out there now

[bobo the clown]

We cannot become a 2 managers a season club. That way is the road to ruin.

However, despite injuries, fixtures, finances whatever his tactics not working ... either because they aren't any cop, or the players are incapable of adapting to them. I said on another thread that if he mistrusts his defence so much that he wants 3 holding midfielders then he has to deal withn the defence. That's the 2 centre half players. Why should they need such protection ?

The defensive nature of the midfield means nothing is being created. He also seems reluctant to use the more creative players ... Hall, raw maybe but fast, direct ... Moritz, surely match-fit by now.

It all revolves around Knight & Wheater not being up to, or up for it.

It's in Dougie's own hands and if he doesn't deal with them, then he will pay for it.

Well, I'm OK with my position back then.


.... except the first line, which I'd still hold with, in general terms.


Tziki, meanwhile .....

[TKIZ!]

We cannot become a 2 managers a season club. That way is the road to ruin.

However, despite injuries, fixtures, finances whatever his tactics not working ... either because they aren't any cop, or the players are incapable of adapting to them. I said on another thread that if he mistrusts his defence so much that he wants 3 holding midfielders then he has to deal withn the defence. That's the 2 centre half players. Why should they need such protection ?

The defensive nature of the midfield means nothing is being created. He also seems reluctant to use the more creative players ... Hall, raw maybe but fast, direct ... Moritz, surely match-fit by now.

It all revolves around Knight & Wheater not being up to, or up for it.

It's in Dougie's own hands and if he doesn't deal with them, then he will pay for it.

Well, I'm OK with my position back then.


.... except the first line, which I'd still hold with, in general terms.


Tziki, meanwhile .....

You rang, Sir? I was of the belief that Dougie could turn the situation round. I hoped he would for the sake of the club I support. It does seem that we fear to get rid where other teams don't with Laudrup now also getting the sack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... olton.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Enoch]

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?

You might have mentioned the season he took over half way through they finished 20th, his first full season 17th and not until the subsequent season did he take them to the top.

Still, that's all irrelevant.

And he was lucky to get to 7th last term. Any fool can see that!

[plymouth wanderer]

Just re-read the first two pages of this thread, there must be some red faces out there now

No! not really!

[jaffka]

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?

You might have mentioned the season he took over half way through they finished 20th, his first full season 17th and not until the subsequent season did he take them to the top.

Still, that's all irrelevant.

And he was lucky to get to 7th last term. Any fool can see that!

What is he this year then?

[LeverEnd]

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?

You might have mentioned the season he took over half way through they finished 20th, his first full season 17th and not until the subsequent season did he take them to the top.

Still, that's all irrelevant.

And he was lucky to get to 7th last term. Any fool can see that!

Do you think he is a good manager and will he turn things rounds for us? If we stay around this position, or drop lower, how should he get?

[chester white]

I'll say it before Smokin does... get Laudrup in!

[LeverEnd]

I'll say it before Smokin does... get Laudrup in!

You're smokin summat if you think that might happen!

[Enoch]

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?

You might have mentioned the season he took over half way through they finished 20th, his first full season 17th and not until the subsequent season did he take them to the top.

Still, that's all irrelevant.

And he was lucky to get to 7th last term. Any fool can see that!

Do you think he is a good manager and will he turn things rounds for us? If we stay around this position, or drop lower, how should he get?

I have no idea if he's a good manager, similarly I've no idea if he's a bad manager. I don't feel I'm remotely well placed to judge.

As to how long he remains in the job, which I guess was your second question, it's nothing to do with me, that's between Davies and Gartside I believe.

It may disappoint that I choose not to judge things about which I have little or no knowledge, but that's me.

[jaffka]

As far as I can see he took over a club that were in a mess, without a penny to their name, selling all their experienced players, and second from bottom in the championship.

When he left they were what? Top? Second?

You might have mentioned the season he took over half way through they finished 20th, his first full season 17th and not until the subsequent season did he take them to the top.

Still, that's all irrelevant.

And he was lucky to get to 7th last term. Any fool can see that!

Do you think he is a good manager and will he turn things rounds for us? If we stay around this position, or drop lower, how should he get?

I have no idea if he's a good manager, similarly I've no idea if he's a bad manager. I don't feel I'm remotely well placed to judge.

