Tuesday night with Venkys

[CAPSLOCK]

We gave away two goals and threw away our lead because we defended far too deep.

Bullshit

You either

didn't go, so really shouldn't be commenting on something you have no idea about

or

you're clueless, so really shouldn't be commenting on something you have no idea about

Cos what you describe just didn't happen

[thebish]

This argument works for the last 20 minutes or so, especially going 4-5-1, but Freedman's ultra defensive set up after half time did not work. It cost us two goals and we had to fight back to win the game.

did it though? didn't a goalkeeping blunder cause the second? and didn't the first arise from a missed tackle?

i think your direct correlation theory might be a little bit over-simplistic..

There'll always be some individual errors which cost goals but I think you're putting yourself in a bad position by defending so deep. For the first goal we conceded yesterday, we had 8 men inside our own box, and that's far too much for me. Not only does it allow them to create good chances out of nothing, but you're less likely to defend well because 8 men inside the box is chaotic.

They were individual errors but I don't think they'd have taken place if we hadn't sat back so deep, you know? There's a time and place for that, but I don't think it's straight after half time.

hmmm - except that Barnsley also had long range shots in the first half when we were not sitting deep - but boggers didn't spill one of those straight into the path of a barnsley player..

if he had - would you have said that not sitting deep cost us a goal??

i doubt it...

[TANGODANCER]

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Defending deep and inviting sides on is a faullt, no doubt, and not a new one. But yesterday the second half had hardly started when they got two quick goals. Hardly time for a mind-set. Two quick and decent attacks, the second which would have failed had Bogdan held on to the ball, not really indicative of the rest. Getting back in, not buckling and winning the game was the real difference in us. No teams are going to lie down, particularly away. We didn't seem to do much wrong, those couple of instances apart.

[thebish]

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Defending deep and inviting sides on is a faullt, no doubt, and not a new one. But yesterday the second half had hardly started when they got two quick goals. Hardly time for a mind-set. Two quick and decent attacks, the second which would have failed had Bogdan held on to the ball, not really indicative of the rest. Getting back in, not buckling and winning the game was the real difference in us. No teams are going to lie down, particularly away. We didn't seem to do much wrong, those couple of instances apart.

indeed not - only those with faulty memories will not remember us doing this countless times with Big Sam - and it worked out ok in the end!

[CAPSLOCK]

The first goal came from us wasting a 3 on three 30 yards from their goal

We then had an opportunity to get it back on the half way line, but Lee and Alonso left it to each other

The argument we were 'sitting back' is absolute bollocks

The second was just rank bad goalkeeping

[BWFC_Insane]

Simply sometimes you need to just see out periods in games. It's why we consistently failed under Coyle because we were never prepared to dig in and scrap out the win or the point. We didn't have that ability.

Except we didn't see out that period. The first 10-15 minutes after half time are crucial in defending a lead. It's when you need to kill the game off and we simply didn't do that. We gave away two goals and threw away our lead because we defended far too deep.

This argument works for the last 20 minutes or so, especially going 4-5-1, but Freedman's ultra defensive set up after half time did not work. It cost us two goals and we had to fight back to win the game.

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Did you go? Cos those that did say you're talking utter bollocks and there was no sitting deep directly after half time.

We got caught cold after half time, by the sounds of it, from a few mistakes more than owt else.

I think you're just embarrassing yourself.

[Jakerbeef]

As improved as we are, for a while now we do seem to sit a little uneasy on a two goal lead...three is considered safe but two really should be as well.

Me thinks it's a long-standing hangover from the Brom game.

[officer_dibble]

We only sat deep when weater came on
and then ricketts and alonso played as wingbacks so it wasnt a bank of 5

[thebish]

As improved as we are, for a while now we do seem to sit a little uneasy on a two goal lead...

I can't remember EVER sitting easy on a 2 goal lead!! 4-goal lead and I unclench the buttocks...

[BWFC_Insane]

As improved as we are, for a while now we do seem to sit a little uneasy on a two goal lead...

I can't remember EVER sitting easy on a 2 goal lead!! 4-goal lead and I unclench the buttocks...

Even when we were 6th in the prem if we were two up with 5 minutes to go I'd still sit there and think, if they get one back we are fecked.....

[SmokinFrazier]

Simply sometimes you need to just see out periods in games. It's why we consistently failed under Coyle because we were never prepared to dig in and scrap out the win or the point. We didn't have that ability.

Except we didn't see out that period. The first 10-15 minutes after half time are crucial in defending a lead. It's when you need to kill the game off and we simply didn't do that. We gave away two goals and threw away our lead because we defended far too deep.

This argument works for the last 20 minutes or so, especially going 4-5-1, but Freedman's ultra defensive set up after half time did not work. It cost us two goals and we had to fight back to win the game.

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Did you go? Cos those that did say you're talking utter bollocks and there was no sitting deep directly after half time.

