Freedman out!

[thebish]

Whether he's any good at recruiting players depends on how you measure it - to me most are bog standard champ'ship players. They have put us into mid table having seen off a threat of going down. Does anyone think we will challenge to go up next year ? Are any of the new players he's brought in likely to have a fantastic re-sale value and thus help the club that way ?

aye - it does... plenty of teams have gone up with "bog standard" nowt-special looking players - so can we under the right management... we'll see, i guess.. QPR have a galaxy of expensive non bog-standard championship players - but won't finish in the top two... (or - don't look certain to!)

dunno about resale value - we've never really been that good at resale value have we...

i happen to think we will challenge to go up next year - I realise I am in a minority - but I do...

do you really think it is THAT controversial or trolling to suggest that dougie isn't all that bad at recruitment??

plenty of more controversial ideas than that have been spouted on here!

[Bruce Rioja]

Bish. I've made my position clear so stop trolling, it's both boring and annoying. Now, unlike you clearly, I have work to do which I really need to concentrate on and you're proving a distraction.

whatever... nobody forces you to write on here....

(if you imagine that another person honestly and reasonably disagreeing with you without resorting to name-calling or abuse in a discussion on a football forum amounts somehow to "trolling" - (imagine! the very idea that anyone might have a different view!) - then, good luck to you and enjoy your day.)

I don't. What I object to is trolls like you! Imagine that someone makes their point as plain as day, even saying that we'll have to agree to disagree, but you couldn't accept it and have to keep going at it from every conceivable angle? Imagine that. Imagine.

Enjoy your afternoon trolling the internet.

[thebish]

is it your time of the month????

[BWFC_Insane]

me - I'm not a purist - if I wanted that, maybe I'd have become an arsenal fan... i don't really expect to be "entertained" by Bolton - so maybe it doesn't matter as much to me... i do like winning though... and I do like the end of a season to mean summat - either relegation fight or promotion push... and I do like a cup run. it's the absence of those things that make life less worth living - not our particular style of play...

This nails it IMO.

What people want is to watch a team they perceive is "successful". It is why very few complained about Sam's style or tactics for his first 5 or so seasons here because each season was broadly seen as a success and then later in that spell massively seen as a success.

But people did complain towards the end of Sam's time here. On this very forum there were people moaning. And why? Because we'd been top 6, been in Europe and making each season more successful than the last from a results view was almost impossible. I've said it before we hit the glass ceiling and then people suddenly began complaing about "the style, the entertainment" etc etc.

When Coyle was manager he played 4-4-2 almost exhaustively and definitely always looked to attack teams. Whether we managed to or not is an aside. But in that season where we got demolished every game, especially at the start few people if any said, "well at least we're playing nice open football and seeing games with lots of goals in". Because nobody cared that we had two up front and two wingers when we were being battered every week.

People moaned about the style of play under Megson because they (wrongly) used a measure of where we were a season or two back to gauge success and because we were in the bottom half suddenly they decided we weren't successful. Even if we'd played what was perceived to be an attractive style of football, it wouldn't have mattered because the perception was we weren't successful. Had Megson taken over as manager half way through a season where we were in the premiership for the first time and bottom and kept us up with the EXACT same football, people would have been elated and jumping for joy.

I notice Burnley went to Barnsley mid week scored in the 7th minute and saw the game out 1-0. I bet their fans were absolutely jubilant and loving it. The context of results, perception of success and relative levels of success affects it more than the style of football on show.

Sure everyone wants success with the most attractive, silky, entertaining football on offer. Obviously. But if we'd played the most open and entertaining attacking football possible this season, but still had 51 points at this stage, people would most definitely not be happy and still would be calling for the manager to go.

IMHO of course.

[jaffka]

me - I'm not a purist - if I wanted that, maybe I'd have become an arsenal fan... i don't really expect to be "entertained" by Bolton - so maybe it doesn't matter as much to me... i do like winning though... and I do like the end of a season to mean summat - either relegation fight or promotion push... and I do like a cup run. it's the absence of those things that make life less worth living - not our particular style of play...

This nails it IMO.

What people want is to watch a team they perceive is "successful". It is why very few complained about Sam's style or tactics for his first 5 or so seasons here because each season was broadly seen as a success and then later in that spell massively seen as a success.

But people did complain towards the end of Sam's time here. On this very forum there were people moaning. And why? Because we'd been top 6, been in Europe and making each season more successful than the last from a results view was almost impossible. I've said it before we hit the glass ceiling and then people suddenly began complaing about "the style, the entertainment" etc etc.

When Coyle was manager he played 4-4-2 almost exhaustively and definitely always looked to attack teams. Whether we managed to or not is an aside. But in that season where we got demolished every game, especially at the start few people if any said, "well at least we're playing nice open football and seeing games with lots of goals in". Because nobody cared that we had two up front and two wingers when we were being battered every week.

