Things can only get better - Aston Vila thread

[Prufrock]

Indeed, and his past contributions play a mahoosive part in determining that!

[Beefheart]

The problem with playing a hero past their prime is there is a danger that they won't be remembered for the good stuff.

[Wandering Willy]

I suspect the majority have recognised that KD's contributions are not what they were. I also suspect the majority recognise, and applaud, his contribution over the years.

Nobody lasts forever, and at 34, it's unlikely we'll see KD's best again and at some point the new guard will be in.

There's more harm to be done to a reputation to keep playing KD when he is clearly struggling.

[Prufrock]

He was written off when he turned 30. Then he was written off before that season when he scored 12. Playing him AND Klasnic together showed how vital movement is, but it didn't prove either were useless themselves. No reason why Davo can't have an important contribution when used with the right partners in the right games. I've said I don't think he is playing well at the moment and as such I'd make changes. I wouldn't be calling time on his BWFC career just yet.

[thebish]

I wouldn't be calling time on his BWFC career just yet.

I wouldn't, either - but if I was the manager - I'd base my decision on current form and ability - not past performance.

[thebish]

No reason why Davo can't have an important contribution when used with the right partners in the right games.

who are the right partners and which are the right games? (was Norwich at home one of them?)

[Prufrock]

I wouldn't be calling time on his BWFC career just yet.

I wouldn't, either - but if I was the manager - I'd base my decision on current form and ability - not past performance.

Your only basis of ability is past performance. Holden hasn't been particularly good in the reserves, so are we not picking him? Or are we using his past performances to decide he is still a crucial part of our team.

[TANGODANCER]

Try again...is gardner dead? get him in at left back. klasnic as our best plsyer this season should start. davo dropped. for ever!!

Whilst Davo's form hasn't been the best and there's a good case for change, I'll never understand how you can so easily brush off a man who's been our most consistent front man for so long. Rarely if ever injured, scores goals,assists, kicked up hill and down dale and so often blamed for the failing of others to get near him when he's all alone up there. He at least deserves a lot of respect, not derision surely. How soon we forget.

what have you forgotten, Tango?

there's surely a difference between recognizing a player's past contribution and believing he is good enough still to be in the team? Suggesting a player is past it NOW is not the same as disrespecting past contributions.

There's also a difference between a player going through a poor run of form, and deciding somebody who has been written off so many times before, should, on the basis of a run of poor form, be dropped forever.

Thank you Pru. Saved me saying the same. Thanks also Bish for explaining the difference between an off form player and one who should be "dropped forever" because of it ; the whole point of my comment.

[Prufrock]

No reason why Davo can't have an important contribution when used with the right partners in the right games.

who are the right partners and which are the right games? (was Norwich at home one of them?)

The right partner, certainly from the start, is one with mobility. You could probably get away with Davies and Klasnic towards the end of a game you are chasing, with others willing to run off them, but from the start Saturday showed how one-dimensional they are as a pairing. I was surprised at how poor Davo was on Saturday, but then he isn't playing well at the moment. Normally Norwich at home, with pace around him would be a game I'd love to have Davo involved in.

There appears to be a received wisdom that Davo is done for, because he is old. But that same line has been trotted out many times before when he has run through a period of bad form (which inevitably happens form time to time). Each time before he has proven people wrong. As a case in point, I'm not convinced he is notably slower, or less mobile than he was last November, when we played some brilliant stuff, with variation and unpredictabilty. Elmander was at his best, and opponents didn't know that every time 4 of the back 5 got the ball all they were going to do was nice person it at Davo.

[Wandering Willy]

There appears to be a received wisdom that Davo is done for, because he is old. But that same line has been trotted out many times before when he has run through a period of bad form (which inevitably happens form time to time). Each time before he has proven people wrong. As a case in point, I'm not convinced he is notably slower, or less mobile than he was last November, when we played some brilliant stuff, with variation and unpredictabilty. Elmander was at his best, and opponents didn't know that every time 4 of the back 5 got the ball all they were going to do was tw*t it at Davo.

34 is a long way from 30 in footballing terms. If we're going back to November for his last good run then perhaps it's more than a "period of bad form". Wasn't the same criticism levelled at Elmander despite being played out of position for half a season? For me, KD's declined significantly since then.

I still think KD has a contribution to make as a sub but not a starter at the moment. It's possible, but unlikely imo, that we do not have better at the club as it's too early to tell.

Still club captain but perhaps time for a different armband wearer.

[Lennon'sEleven]

Hoping to see Ngog and Tuncay leading the line today, with Ngog the slightly more advanced of the 2 and Tuncay dropping back. The usual top 2 on the bench to be used if needed.

Kakuta down the left in front of Robbo for me, with Eagles back on the right and a Muamba/NRC central midfield pairing. Bogdan in goal, with Steinson, Wheater and Cahill infront of him, along with the aforementioned Robbo.

That's what I'd be doing anyroad.

