Freedman out!

[Enoch]

I did, previous page.

You just ignore me !!!

Who the last poster is certainly influences whether I read it.

[StaffsTrotter]

yep and whats the outcome of all this wheeling and dealing and re-setting of fans expectations - seems to me we are establishing our place as a lower mid table championship team playing a pretty turgid style of football

The outcome is unknown, but the driver is to try and ensure the club runs within it's means. As in it stops spending tens of millions more every year than it can afford.....

I understand the financial realities which will get worse the longer out of the prem, the longer we aren't looking like we will challenge for anything and the dirger the football on offer. Still doesn't make me think DF has done anything other than squander the relative wealth of resources he inherited and has had at his disposal.

[bobo the clown]

I did, previous page.

You just ignore me !!!

Who the last poster is certainly influences whether I read it.

Touché

[thebish]

yep and whats the outcome of all this wheeling and dealing and re-setting of fans expectations - seems to me we are establishing our place as a lower mid table championship team playing a pretty turgid style of football

The outcome is unknown, but the driver is to try and ensure the club runs within it's means. As in it stops spending tens of millions more every year than it can afford.....

I understand the financial realities which will get worse the longer out of the prem, the longer we aren't looking like we will challenge for anything and the dirger the football on offer. Still doesn't make me think DF has done anything other than squander the relative wealth of resources he inherited and has had at his disposal.

maybe so - but they also got massively worse while we were IN the Prem... no?

[Bruce Rioja]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree. That little list is just off the top of my head as I'm at work. My case sucks? Yeah OK, we don't need to be more focused when recruiting as we still have cash to burn? Give your head a shake.

I have shaken my head - thanks!

it still seems to me - even after a shaking - that however "focused" you want us to be - dougie's recruitment record is fairly decent - and will probably continue to be so... I'm not sure what you mean by being more "focused" in this context or how that would somehow magically guarantee that the normal failure rate for transfer transactions was suddenly overcome... care to explain?

No, no. Let's, how did you put it, fish in turd hoping to unearth the odd gem? Brilliant.

fishing in turd wasn't a suggestion - it was simply a description of the reality we face. that's the "given" - it's where we are.

Where are you suggesting we go shopping for players other than the bargain basement? we have no cash - didn't you notice?? The reality of the situation is that we are not shopping for the Gareth Bales of this world - we're in Aldi, not Waitrose... there's good stuff to be had from Aldi - as you and I both know - but it takes some unearthing from amongst the crud... i don't think Dougie's doing a bad job at unearthing some good stuff...

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you? Or maybe you do. IT'S PRECISELY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT NO fecking MONEY THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO WASTE ANY ON HIT AND HOPES. IS ANY OF THIS GETTING THROUGH? Or, as I suspect, are you just trying to amuse yourself by being patronising ?
If one's reduced to shopping at Aldi then that in itself signifies the need for gresater prudence. I really can't put it any plainer than that.

[StaffsTrotter]

yep and whats the outcome of all this wheeling and dealing and re-setting of fans expectations - seems to me we are establishing our place as a lower mid table championship team playing a pretty turgid style of football

hmmm... IIRC - many of our most successful years involved a large degree of turgidity!

Really. Trying to not be too misty eyed, but I'd say only a period during megsons time, matched what we are currently witnessing in terms of the default nature of its turgidity.

did you miss the allardyce years?? it wasn't all JJ and Youri!

Nope. Seem to remember lots of good cup runs, promotion & relegation dogfights - always something to play for, even if some of the matches were turgid, more weren't. When I listened to Allardyce, I understood and usually agreed with him. I watched the team and could see they were organised & could see what they were trying to do. Winning more often than not helped, but putting in perfomances that deserved to win did as well. The manager was often lauded by his players and peers for his man management. JJ & Youri were the cherries on top

[Prufrock]

And to continue to wear out this hackneyed old metaphor ( ) have you never bought anything from Aldi which looked good but turned out to be shit?

There's not a single manager around who hasn't wasted money on shite. There's a Kleberson and Djemba-Djemba for every manager. The managers don't sign shit ones on purpose. They always think they're good ones at the time.

I happen to think he's done pretty well with his signings, and I think the numbers for and against bear that out. I can see someone taking the opposite view, but I can't really see how anyone expects him to only buy players who turn out to be good.

[thebish]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

[thebish]

Nope. Seem to remember lots of good cup runs, promotion & relegation dogfights - always something to play for,

aye... and I think it is true that football seems less turgid when you are winning and have summat to play for... that's a different matter... LOTS of it was just as turgid (but seemed less so because Sam knew how to play turgid and win!)

[Bruce Rioja]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

You see what you want.

