Papering over the cracks?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll be surprised if Steinsson isn't here next season unless of course his personal circumstances dictate otherwise as stated above.

We know Coyle would like to keep Elmander, whether he stays or not who knows?

The rest, I'd be stunned if any were offered playing contracts.

One question I would have is, assuming he is fit, would Gardner have not done better in a midfield two than the other options we had out there from the start? Not sure he could have done any worse and at least he would have allowed us to retain a more normal shape from the start?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'll be surprised if Steinsson isn't here next season unless of course his personal circumstances dictate otherwise as stated above.

We know Coyle would like to keep Elmander, whether he stays or not who knows?

The rest, I'd be stunned if any were offered playing contracts.

One question I would have is, assuming he is fit, would Gardner have not done better in a midfield two than the other options we had out there from the start? Not sure he could have done any worse and at least he would have allowed us to retain a more normal shape from the start?

Obviously all hindsight now, but my feelings about yesterday are crystallising, it's into something like this: We lost because we went into the game with an overly attacking line-up, and got hammered because we chased the game. Not to invoke the old GM/OC argument but it was an intensely anti-Megson display, save perhaps the over-reliance on aiming for Davo's head.

OC's faith in Elmo has reaped rewards but the Swede, willing as he was to play in the unusual position asked of him, simply wasn't up to the job asked of him. So yeah, in hindsight it would probably have been better to select Mavis, Cohen, Gardner, or Ray Train.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll be surprised if Steinsson isn't here next season unless of course his personal circumstances dictate otherwise as stated above.

We know Coyle would like to keep Elmander, whether he stays or not who knows?

The rest, I'd be stunned if any were offered playing contracts.

One question I would have is, assuming he is fit, would Gardner have not done better in a midfield two than the other options we had out there from the start? Not sure he could have done any worse and at least he would have allowed us to retain a more normal shape from the start?

Obviously all hindsight now, but my feelings about yesterday are crystallising, it's into something like this: We lost because we went into the game with an overly attacking line-up, and got hammered because we chased the game. Not to invoke the old GM/OC argument but it was an intensely anti-Megson display, save perhaps the over-reliance on aiming for Davo's head.

OC's faith in Elmo has reaped rewards but the Swede, willing as he was to play in the unusual position asked of him, simply wasn't up to the job asked of him. So yeah, in hindsight it would probably have been better to select Mavis, Cohen, Gardner, or Ray Train.

DSB, so in short we lost because Owen Coyle was tactically naive? Or at best Pulis is a better tactician than Coyle?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

DSB, so in short we lost because Owen Coyle was tactically naive? Or at best Pulis is a better tactician than Coyle?

Naive's not quite right. Over-trusting, perhaps. Over-confident. Over-attacking.

It's the way he is, so it's the way we are. And no matter how bad yesterday was, it's much better than the opposite attitude. There have been Bolton managers whose idea of "keeping the white flag flying high" is to surrender. Coyle manages with his shorts on and he wants his side to die with their boots on. I'm all for it.

OC has said before that he'll always get his sides to chase games and he's made it plainly obvious that he'll very rarely make a negative tactical decision, especially when chasing the game. But it's a ploy that can blow up in your face and it's a huge pity that the occasions on which such boldness was vindicated - Blackpool, Birmingham and Stoke at home this season, Stoke away last season – have been comprehensively overshadowed.

[BWFC_Insane]

DSB, so in short we lost because Owen Coyle was tactically naive? Or at best Pulis is a better tactician than Coyle?

Naive's not quite right. Over-trusting, perhaps. Over-confident. Over-attacking.

It's the way he is, so it's the way we are. And no matter how bad yesterday was, it's much better than the opposite attitude. There have been Bolton managers whose idea of "keeping the white flag flying high" is to surrender. Coyle manages with his shorts on and he wants his side to die with their boots on. I'm all for it.

OC has said before that he'll always get his sides to chase games and he's made it plainly obvious that he'll very rarely make a negative tactical decision, especially when chasing the game. But it's a ploy that can blow up in your face and it's a huge pity that the occasions on which such boldness was vindicated - Blackpool, Birmingham and Stoke at home this season, Stoke away last season – have been comprehensively overshadowed.

100% agree with that. Whatever way you play there will be times when it comes unstuck. Shame ours did yesterday. Coyle did make mistakes but then he's big enough to accept the blame as he has done.

I suppose its like when we played Preston in the play offs, Preston under Moyes played a pressing 4-4-2 who chased every ball down and aI ttacked, and we at Bolton were a more organised, disciplined structured 4-5-1 and we picked them off. I guess on those big games had we played at our best Stoke probably would have struggled. But then we didn't and Stoke's organised approach worked.

All I'd hope is that Coyle realises how much strain his style of play puts on our central midfield players and makes sure we have adequate cover there next season as for me Holden getting injured probably just about killed our best chances in this game whether some like to admit that or not!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Fairly sure he knows how much strain our game puts on the middle two. Were it an easier life there he may have risked Mavis from the start; perhaps he should've done so anyway. Whatever, the Elmander gamble backfired badly, and from that we couldn't recover. I wondered whether he was thinking of changing it after half an hour, but shied away from publicly humiliating the substituted players. He's thoughtful like that.

He'll be very keenly aware of how much work Holden and Muamba get through, and will doubtless be looking for cover/competition.

"We're still nowhere near where I want us to be. We all know there's a long way to go and we're moving in the right direction" – Owen Coyle, last week.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Precisely.

When, and if, Citeh muller Stoke in the final you'll see similar angst from certain posters on the Stoke forum. We've not turned into dogshit overnight and neither have Stoke turned into worldbeaters. We are both top end mid-table sides. We had a nightmare yesterday and we are all pissed off today.

