Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Thanks for invaluable insight, Worthy. I like to ask simple questions even if they don't have simple answers. Here's another: do we know what assets the Blumarble loan is secured against?

No. I like to give simple answers to complex questions.

It's a nice knack to have

[TANGODANCER]

Whichever way it pans, as Worthy says, it doesn't look very good. Getting promoted might be step one to a first rung on the ladder but we surely need a saviour..

[Peter Thompson]

Good question someone has posted on another forum.

If KA didn't put any funds in initially and has only recently put in these interest free loans to keep the club going over the past few months (which he has also apparently since taken back out), how did he get 47.5% of the shareholding ?

He must have put some money in to be given half of the club back in March 2016

Or did he put in £3.5M initially at the time of the takeover (which he's had back) and these £800k a month recent loans are additional and have not been replayed yet and are not even covered in the accounts ?

[DJBlu]

Good question someone has posted on another forum.

If KA didn't put any funds in initially and has only recently put in these interest free loans to keep the club going over the past few months (which he has also apparently since taken back out), how did he get 47.5% of the shareholding ?

He must have put some money in to be given half of the club back in March 2016

Or did he put in £3.5M initially at the time of the takeover (which he's had back) and these £800k a month recent loans are additional and have not been replayed yet and are not even covered in the accounts ?

The club was bought for £1. 47.5p KA, 47.5p DH. 5p A.Nother

[Tombwfc]

Good question someone has posted on another forum.

If KA didn't put any funds in initially and has only recently put in these interest free loans to keep the club going over the past few months (which he has also apparently since taken back out), how did he get 47.5% of the shareholding ?

He must have put some money in to be given half of the club back in March 2016

Or did he put in £3.5M initially at the time of the takeover (which he's had back) and these £800k a month recent loans are additional and have not been replayed yet and are not even covered in the accounts ?

Even though the accounts are however long overdue, most of what's said in the associated statements references our current position.

To help the Group meet its liabilities as they fall due, the Chairman has also provided short term working capital injections totalling £3.5million. No interest has been charged on these balances, and at the time of approval of these financial statements, the balance owed to the Chairman is £nil.

I don't believe I've seen any actual suggestion as to how much Ken has put in at a time, or indeed the timing of these instalments, but it's £3.5m in and £3.5m out as of February 2017.

My interpretation was that they bought the club, using the BluMarble loan as a cash injection, and agreed a plan (with the FL) for them to both put money in, which hasn't happened beyond Ken's short-term loans.

[Tombwfc]

King Ken spoke to a passionate, if slightly repetitive Jack Dearden (This can't go on Ken!? Can this go on Ken!? Surely what is happening now must not be allowed to continue Ken!?) before the game yesterday. Not masses of new information, although he does say that the ST's projections are bullshit and nigh on directly blames them for someone not wanting to hold an event at the Macron.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sm96p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Worthy4England]

Good question someone has posted on another forum.

If KA didn't put any funds in initially and has only recently put in these interest free loans to keep the club going over the past few months (which he has also apparently since taken back out), how did he get 47.5% of the shareholding ?

He must have put some money in to be given half of the club back in March 2016

Or did he put in £3.5M initially at the time of the takeover (which he's had back) and these £800k a month recent loans are additional and have not been replayed yet and are not even covered in the accounts ?

The club was bought for £1. 47.5p KA, 47.5p DH. 5p A.Nother

Is the correct answer. They'll probably end up arguing about whose quid it actually was, at some point.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I don't believe I've seen any actual suggestion as to how much Ken has put in at a time, or indeed the timing of these instalments, but it's £3.5m in and £3.5m out as of February 2017.

A Marc Iles piece yesterday divides it up.

...accounting information now proves he has put in £700,000 on five occasions, withdrawing the same amount when the cash-flow allowed.

Welcome as it is, this is somewhat less impressive. If I lend you a tenner five times and you repay me each time, have a lent you a tenner or 50 quid?