[StaffsTrotter]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

poor old dougie - having to feed out of the waste bins at the back of tescos - we should be thankful we've stayed up

[thebish]

IT'S PRECISELY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT NO fecking MONEY THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO WASTE ANY ON HIT AND HOPES. IS ANY OF THIS GETTING THROUGH? Or, as I suspect, are you just trying to amuse yourself by being patronising ?
If one's reduced to shopping at Aldi then that in itself signifies the need for gresater prudence. I really can't put it any plainer than that.

seriously - chill!

can you explain what you mean by being more "prudent" - or as you put it before "more focussed" when you are buying players? what does that actually mean in practice? Dougie is hardly being wasteful - and your idea that he just buys at random without thinking is just hyperbole, surely?

all i am saying is that however prudent or "focussed" you are - however hard you try - there is a natural and normal failure rate for this kind of transaction - there always has been and always will be. All the evidence I can see suggests that dougie is on the right side of that failure rate... he gets it right more than I'd expect...

what is it that you suggest he does to up his success rate?

it really kinda sounds like you would judge him a failure unless every one of his signings turns out to be a stunner...

not many have turned out to be duffers - so i reckon he's not doing badly on that front.

now - what he does with them when he gets them home from the shop - that's a different story...

[thebish]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

poor old dougie - having to feed out of the waste bins at the back of tescos - we should be thankful we've stayed up

nobody is saying "poor old dougie" (except you!) - just that he isn't THAT bad at recruiting players. pretty non-controversial I'd have thought...

[thebish]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

You see what you want.

you actually think that dougie randomly buys players in the hope that it'll all turn out? you genuinely think that? really?

if that's the case - then he's shown a remarkable amount of luck, I'd say.

[Enoch]

You see what you want.

I think we can all be tarred with that particular brush to one degree or another.

[StaffsTrotter]

Nope. Seem to remember lots of good cup runs, promotion & relegation dogfights - always something to play for,

aye... and I think it is true that football seems less turgid when you are winning and have summat to play for... that's a different matter... LOTS of it was just as turgid (but seemed less so because Sam knew how to play turgid and win!)

your turgidometer must be differently calibrated to mine.
How many BWFC matches have you attended under the DF reign ? and
How many have we played well & dominated /deserved to win (irrespective of result) ?

[Bruce Rioja]

Bish. I've made my position clear so stop trolling, it's both boring and annoying. Now, unlike you clearly, I have work to do which I really need to concentrate on and you're proving a distraction.

[thebish]

Nope. Seem to remember lots of good cup runs, promotion & relegation dogfights - always something to play for,

aye... and I think it is true that football seems less turgid when you are winning and have summat to play for... that's a different matter... LOTS of it was just as turgid (but seemed less so because Sam knew how to play turgid and win!)

your turgidometer must be differently calibrated to mine.
How many BWFC matches have you attended under the DF reign ? and
How many have we played well & dominated /deserved to win (irrespective of result) ?

ooh.. ten or a dozen or so? - some we have dominated - others not..

watching under sam - some we dominated - others we didn't.. some we deserved to win, others we didn't.. i DO remember scoring and then putting everyone behind the ball for the last 25mins desperately trying to hang on - and then conceding in the last minute... I do remember hoooofing it up to KD...

you never remember it as turgid, though, when you are winning or being successful..

me - I'm not a purist - if I wanted that, maybe I'd have become an arsenal fan... i don't really expect to be "entertained" by Bolton - so maybe it doesn't matter as much to me... i do like winning though... and I do like the end of a season to mean summat - either relegation fight or promotion push... and I do like a cup run. it's the absence of those things that make life less worth living - not our particular style of play...

[thebish]

Bish. I've made my position clear so stop trolling, it's both boring and annoying. Now, unlike you clearly, I have work to do which I really need to concentrate on and you're proving a distraction.

whatever... nobody forces you to write on here....

(if you imagine that another person honestly and reasonably disagreeing with you without resorting to name-calling or abuse in a discussion on a football forum amounts somehow to "trolling" - (imagine! the very idea that anyone might have a different view!) - then, good luck to you and enjoy your day.)

[StaffsTrotter]

For feck's sake. I know exactly where we're shopping, but one doesn't simply go into Aldi and buy randomly in the hope that you'll pick up something suitable do you?

no - but nor do I see any evidence at all that that is what Dougie is doing.

what I DO see is that he doesn't seem to have done badly given the housekeeping money that he has to spend.

poor old dougie - having to feed out of the waste bins at the back of tescos - we should be thankful we've stayed up

nobody is saying "poor old dougie" (except you!) - just that he isn't THAT bad at recruiting players. pretty non-controversial I'd have thought...

Because of course you wouldn't say anything controversial.

Whether he's any good at recruiting players depends on how you measure it - to me most are bog standard champ'ship players. They have put us into mid table having seen off a threat of going down. Does anyone think we will challenge to go up next year ? Are any of the new players he's brought in likely to have a fantastic re-sale value and thus help the club that way ?