Freedman out!

[Prufrock]

No, quoting him would require you to write the words that he actually said, preferably with a source.

You'd then be able to expand on any interpretation of what he actually said that you liked, but at that point you'd have stopped 'quoting' him.

[jaffka]

So anyway, what is this about picking a team for opposition weeks in advance?

[SmokinFrazier]

That is true but it doesn't excuse the poor management we've seen from Freedman. Every club who gets relegated will spend a period of time thinking 'it all went wrong starting here, it's going to be ages before we regroup, things have to get worse before they get better' but that sort of argument simply isn't true. I was reading a Fulham forum last night to see what their fans think of Muelensteen and there were plenty of negative comments along the lines of what you're saying but if they do get relegated, there's no reason why they can't bounce straight back up. Win the first couple of games in the Championship and everything is rosy again because your fans start thinking about promotion, even if it is premature. Some clubs do take years to recover, absolutely, but then look at West Ham, Newcastle or QPR this season. Their fans will have all thought, just like you do, that the club was on a slippery slope and yet they bounced straight back. The key difference between teams who react well to those who continue to decline is good management; not just tactics but man management and an ability to instill confidence and belief.

There was absolutely no reason why we couldn't have got promoted last year. There's no reason we couldn't have got promoted this year either. Had we had a Redknapp or an Allardyce in charge, I firmly believe we'd be in the top 5 now and rather than talking about how we're on some steep, slippery slope, we'd all be getting excited about the possibility of playing Arsenal, City, United and Chelsea next year, and thinking about the possibilities of bringing in £10-15m players. Not every club who goes down is doomed to a fate like Leeds, Southampton or Wolves, and there's no reason we should be one of them when we could, under could management, have been a QPR, Newcastle or West Ham.

Well there are far more examples of clubs that continue to struggle and slip further down.

And personally I don't see that we are in any way analagous to Newcastle (huge fan base and relative to ourselves rich) or money-bags QPR.

The thing is that there aren't that many examples, and even fewer when you look at relatively small clubs like ourselves that have had prolonged periods in the top flight.

And it is quite possible that with an established top manager like Allardyce or Redknapp we'd be doing better. But we couldn't have that sort of manager, because money!

The size of our club and financial situation has nothing to do with how well the players perform and how good the results are. That's what matters to me, not everything that happens off the pitch.

So anyway, what is this about picking a team for opposition weeks in advance?

Freedman was interviewed and mentioned that he tells players in advance whether they'll play 90 minutes for 4 games, 6 games or whatever and then Iles mentioned that Freedman picks his teams weeks in advance. If that sort of thing worked, nobody would care about it happening but it does seem to coincide with some the bad decisions from Freedman, such as with Mortiz. He scored two against Leicester, got substituted and hasn't started a league game since then. Odd.

[jaffka]

its the bit about picking the team weeks in advance that I am querying. how the hell does he do that?

[Wandering Willy]

Balls in a bag.

Pay attention.

[Jugs]

I saw the quotes about him picking the team a few weeks in advance, and it accelerated my growing frustration with him. I was pretty much a consistent backer of Freedman until around December time. The ridiculous decision to keep all his back 4 intact after the Leicester game, yet drop both our goalscorer's, got my ire. Then a few days later I read how he picks his team weeks in advance. So he was always going to drop Moritz regardless of whether he scored two first-half goals against the table-toppers! It beggars belief. I suppose he's now in his 'resting period'. Eagles and Beckford have had similar periods. Beckford had his after hitting form, and then pulled his hammy after he returned. Great decisions. I notice Burnley don't rest their players and look where they are. There was a joke doing the rounds that Dougie dropped Chungy at QPR because he planned it in August.

It leads to another question; had Cravies scored against QPR (he was inches away when he hit the woodwork), would he still have loaned him out two days later? Definitely. Had he scored a hat trick, would he still have been loaned out? It wouldn't surprise me if the answer was yes.

[SmokinFrazier]

its the bit about picking the team weeks in advance that I am querying. how the hell does he do that?

Oh, I'm not sure. I'd be interested to know, actually. You'd think a manager would wait as late as realistically possible in order to build a team which is suited for the opposition. For example if their young, quick left back had an injury and was replaced by a slow 35 year old, you could play someone faster on the right wing instead to target that weakness. Or if an opposition team had both tall centre backs out suspended, maybe you'd play a taller striker and adopt a more direct approach with long balls and crosses? I don't know what his thinking behind it is. Maybe it's he wants to be unpredictable so opposition managers can't target our weaknesses because, unlike most teams, they won't know who is going to play? Although that wouldn't explain sticking with our defence, which is a clear weakness.

[Prufrock]

Or maybe it's not true!

[jaffka]

Or maybe it's not true!

I would certainly hope so.

The source though is apparently Iles.

[Prufrock]

Miles is sometimes useful, but has come out with a lot of bollocks too over the years!

It just seems too nuts to me. I mean clearly things aren't going right but that's just mental. Also seems to be the opposite of what you'd expect. Given that he seems to me to have an obsession with players being in absolute tip top shape or not playing, you'd be surprised if he was picking teams well in advance.

More likely is he has plans to counter teams and the sort of side he'd like to put out, obviously dependant on any number of other factors.

[SmokinFrazier]

Or maybe it's not true!

Are you suggesting Iles made up this direct quote?

“Asked how he could rectify the number of chances his side were currently wasting – Freedman revealed his rather novel approach.

“When you get in and around the box you have got to work on instinct,” he said.