Owen Coyle is not a mug. He's a very good manager and he will, I am sure, manage his limited funds and options well over the summer.

We are going to have to get over yesterday and quick. Hard at the moment - but we'll come back again.

Once a white - always a white!

[HMX]

Well said. It's just hard to take

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Well said. It's just hard to take

Oh, I know! I had a lump in my throat when I typed it. I've had a bastard lump in my throat since 4.13pm yesterday.

But we will come back.

[TANGODANCER]

DSB, so in short we lost because Owen Coyle was tactically naive? Or at best Pulis is a better tactician than Coyle?

No, we lost because he, and the team, just got it wrong on the day. Doesn't make him suddenly the anti-christ or them useless. Bad day at Black Rock. Pulis said publicly yesterday that the way to stop Bolton is to stop Davies. Maybe Elmander on to start with Mark D in midfield and KD coming on later might have worked. The long-ball stuff was never going to. We lost because we let them score relatively soft goals, which indicates a lack of control in defence and midfield. All very Cher "If I could turn back time", but not the end of the world. Don't get mad, get even.

[Tombwfc]

I do think just going on yesterdays game, it's hard to make a case as to how Mark Davies would've prevented the first two goals. We collapsed miserably under the weight of knowing it was all going wrong from there on, but we'd started ok up until that point. How often would Etherington and (especially) Huth find the bottom corner from 20 yards?

That's not to say we were anything other than a complete joke, but everything went so wrong from the 11th minute onwards it's impossible to pick out one individual thing that could've stopped it. That same team could play Stoke from now until the end of time and not lose 5-0.

[Wandering Willy]

Precisely.

When, and if, Citeh muller Stoke in the final you'll see similar angst from certain posters on the Stoke forum. We've not turned into dogshit overnight and neither have Stoke turned into worldbeaters. We are both top end mid-table sides. We had a nightmare yesterday and we are all pissed off today.

Owen Coyle is not a mug. He's a very good manager and he will, I am sure, manage his limited funds and options well over the summer.

We are going to have to get over yesterday and quick. Hard at the moment - but we'll come back again.

Once a white - always a white!

Spot on Zulu.

Like many, I have been a Wanderer for more years than I care to remember. A poor, very poor, 90 minutes will not change that. I believe in this team and this club - we have had a cracking season so far. We're not United or Chelsea or Arsenal but given our resources we have done really well so far.

After the initial disappointment I am itching for us to get back into the fray, and I think the players will be up for it on Sunday. They have a point to prove.

A good effort vs Arsenal will go along way to putting yesterday behind us.

Let's not underestimate how important our role as fans is in this. The players need us behind them now more than ever.

Proud to be a white.

[Worthy4England]

Owen Coyle is not a mug. He's a very good manager

Owen Coyle is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Surely.

But, I've seen enough this season to suggest any knee-jerks are somewhat wide of the mark.

There were some players out there that wouldn't have got in my pub team. You know who you are.

[HMX]

Ticket sales seem to be decent for the Arsenal match. COYWM

[hisroyalgingerness]

I had a decision as to whether to attend or go away with the missus who is only off Easter Sunday.

It was made at about 5.15 yesterday

[Armchair Wanderer]

Owen Coyle is not a mug. He's a very good manager

Owen Coyle is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Surely.

But, I've seen enough this season to suggest any knee-jerks are somewhat wide of the mark.

There were some players out there that wouldn't have got in my pub team. You know who you are.

This is not an anti-Coyle remark. This has been the best season in my eyes for a good few years. But...

There is definitely something he's not doing right at the start of the game. He fixes whatever it is at halftime but yesterday it was too late.

Anyone ITK wanna set me straight?

[truewhite15]

Owen Coyle is not a mug. He's a very good manager

Owen Coyle is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Surely.

But, I've seen enough this season to suggest any knee-jerks are somewhat wide of the mark.

There were some players out there that wouldn't have got in my pub team. You know who you are.

This is not an anti-Coyle remark. This has been the best season in my eyes for a good few years. But...

There is definitely something he's not doing right at the start of the game. He fixes whatever it is at halftime but yesterday it was too late.

Anyone ITK wanna set me straight?

I think the theory is that he wants to keep it tight first half, wait until the opposition tires, and then hit them with all guns blazing...

[BWFC_Insane]

Nobody is knee jerking in saying get rid of Coyle. Well nobody with any sense.

But even Coyle himself has said he was a big part in the debacle that was yesterday and he deserves criticism as much as the players for yesterday. That doesn't mean get rid. But he played a part in selecting/preparing THAT shower of shite that went out yesterday. And he signed Petrov. So lets not pretend he's faultless.

[truewhite15]

Nobody is knee jerking in saying get rid of Coyle. Well nobody with any sense.

But even Coyle himself has said he was a big part in the debacle that was yesterday and he deserves criticism as much as the players for yesterday. That doesn't mean get rid. But he played a part in selecting/preparing THAT shower of shite that went out yesterday. And he signed Petrov. So lets not pretend he's faultless.

No, he's not faultless. But who would have thought that Petrov would have turned out as poorly as he has done? At the time, most of us (and many other clubs) thought he was one of the best free transfers available anywhere...

[BWFC_Insane]

Nobody is knee jerking in saying get rid of Coyle. Well nobody with any sense.

But even Coyle himself has said he was a big part in the debacle that was yesterday and he deserves criticism as much as the players for yesterday. That doesn't mean get rid. But he played a part in selecting/preparing THAT shower of shite that went out yesterday. And he signed Petrov. So lets not pretend he's faultless.

No, he's not faultless. But who would have thought that Petrov would have turned out as poorly as he has done? At the time, most of us (and many other clubs) thought he was one of the best free transfers available anywhere...

Indeed but we're not paid to be manager of BWFC.