People moaned about the style of play under Megson because they (wrongly) used a measure of where we were a season or two back to gauge success and because we were in the bottom half suddenly they decided we weren't successful. Even if we'd played what was perceived to be an attractive style of football, it wouldn't have mattered because the perception was we weren't successful. Had Megson taken over as manager half way through a season where we were in the premiership for the first time and bottom and kept us up with the EXACT same football, people would have been elated and jumping for joy.

I notice Burnley went to Barnsley mid week scored in the 7th minute and saw the game out 1-0. I bet their fans were absolutely jubilant and loving it. The context of results, perception of success and relative levels of success affects it more than the style of football on show.

Sure everyone wants success with the most attractive, silky, entertaining football on offer. Obviously. But if we'd played the most open and entertaining attacking football possible this season, but still had 51 points at this stage, people would most definitely not be happy and still would be calling for the manager to go.

IMHO of course.

There you go bish, do you agree with all of that?

[LeverEnd]

IT'S PRECISELY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT NO fecking MONEY THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO WASTE ANY ON HIT AND HOPES. IS ANY OF THIS GETTING THROUGH? Or, as I suspect, are you just trying to amuse yourself by being patronising ?
If one's reduced to shopping at Aldi then that in itself signifies the need for gresater prudence. I really can't put it any plainer than that.

seriously - chill!

can you explain what you mean by being more "prudent" - or as you put it before "more focussed" when you are buying players? what does that actually mean in practice? Dougie is hardly being wasteful - and your idea that he just buys at random without thinking is just hyperbole, surely?

all i am saying is that however prudent or "focussed" you are - however hard you try - there is a natural and normal failure rate for this kind of transaction - there always has been and always will be. All the evidence I can see suggests that dougie is on the right side of that failure rate... he gets it right more than I'd expect...

what is it that you suggest he does to up his success rate?

it really kinda sounds like you would judge him a failure unless every one of his signings turns out to be a stunner...

not many have turned out to be duffers - so i reckon he's not doing badly on that front.

now - what he does with them when he gets them home from the shop - that's a different story...

This nails it for me. No qualms about the majority of his signings, even Trotter who may turn out to be OK and had form at this level previously.
I look at our squad though and wonder how the feck we're in the position we're in.

[jonnycooper]

Simples! Because the squad was just strolling along'instead of putting the shift in that is required in this division.Some weren't arsed as they were still jumping in their Overfinch Range Rovers once they finished training.And others weren't as good as the press had them believe!We are now looking for gems in the lower league'instead of World Cup winning players looking for 1 last big payday to top up the retirement in their 30s fund!

[LeverEnd]

Simples! Because the squad was just strolling along'instead of putting the shift in that is required in this division.Some weren't arsed as they were still jumping in their Overfinch Range Rovers once they finished training.And others weren't as good as the press had them believe!We are now looking for gems in the lower league'instead of World Cup winning players looking for 1 last big payday to top up the retirement in their 30s fund!

We've all been over this loads and you are right about some of the players. However that doesn't explain him bringing in players he apparently wants and rates and still not getting results because he's either benched them or isn't using them right.

Anyway he's survived 200 pages of this thread and isn't going anywhere.

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to which page the announcement of his eventual departure will break on? I'll get us started with 304. We can then look back to page 200 for our predictions and poke fun at one another for shits and giggles. Will be spiffing.

[jonnycooper]

I suggest this thread be locked and finished.As a sort of Tribute to Dougies resilience in the face of adversity.He reads these forums but has constantly chose to do things [Dougies way]despite this and other BWFC forums calling for his head,he has just turned around and said [feck that lot] I know what I,m doing/watch their posts when my plan comes together.

[Always hopeful]

Simples! Because the squad was just strolling along'instead of putting the shift in that is required in this division.Some weren't arsed as they were still jumping in their Overfinch Range Rovers once they finished training.And others weren't as good as the press had them believe!We are now looking for gems in the lower league'instead of World Cup winning players looking for 1 last big payday to top up the retirement in their 30s fund!

We've all been over this loads and you are right about some of the players. However that doesn't explain him bringing in players he apparently wants and rates and still not getting results because he's either benched them or isn't using them right.

Anyway he's survived 200 pages of this thread and isn't going anywhere.

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to which page the announcement of his eventual departure will break on? I'll get us started with 304. We can then look back to page 200 for our predictions and poke fun at one another for shits and giggles. Will be spiffing.

389

[Little Green Man]

Definitely 246

[Enoch]

Definitely 246

I'll lay that for a tenner!

[Harry Genshaw]

11788. We'll be laughing at how naive we were at page 200 little knowing that he was to lead us to the Champions league just 3 years later

[bobo the clown]

11788. We'll be laughing at how naive we were at page 200 little knowing that he was to lead us to the Champions league just 3 years later

That's the attitude.

Lunacy is a strong defence for many. many things H.