As to how long he remains in the job, which I guess was your second question, it's nothing to do with me, that's between Davies and Gartside I believe.

It may disappoint that I choose not to judge things about which I have little or no knowledge, but that's me.

or have an opinion

[Lord Kangana]

You can start here. Just on the right about half way down.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/championship/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Let the education commence!

[Worthy4England]

I'll say it before Smokin does... get Laudrup in!

Fck off!!! He might want to sign N'gog!

[Lord Kangana]

That'd be f*cking hilarious after the rigmarole of trying to punt him on.

[Enoch]

I knew I'd been here before:

you seem to have an extraordinary faith in your man Freedman.

I joined this site after Freedman's appointment because having been a fairly regular attendee at Palace during his reign, I thought I might add something; I may have been misguided.

For me, the fortunes of BWFC come before any individual. Do I think Freedman is the best person to manage the club through what is clearly a difficult period? Certainly not. Do I think the club's long term interests would be better served by employing one of the journeyman managers that are repeatedly suggested as candidates? None that I would pin my faith on.

Freedman is not my man, I'd prefer to see Alex Ferguson in the job.

And again:

I think what I was saying, though I've been to sleep since, was along these lines. Given where we appear to be as a club, changing the manager for one of the likely suspects is unlikely to make much difference to our long term prospects.

Just my view, I may well be wrong.

Oh and this:

Not knowing the truth of what's going on leaves me suffering the same tough experience as everyone else. DSB made the point earlier with his Owls fans post, few clubs fans are happy with their manager/players/board etc. A constant sweeping it away and hoping the next joker is the magic bullet doesn't interest me.

I will repeat myself. I accept there are no guarantees, but fans wanted Ferguson out for most of his first three seasons and as recently as August this year, folk were clamouring for Wenger to be sacked.

I've seen Freedman teams in full flow and it's a pleasure to watch. The first time he got Palace firing it fell away, in large part, no doubt, to some of the same issues we have here. The second time he got them all facing in the same direction he left whilst it was still going great......

.....I'm not advocating blind faith, just patience. So I know I'm pissing in the wind.

I hope I don't become one of those folk that keep going over the same old ground.

[Hoboh]

I knew I'd been here before:

you seem to have an extraordinary faith in your man Freedman.

I joined this site after Freedman's appointment because having been a fairly regular attendee at Palace during his reign, I thought I might add something; I may have been misguided.

For me, the fortunes of BWFC come before any individual. Do I think Freedman is the best person to manage the club through what is clearly a difficult period? Certainly not. Do I think the club's long term interests would be better served by employing one of the journeyman managers that are repeatedly suggested as candidates? None that I would pin my faith on.

Freedman is not my man, I'd prefer to see Alex Ferguson in the job.

And again:

I think what I was saying, though I've been to sleep since, was along these lines. Given where we appear to be as a club, changing the manager for one of the likely suspects is unlikely to make much difference to our long term prospects.

Just my view, I may well be wrong.

Oh and this:

Not knowing the truth of what's going on leaves me suffering the same tough experience as everyone else. DSB made the point earlier with his Owls fans post, few clubs fans are happy with their manager/players/board etc. A constant sweeping it away and hoping the next joker is the magic bullet doesn't interest me.

I will repeat myself. I accept there are no guarantees, but fans wanted Ferguson out for most of his first three seasons and as recently as August this year, folk were clamouring for Wenger to be sacked.

I've seen Freedman teams in full flow and it's a pleasure to watch. The first time he got Palace firing it fell away, in large part, no doubt, to some of the same issues we have here. The second time he got them all facing in the same direction he left whilst it was still going great......

.....I'm not advocating blind faith, just patience. So I know I'm pissing in the wind.

I hope I don't become one of those folk that keep going over the same old ground.

You see it is now’t to do with ‘old Ground’.
I firmly believe that a decent manager or one with half a clue, could train, discipline and organize a group of average players and finish in the top six of a shite league like this one. I would also suggest we have a couple of players that given the right setup are above the average and could have pushed on for a top two-spot.
You need a plan A and a plan B and someone with the nuance as when to switch either via shape or via subs, IMHO Freedman fails on all counts.
Our defending is atrocious at times yet the manager goes chasing Mids or forwards, the first victory in any game is not to lose and build on that, which means a solid well protected defence.
Look at Terry at Chelsea, everyone reckoned he was finished but this season is turning out to be one of his best for a couple of years, why, he has no pace and is vulnerable to players running but he is protected from that unlike our super tanker centre halves.
Freedman buggers about with the starting line up so the ‘poor dears’ are fresh or so he claims.
Quick question, how many other teams in this division who play the same number of games we do have the strength in depth to change line ups every two minutes?
All this has feck all to do with FFP or Eddies lost cash, it is about what a managers primary task is about and Freedman is failing, he should just go.