[Worthy4England]

King Ken spoke to a passionate, if slightly repetitive Jack Dearden (This can't go on Ken!? Can this go on Ken!? Surely what is happening now must not be allowed to continue Ken!?) before the game yesterday. Not masses of new information, although he does say that the ST's projections are bullshit and nigh on directly blames them for someone not wanting to hold an event at the Macron.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sm96p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ken, I just have to tell you no Bolton Wanderers fans care about Leicester....

Priceless.

[palindromeofbolton]

If we are losing £800k per month (or £11m per annum as stated in the accounts, so maybe £900k per month??) and neither KA nor DH have put any money into the club on a permanent basis, this means that the reason we are still trading is roughly the PBP Loan, plus Holding and Clough. But it seems we are running out of things to sell....

And even a massive, cloth-cutting clearout exercise in the summer would probably only half the monthly losses - if that, given we'd have to bring in some (cheaper) replacements.

Aye, sadly so. According to those figures in the tabloids, we've got Davies on 18kpw, Spearing on 18, Trotter on 11, Derik on 10, Dervite on 9, Moxey on 8.5 and Madine on 8 all out of contract this summer. That's £82,500 a week, or about £357,000 a month.

Even if for argument's sake you imagine we can find some suckers to rid us of Pratley's £14kpw (payable until June 2018) and Amos's £16kpw (to June 2019), that's still only £112,500 a week or £487,500 a month.

You could also get rid of some other players coming to the end of their contracts this summer - Wilson and Clayton from previous regimes, Wheater and Buxton from this – but we're then getting into diminishing returns. And as you say, we'd need replacements, because after the theoretical cloth-cutting explained above our squad would be Howard, Alnwick, Beevers, Chris Taylor, Proctor, Wilkinson, Vela and kids.

Yes, we gave out some ridiculous contracts, but that is now literally only half the problem.

Just trying to work out how promotion would help.

Haven't found anything cast iron, but this suggests we'd get £4m more in Premier League TV handouts:
http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/ ... st-tv-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's actually quite a chunk towards an £11m shortfall.

Guess there will be some sort of improvement in sponsorship and advertising revenues, while an extra 1,000 at each match would mean - very roughly an extra £0.5m?

Our current average attendance this season has been just over 14k:
http://www.european-football-statistics ... aveeng.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last season it was just over 15k (the lowest since moving from Burnden btw):
http://www.european-football-statistics ... b/bolw.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If we get that 1k back, that's 23 matches x £20 (roughly, for argument's sake, though STs, concessions, family tickets probably lowers the average) x 1,000 = 460,000, so maybe half a mil after pie purchases?

[Nicko58]

If we are losing £800k per month (or £11m per annum as stated in the accounts, so maybe £900k per month??) and neither KA nor DH have put any money into the club on a permanent basis, this means that the reason we are still trading is roughly the PBP Loan, plus Holding and Clough. But it seems we are running out of things to sell....

And even a massive, cloth-cutting clearout exercise in the summer would probably only half the monthly losses - if that, given we'd have to bring in some (cheaper) replacements.

Aye, sadly so. According to those figures in the tabloids, we've got Davies on 18kpw, Spearing on 18, Trotter on 11, Derik on 10, Dervite on 9, Moxey on 8.5 and Madine on 8 all out of contract this summer. That's £82,500 a week, or about £357,000 a month.

Even if for argument's sake you imagine we can find some suckers to rid us of Pratley's £14kpw (payable until June 2018) and Amos's £16kpw (to June 2019), that's still only £112,500 a week or £487,500 a month.

You could also get rid of some other players coming to the end of their contracts this summer - Wilson and Clayton from previous regimes, Wheater and Buxton from this – but we're then getting into diminishing returns. And as you say, we'd need replacements, because after the theoretical cloth-cutting explained above our squad would be Howard, Alnwick, Beevers, Chris Taylor, Proctor, Wilkinson, Vela and kids.

Yes, we gave out some ridiculous contracts, but that is now literally only half the problem.

Just trying to work out how promotion would help.