We got caught cold after half time, by the sounds of it, from a few mistakes more than owt else.

I think you're just embarrassing yourself.

What part of 8 men sat inside your box isn't sitting deep? That isn't being caught cold, it's defending extremely deep. Things didn't change for the second goal either.

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

[SmokinFrazier]

hmmm - except that Barnsley also had long range shots in the first half when we were not sitting deep - but boggers didn't spill one of those straight into the path of a barnsley player..

if he had - would you have said that not sitting deep cost us a goal??

i doubt it...

Yeah, it's true that it didn't happen in the first half but the defending deep is possibly the reason why it didn't happen. For the first goal, in between the Barnsley playing striking the ball and it going past Bogdan, it went past 6 Bolton defenders, so you could say that defending deep is what caused the goal because those additional defenders got in Bogdan's way. It certainly looks like his vision was obscured. For their second goal, their shot went past 3 Bolton players and a Barnsley striker, so that probably blocked Bogdan's vision again. If we weren't defending so deep, the player who tapped it in for their second wouldn't have got that chance either, because he was well inside the 12 yard box when he reacted.

This is the problem with defending deep. It's chaotic, the keepers often can't see clearly and their attackers are in very good positions for anything like a scuffed kick, a keeper spill or anything like that. You want to push them back as much as possible, not allow them to walk all over you.

[TANGODANCER]

Ah, I see what you're saying, when they get within shooting distance all run past them so the goalie can see their player shoot. Logic....

[SmokinFrazier]

Ah, I see what you're saying, when they get within shooting distance all run past them so the goalie can see their player shoot. Logic....

What? I'm talking about why the keeper may have had problems seeing the shots. A congested box is a keepers nightmare.

[BWFC_Insane]

Simply sometimes you need to just see out periods in games. It's why we consistently failed under Coyle because we were never prepared to dig in and scrap out the win or the point. We didn't have that ability.

Except we didn't see out that period. The first 10-15 minutes after half time are crucial in defending a lead. It's when you need to kill the game off and we simply didn't do that. We gave away two goals and threw away our lead because we defended far too deep.

This argument works for the last 20 minutes or so, especially going 4-5-1, but Freedman's ultra defensive set up after half time did not work. It cost us two goals and we had to fight back to win the game.

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Did you go? Cos those that did say you're talking utter bollocks and there was no sitting deep directly after half time.

We got caught cold after half time, by the sounds of it, from a few mistakes more than owt else.

I think you're just embarrassing yourself.

What part of 8 men sat inside your box isn't sitting deep? That isn't being caught cold, it's defending extremely deep. Things didn't change for the second goal either.

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

Oh dear. Please just stop digging.

[SmokinFrazier]

Simply sometimes you need to just see out periods in games. It's why we consistently failed under Coyle because we were never prepared to dig in and scrap out the win or the point. We didn't have that ability.

Except we didn't see out that period. The first 10-15 minutes after half time are crucial in defending a lead. It's when you need to kill the game off and we simply didn't do that. We gave away two goals and threw away our lead because we defended far too deep.

This argument works for the last 20 minutes or so, especially going 4-5-1, but Freedman's ultra defensive set up after half time did not work. It cost us two goals and we had to fight back to win the game.

For me, we need to sit back far less than we do. Every time we get a lead, the mindset seems to change to camping inside our own box and desperately try to scramble the ball away. We're a better side than that, and when we are more positive, we defend better.

Did you go? Cos those that did say you're talking utter bollocks and there was no sitting deep directly after half time.

We got caught cold after half time, by the sounds of it, from a few mistakes more than owt else.

I think you're just embarrassing yourself.

What part of 8 men sat inside your box isn't sitting deep? That isn't being caught cold, it's defending extremely deep. Things didn't change for the second goal either.

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

Oh dear. Please just stop digging.

8 men inside your box = not defending deep.

You learn something new every day.

[Worthy4England]

What part of 8 men sat inside your box isn't sitting deep? That isn't being caught cold, it's defending extremely deep. Things didn't change for the second goal either.

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

So did you go then?

[BWFC_Insane]

8 men inside your box = not defending deep.

You learn something new every day.

Were you there or not? Sounds like we conceded from losing the ball, with Alonso high up the pitch. That is not sitting back that's being caught out and then getting players back but being stretched across the park. But again I will defer to those that actually saw it.

Btw I've just counted 8 Spurs players defending their own box from an Arsenal attack. Perhaps you should go and give AVB some lessons.

[thebish]

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

but they let one in... ergo - not defending deep caused the goal...

[TANGODANCER]

What part of 8 men sat inside your box isn't sitting deep? That isn't being caught cold, it's defending extremely deep. Things didn't change for the second goal either.

Put it one way; Spurs won't come out in the second half and have everyone bar Lennon, Bale and Adebayor camped inside their box. It won't happen, and nor should it. It's far too negative for just after half time.

So did you go then?

Has he even seen the goals?