[LeverEnd]

Fair play Enoch, just wondered as you were quite dismissive of some of the Dougie out posts.
I can't be arsed to look back over old posts which is why I asked.

[SmokinFrazier]

You see it is now’t to do with ‘old Ground’.
I firmly believe that a decent manager or one with half a clue, could train, discipline and organize a group of average players and finish in the top six of a shite league like this one. I would also suggest we have a couple of players that given the right setup are above the average and could have pushed on for a top two-spot.
You need a plan A and a plan B and someone with the nuance as when to switch either via shape or via subs, IMHO Freedman fails on all counts.
Our defending is atrocious at times yet the manager goes chasing Mids or forwards, the first victory in any game is not to lose and build on that, which means a solid well protected defence.
Look at Terry at Chelsea, everyone reckoned he was finished but this season is turning out to be one of his best for a couple of years, why, he has no pace and is vulnerable to players running but he is protected from that unlike our super tanker centre halves.
Freedman buggers about with the starting line up so the ‘poor dears’ are fresh or so he claims.
Quick question, how many other teams in this division who play the same number of games we do have the strength in depth to change line ups every two minutes?
All this has feck all to do with FFP or Eddies lost cash, it is about what a managers primary task is about and Freedman is failing, he should just go.

Yeah, we could talk about past achievements, points per game and whatnot forever but just look at the games. We play awful football. I don't think I've ever seen a team create so few chances and whilst there's a few people who'll say "our players are overrated", they're still good enough to create the odd chance. Our service to strikers, especially when it's a lone striker, is atrocious and it's because we lack a clear attacking structure. Our players pass the ball around well around the centre circle but I don't think they have a clue what everyone else is doing when we're in the opposition final third and it makes for a really unorganised attack that poses very little threat to whoever we're playing. Defensively, we're even worse and some of the mistakes we repeat each week are shocking. Around the time of the Blackburn game back in August, I made a fairly lengthy post criticising the way we defend too deep because it allows for the opposition to shoot at will, like they did in that game, and even though it cost us goals then and has done all season, nothing changed. It was apparent last season and it's the same this year, yet even though it's cost us countless goals, we still defend far too deep. Why? And if myself and other fans can see these, why can't Freedman? Regardless of how talented the players are, everyone in world football can close the ball down and yet we choose to defend too deep. It doesn't work but we stick with it anyway...why?

Speaking of tactics, why Freedman chooses to continue to play one up front is baffling. Our best formation last year was 4-4-2 which we used during our fantastic run of results when we won 10 times, drew twice and lost 3, and yet when it mattered, Freedman changed t 4-5-1 at the end of the season and that decision cost us a spot in the play offs. We started the Blackpool game with one striker and lost the first half 0-2 and then when we switched to 4-4-2, we won the next half 2-0, so that victory was thrown away because Dougie insisted on tinkering with the tactics when it really mattered. It blew up in his face, and he admitted that in the pre-season fan forum thing, but then you'd assume he'd learn from that mistake...surely? Unfortunately not. Despite it being a better formation for us this year, we still continue to play with one striker. When it's forced by injury, that's understandable, but for a large part of the season we could have played N'Gog/Beckford/Davies in a partnership and it'd have suited us a lot more than what we have seen. Why is Freedman so insistent on playing a formation which doesn't work? I couldn't care what formation or style we play in as long as it works and our last two seasons point clearly to one system which works and one which doesn't, yet our clueless manager insists on playing the one which has been a failure.

That poll about whether Freedman should stay or be sacked was surprising to me because I didn't think anything like 50% of people would still want him as our manager. Every time I enter this thread, I hope to see some sort of defence for him or a reason as to why he should stay, and yet there never is that sort of argument. Rather than saying "we're skint" or "our players are useless", how about some solid reasons as to why those people think Freedman has a clue what he's doing?

In short...Laudrup in! N'Gog back in!