Haven't found anything cast iron, but this suggests we'd get £4m more in Premier League TV handouts:
http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/ ... st-tv-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's actually quite a chunk towards an £11m shortfall.

Guess there will be some sort of improvement in sponsorship and advertising revenues, while an extra 1,000 at each match would mean - very roughly an extra £0.5m?

Our current average attendance this season has been just over 14k:
http://www.european-football-statistics ... aveeng.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last season it was just over 15k (the lowest since moving from Burnden btw):
http://www.european-football-statistics ... b/bolw.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If we get that 1k back, that's 23 matches x £20 (roughly, for argument's sake, though STs, concessions, family tickets probably lowers the average) x 1,000 = 460,000, so maybe half a mil after pie purchases?

Our average ticket price is apparently about £8.50, although I don't know whether that's the average price of the tickets as listed or whether it's the average income generated per ticket sold. Nevertheless, I'd still say that your calculations might be little on the optimistic side unfortunately. Promotion would certainly provide a much welcome boost to the coffers, though.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The single biggest bonus of promotion would be the massively increased saleability of the club.

[Tombwfc]

I don't believe I've seen any actual suggestion as to how much Ken has put in at a time, or indeed the timing of these instalments, but it's £3.5m in and £3.5m out as of February 2017.

A Marc Iles piece yesterday divides it up.

...accounting information now proves he has put in £700,000 on five occasions, withdrawing the same amount when the cash-flow allowed.

Welcome as it is, this is somewhat less impressive. If I lend you a tenner five times and you repay me each time, have a lent you a tenner or 50 quid?

That's what I was wondering - in the GMR interview he says the 700,000 figure is wrong and that the money has been put in various installments ranging between £350k and £1.5mil.

[Lord Kangana]

In practice then, surely as of this moment he's lent us nowt, as we're all square?

[Gary the Enfield]

In practice then, surely as of this moment he's lent us nowt, as we're all square?

And yet if he hadn't, we wouldn't have a club now to argue the toss over.

It's a quandary. Like Schrödinger's cat.

[TANGODANCER]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... om_battle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

More from Ken in the BN.

[BWFC_Insane]

From Ken's article in the paper today (and from his interview on radio Manc which the article is a transcript of) this bit jumped out at me:

Until Dean resolves that issue it not something where I would put money in and not take it out because I only make BluMarble’s position more secure than mine or the club’s.

Is this essentially saying that BluMarble think they own a portion of the club now? Not sure how else to read that.

[Bruce Rioja]

From Ken's article in the paper today (and from his interview on radio Manc which the article is a transcript of) this bit jumped out at me:

Until Dean resolves that issue it not something where I would put money in and not take it out because I only make BluMarble’s position more secure than mine or the club’s.

Is this essentially saying that BluMarble think they own a portion of the club now? Not sure how else to read that.

I could be hopelessly wrong here (and please feel free to enlighten me) but my take on it is that Holdsworth has secured his loan by using the club as security whereas Anderson reckons that he wasn't in a position to be able to do that and that it's a non-starter.

[BWFC_Insane]

From Ken's article in the paper today (and from his interview on radio Manc which the article is a transcript of) this bit jumped out at me:

Until Dean resolves that issue it not something where I would put money in and not take it out because I only make BluMarble’s position more secure than mine or the club’s.

Is this essentially saying that BluMarble think they own a portion of the club now? Not sure how else to read that.

I could be hopelessly wrong here (and please feel free to enlighten me) but my take on it is that Holdsworth has secured his loan by using the club as security whereas Anderson reckons that he wasn't in a position to be able to do that and that it's a non-starter.

Feck knows. I think broadly that is it. Though the club representatives signed the deal. I suspect Anderson is claiming that the information in the "side agreement" wasn't made available to the club. And only Deano knew. And had they known they wouldn't have signed it? I honestly do not know.

The question is, given Deano/Sports Shield haven't made repayments is, what claim do BM have over club assets? And what exactly was in the "side agreement".