“Instinct is a very difficult thing to coach. But what you can do is try to give players belief that you won’t be dragging them off after 50 or 60 minutes.

“I tell all my strikers ‘you will be playing the next six games at 90 minutes’ or ‘you will play the next four games at 90 minutes,’ so they feel a bit more relaxed.

“You have got to believe in yourself, you have got to believe in the style of play, you have got to believe in your training and you have got to make sure the players believe in you.

“Hopefully, that then turns into goals.'"

[Prufrock]

Firstly you assume that what he says he will do, is what he actually does. Have any of our strikers put together those sort of runs?

Secondly, and more pressingly, how the shit feck does that say that he picks the team six weeks in advance?

[jaffka]

"You will play the next four games"

Pretty conclusive to me.

[bobo the clown]

Or maybe it's not true!

Are you suggesting Iles made up this direct quote?

“Asked how he could rectify the number of chances his side were currently wasting – Freedman revealed his rather novel approach.

“When you get in and around the box you have got to work on instinct,” he said.

“Instinct is a very difficult thing to coach. But what you can do is try to give players belief that you won’t be dragging them off after 50 or 60 minutes.

“I tell all my strikers ‘you will be playing the next six games at 90 minutes’ or ‘you will play the next four games at 90 minutes,’ so they feel a bit more relaxed.

“You have got to believe in yourself, you have got to believe in the style of play, you have got to believe in your training and you have got to make sure the players believe in you.

“Hopefully, that then turns into goals.'"

What's this about picking his team in advance?

Well, that would require us quoting him which, apparently is either open to interpretation, or unfair, or both. Certainly not neither.

I am going to say "I told you so !!"

[Prufrock]

A striker is not 'the team'. That may be what you read into it, fine, but that isn't what he said, and isn't the only thing he could have meant. I reckon if you asked David Moyes who his keeper would be in six games he could tell you. That doesn't mean he picks the team six weeks in advance.
Secondly, even if he had said that, which he didn't, that doesn't mean he actually did it.

[jaffka]

A striker is not 'the team'. That may be what you read into it, fine, but that isn't what he said, and isn't the only thing he could have meant. I reckon if you asked David Moyes who his keeper would be in six games he could tell you. That doesn't mean he picks the team six weeks in advance.
Secondly, even if he had said that, which he didn't, that doesn't mean he actually did it.

Thanks, I will make my own mind up

[SmokinFrazier]

Firstly you assume that what he says he will do, is what he actually does. Have any of our strikers put together those sort of runs?

Secondly, and more pressingly, how the shit feck does that say that he picks the team six weeks in advance?

If he doesn't do it, why would he say it? Managers lie about potential signings, what tactics they'll play and things like that, but what possible benefit could come from saying something like that? His record does suggest there's some truth in it because Beckford started started 9 Championship games in a row, N'Gog started in 6 consecutive league games and Mason started in 5 games out of 6 and was a sub in the other one.

A striker is not 'the team'. That may be what you read into it, fine, but that isn't what he said, and isn't the only thing he could have meant. I reckon if you asked David Moyes who his keeper would be in six games he could tell you. That doesn't mean he picks the team six weeks in advance.

He was being asked about his strikers not scoring so when answering, he specifically mentioned his strikers. It's logical to assume that if the question was "how do you keep clean sheets?" he'd answer "I tell all my defenders they'll play the next 6 games".

[Prufrock]

Good! People should make their own minds up, and be free to read whatever crazy-ass 'I killed John Lennon' shit they want into it. As long as people don't go around saying he said stuff he didn't say.

I'm quite happy to take what he said as meaning 'I tell my strikers they'll get a run of games so they'll know I back them and to give them confidence', rather than 'I know the XI I'll put out against any team six weeks in advance'.

[Prufrock]

Firstly you assume that what he says he will do, is what he actually does. Have any of our strikers put together those sort of runs?

Secondly, and more pressingly, how the shit feck does that say that he picks the team six weeks in advance?

If he doesn't do it, why would he say it? Managers lie about potential signings, what tactics they'll play and things like that, but what possible benefit could come from saying something like that? His record does suggest there's some truth in it because Beckford started started 9 Championship games in a row, N'Gog started in 6 consecutive league games and Mason started in 5 games out of 6 and was a sub in the other one.

A striker is not 'the team'. That may be what you read into it, fine, but that isn't what he said, and isn't the only thing he could have meant. I reckon if you asked David Moyes who his keeper would be in six games he could tell you. That doesn't mean he picks the team six weeks in advance.

He was being asked about his strikers not scoring so when answering, he specifically mentioned his strikers. It's logical to assume that if the question was "how do you keep clean sheets?" he'd answer "I tell all my defenders they'll play the next 6 games".

1) There are all sorts of reasons people say things. The important thing is 'has he done it?' I'm surprised at those numbers tbf, I thought we'd been a lot more chop and change-y. But good, we're talking about what he has done. Whilst I can see the reasoning in giving strikers a run of games, it seems a daft idea to me and clearly wasn't working with Mason in particular. Minus points for DF.

2) I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Logic doesn't come into that. You can think that's what he would have said if you want, but there is no way you can argue that 'logically' he would have said he tells his defenders they'll play the next six. You just can't. Less so can you say he did say it, or that he said he picks the teams six weeks in advance. You can't even say Iles said that (although you did) because you then actually quoted Iles not saying that at all!

[bobo the clown]

Start smoking again Pru. Seriously.


It'd be far better gor our health.