[TonyDomingos]

11788. We'll be laughing at how naive we were at page 200 little knowing that he was to lead us to the Champions league just 3 years later

I see a couple of teams that couldn't beat us not so long ago are now in the Chumps League semis. What could have been will come to pass under our glorious leader!

[malcd1]

11788. We'll be laughing at how naive we were at page 200 little knowing that he was to lead us to the Champions league just 3 years later

I see a couple of teams that couldn't beat us not so long ago are now in the Chumps League semis. What could have been will come to pass under our glorious leader!

You sounds like a North Korean.

[TANGODANCER]

11788. We'll be laughing at how naive we were at page 200 little knowing that he was to lead us to the Champions league just 3 years later

I see a couple of teams that couldn't beat us not so long ago are now in the Chumps League semis. What could have been will come to pass under our glorious leader!

You sounds like a North Korean.

I can't believe Dougy has given the players a choice of just two haircuts: A Kim Jong Eagle flapper or a Zat Knight Nepales Holy Man krishna chop. Cruelty, it is, cruelty.

[SmokinFrazier]

He's probably done enough to warrant keeping hold off to see if we can start next season where we seem to be leaving off this..

But 8 games for me. If we're bottom 6/8, he can get to feck (again).

Again the question comes down to, he's shown that he knows the sorts of players we need.

Danns, Jutkiewicz, Mason and to a lesser degree Hutton have all made very decent impacts.

If he's allowed and/or able to sign those players or equivalents I'd be pretty confident for next season.

But if not then I'd be worried whoever was in charge. We don't have money to splash I get that, but the loanees have shown us the sort of characters required, and bringing some of those (ideally all) in next season is essential.

Equally if he goes off and signs more with the Beckford character then he can get lost, because that was a mistake with our squad and one that shouldn't be repeated.

Are they players we need or just the only sort of players Freedman can get the best out of? Maybe if we had a better manager, we'd be able to see Davies, Eagles and Moritz at their best instead. Those you listed are surely a dream to work with for a limited manager because of their workrate.

Eh? Moritz was with Freedman at Palace. Clearly he hasn't got a problem getting the best out of him.

Eagles is gone irrespective of the manager.

Nothing wrong with Davies, but you need the players in there to let him play and Dougie has managed to get some great stuff out of him when he was fit.

Teams that are promoted from this division all tend to have plenty of graft mixed with some flair and a goal scorer or two. It is the team we've put out the past few months that is the right sort of mix.

Jutkiewicz and Mason are not limited players at all. They just have the right mix of qualities that helps you out at this level. Danns is hardly just a workhorse either.

But they all work hard, and play for the team. Qualities that are essential.

What does Moritz being a Freedman player at Palace have to do with anything? He's scored 4 goals in 6 starts, including two against the best side in the league who couldn't handle him, yet then he got dropped. Since that game, and not including time out with injury, he's played a mere 241 minutes, averaging at 21 minutes per game, when he was available to play for 1350 minutes. He is clearly being underutilised at Bolton.

And yeah, teams at every level need a mix of grafters and those with ability. However, we don't have the right mix. A midfield of Spearing, Medo, Davies, Danns and then Mason and Jutkiewicz up front is not skilled enough, and players like Eagles, Moritz, Hall and Chungy should be in the mix too because we lack creative spark. The problem is, under Freedman, those players are restricted by his uncreative, basic style of football which doesn't know how to get the most out of talented footballers and the grafters are the ones who end up shining. I don't have an issue with those players either but I don't like this idea of getting rid of quality to bring in workrate.

[LeverEnd]

[What does Moritz being a Freedman player at Palace have to do with anything? He's scored 4 goals in 6 starts, including two against the best side in the league who couldn't handle him, yet then he got dropped. Since that game, and not including time out with injury, he's played a mere 241 minutes, averaging at 21 minutes per game, when he was available to play for 1350 minutes. He is clearly being underutilised at Bolton.

And yeah, teams at every level need a mix of grafters and those with ability. However, we don't have the right mix. A midfield of Spearing, Medo, Davies, Danns and then Mason and Jutkiewicz up front is not skilled enough, and players like Eagles, Moritz, Hall and Chungy should be in the mix too because we lack creative spark. The problem is, under Freedman, those players are restricted by his uncreative, basic style of football which doesn't know how to get the most out of talented footballers and the grafters are the ones who end up shining. I don't have an issue with those players either but I don't like this idea of getting rid of quality to bring in workrate.

You could have summed all that up by just posting minutes Trotter has played in the last 5 games and minutes Moritz has played. To be fair to Dougie we have done pretty well in those games, but if I were Moritz this one stat would be enough to see me on my way.

And where's your Dougie departure thread page predictor, party pooper?

[bobo the clown]

Moritz ..... or Trotter ? Wow. What a dilemma.

Page 283. Mid/late October after a poor start and a controversial decisuon to drop someine or other for a labrador fron a rescue-kennel.