[Beefheart]

Would like to see us try 4-2-3-1:
-------Bogdan
Riley--Wheater--Cahill--Robbo (Alonso, Gardner and I believe Blakeman are injured? And Boyata is ineligible)
------Muamba--Holden (NRC would be ahead of Muamba but I think he could do with a rest)
Tuncay-M. Davies-Kakuta (Or Eagles in for Tuncay, could play Tuncay in one of the other two positions also)
--------Ngog

But I imagine more likely to be a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Either way, it'll be a pretty strong team and hopefully a good performance can force changes for the game against Arsenal.

[Hoboh]

Try again...is gardner dead? get him in at left back. klasnic as our best plsyer this season should start. davo dropped. for ever!!

Whilst Davo's form hasn't been the best and there's a good case for change, I'll never understand how you can so easily brush off a man who's been our most consistent front man for so long. Rarely if ever injured, scores goals,assists, kicked up hill and down dale and so often blamed for the failing of others to get near him when he's all alone up there. He at least deserves a lot of respect, not derision surely. How soon we forget.

Good point Tango but with skd I think he's reaching the boxer taking one fight too many point and that will only prove to be a great sadness. The world and the Prem have moved on, nearly all teams aim for pace and movement both of which leave Davo wanting, the one in front one behind him tactics adopted to null him are standard defence format these days a static target does not work now or at least rarely.

[General Mannerheim]

would have thought Steinsson will get a game ahead of Riley after being left out recently?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

would have thought Steinsson will get a game ahead of Riley after being left out recently?

You'd hope so, with the chance of retaining his place should he play better than the incumbents – particularly with the option of moving Boyata into the middle.

[Hoboh]

IMO if Coyle lets Knight play any part then the bloke don't have a clue what he's doing and he listens to our snooker playing has been coach too much!

[thebish]

No reason why Davo can't have an important contribution when used with the right partners in the right games.

who are the right partners and which are the right games? (was Norwich at home one of them?)

The right partner, certainly from the start, is one with mobility. You could probably get away with Davies and Klasnic towards the end of a game you are chasing, with others willing to run off them, but from the start Saturday showed how one-dimensional they are as a pairing. I was surprised at how poor Davo was on Saturday, but then he isn't playing well at the moment. Normally Norwich at home, with pace around him would be a game I'd love to have Davo involved in.

There appears to be a received wisdom that Davo is done for, because he is old. But that same line has been trotted out many times before when he has run through a period of bad form (which inevitably happens form time to time). Each time before he has proven people wrong. As a case in point, I'm not convinced he is notably slower, or less mobile than he was last November, when we played some brilliant stuff, with variation and unpredictabilty. Elmander was at his best, and opponents didn't know that every time 4 of the back 5 got the ball all they were going to do was tw*t it at Davo.

I don't think anyone is basing criticism of Davo on his age - I haven't seen much of that - most of the criticism I have seen is based on the fact that he is increasingly ineffective.

you may think that is simply down to who he is partnered with or who we are playing... I (with some sadness) think that those are merely excuses. On the evidence of this season's games - he is increasingly ineffective and not the threat he once was. You say Norwich at home is the kind of game you'd play him - and he did play against Norwich at home - yet we looked a lot better when we took him off. (yes - other changes were made - but we certainly had more bite and creativity in his absence).

Also - do we really have the resources to have players who are only effective against certain teams and with certain strike partners? I'd think not...

I don't want to bin off Davo - and you're right - he has been written off before (even before he came to us) - but there WILL come a time when he is no longer effective - and I fear that day is a lot nearer than any of us really wants to contemplate...

[thebish]

I wouldn't be calling time on his BWFC career just yet.

I wouldn't, either - but if I was the manager - I'd base my decision on current form and ability - not past performance.

Your only basis of ability is past performance. Holden hasn't been particularly good in the reserves, so are we not picking him? Or are we using his past performances to decide he is still a crucial part of our team.

perhaps I wasn't clear enough...

Tango appeared to be appealing to the evidence of Davo's entire career at Bolton - that's what I meant by past. the last few games I'd describe as "recent" performance (current form) - though in a strict grammatical tense sense, I'll grant you, anything that is not right now is also "past".

[TANGODANCER]

Tango appeared to be appealing to the evidence of Davo's entire career at Bolton - that's what I meant by past. the last few games I'd describe as "recent" performance (current form) - though in a strict grammatical tense sense, I'll grant you, anything that is not right now is also "past".

Tango ( whilst admitting the man's current form doesn't deserve automatic selection)) was stating Davies deserves a little more respect than "drop him for good", by the same poster if I recall who yesterday called him a shithouse. That's what Tango was stating. Nothing more.

[thebish]

Tango appeared to be appealing to the evidence of Davo's entire career at Bolton - that's what I meant by past. the last few games I'd describe as "recent" performance (current form) - though in a strict grammatical tense sense, I'll grant you, anything that is not right now is also "past".

Tango ( whilst admitting the man's current form doesn't deserve automatic selection)) was stating Davies deserves a little more respect than "drop him for good", by the same poster if I recall who yesterday called him a shithouse. That's what Tango was stating. Nothing more.

the days when Big Sam started talking in the third person where the beginning of the end! beware!