My Way...

[StaffsTrotter]

I can only marvel at how easily astonished you are! May it continue!

you're right, I shouldn't be astonished, suppose its just your usual contrariness. So where are all these bona fide quotes, witness statements from red nose, mourinho etc then ?

[BWFC_Insane]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

It's not a question of equating anyone to anyone. It was merely a list of managers that seem to kick against Tango's assertion that "my way or the highway" has never worked.

Given there are a number of forum members whose sole purpose seems to be that state that no-one can ever make observations or comment on how DF goes about his managerial business, because how can they possibly know the full picture, its astonishing that one of those proponents is putting forward a case based on apparent intimate knowledge of the methods and practices of other managers.

I'd bet the managerial style of every one of those changed through their career and certainly in respect of red nose & mourinho, I've always thought they develop a sense of collective team against the world mentality and good personal relationship with players - red noses recent book just spoiling the illusion. I don't get a sense of any of that at BWFC at the mo.

There is some difference between saying you can't possibly evaluate the small details of decision making when you're on the outside without possession of the full (or any) facts, and saying that you can't analyse a managers style.

Sure we only see the public face of a manager but then we can determine some things about how they operate from that.

The point I was making is that successful managers seemingly have a trait of sticking to their guns and their own visions. I'm not sure there are examples of managers having great careers because they "did what the fans wanted"...

In the main because it is not a thing in its own right. What fans want is to see their team win. But how fans think that is best achieved is radically different.....

[StaffsTrotter]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

It's not a question of equating anyone to anyone. It was merely a list of managers that seem to kick against Tango's assertion that "my way or the highway" has never worked.

Given there are a number of forum members whose sole purpose seems to be that state that no-one can ever make observations or comment on how DF goes about his managerial business, because how can they possibly know the full picture, its astonishing that one of those proponents is putting forward a case based on apparent intimate knowledge of the methods and practices of other managers.

I'd bet the managerial style of every one of those changed through their career and certainly in respect of red nose & mourinho, I've always thought they develop a sense of collective team against the world mentality and good personal relationship with players - red noses recent book just spoiling the illusion. I don't get a sense of any of that at BWFC at the mo.

There is some difference between saying you can't possibly evaluate the small details of decision making when you're on the outside without possession of the full (or any) facts, and saying that you can't analyse a managers style.

Sure we only see the public face of a manager but then we can determine some things about how they operate from that.

The point I was making is that successful managers seemingly have a trait of sticking to their guns and their own visions. I'm not sure there are examples of managers having great careers because they "did what the fans wanted"...

In the main because it is not a thing in its own right. What fans want is to see their team win. But how fans think that is best achieved is radically different.....

Agree with your first 2 paras, albeit its still only then personal interpretation /opinion, which is why the debate is endless.

Agree with your point that they can't just do what the crowd want, but they ignore at their peril and yes winning helps and can paper over cracks.
As to the successful manager trait, I'm less convinced its sticking to your guns (insert 'determined' or 'obstinate' depending on viewpoint) is what its all about. You've certainly got to have a self confidence, belief in your own ability (some ability in first place helps), interpersonal skills, surround yourself with good people, throw in some luck etc etc. But not sure what in football terms you have to stick to - don't you adapt to circumstance. And even after all that accept that you might be or have a good manager, but the fickle finger says its just not meant to be at a particular place or time.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agree with your first 2 paras, albeit its still only then personal interpretation /opinion, which is why the debate is endless.

Agree with your point that they can't just do what the crowd want, but they ignore at their peril and yes winning helps and can paper over cracks.
As to the successful manager trait, I'm less convinced its sticking to your guns (insert 'determined' or 'obstinate' depending on viewpoint) is what its all about. You've certainly got to have a self confidence, belief in your own ability (some ability in first place helps), interpersonal skills, surround yourself with good people, throw in some luck etc etc. But not sure what in football terms you have to stick to - don't you adapt to circumstance. And even after all that accept that you might be or have a good manager, but the fickle finger says its just not meant to be at a particular place or time.

I think terminology might get us bogged down here. I don't mean a manager is successful by rigidly sticking to every single small detail they once did. Of course you adapt.

But I meant more that if Dougie or any manager believes in certain things, and have their own reasons for that, then they should have the conviction to see them through. And IMO the best managers all do and have done that despite there being times fans were on their backs.

[thebish]

I can only marvel at how easily astonished you are! May it continue!

you're right, I shouldn't be astonished

I didn't say you shouldn't be astonished. as for the rest - I think you are trying just a little bit too hard.. chill!

[StaffsTrotter]

Agree with your first 2 paras, albeit its still only then personal interpretation /opinion, which is why the debate is endless.

Agree with your point that they can't just do what the crowd want, but they ignore at their peril and yes winning helps and can paper over cracks.
As to the successful manager trait, I'm less convinced its sticking to your guns (insert 'determined' or 'obstinate' depending on viewpoint) is what its all about. You've certainly got to have a self confidence, belief in your own ability (some ability in first place helps), interpersonal skills, surround yourself with good people, throw in some luck etc etc. But not sure what in football terms you have to stick to - don't you adapt to circumstance. And even after all that accept that you might be or have a good manager, but the fickle finger says its just not meant to be at a particular place or time.

I think terminology might get us bogged down here. I don't mean a manager is successful by rigidly sticking to every single small detail they once did. Of course you adapt.

But I meant more that if Dougie or any manager believes in certain things, and have their own reasons for that, then they should have the conviction to see them through. And IMO the best managers all do and have done that despite there being times fans were on their backs.

so what kind of things are these certain things to believe in ?

[Enoch]

If I were going to be astonished, it might well be at how often some folk can pick over the same bones.

[thebish]

If I were going to be astonished, it might well be at how often some folk can pick over the same bones.

aye - but you wouldn't be, as you are not the easily-astonishable type!

the weird thing is - or, should I say ONE of the weird things is - that (unless my memory is unusually mistaken) I was criticised fairly early on in Dougie's reign for being too negative about him... I wasn't then saying anything much differently to what I have said all the way through his reign, but now those same things, when said, are almost invariably classed as some kind of contrary and twisted dougie-love! it's a crazy-crazy world!!

[Enoch]

I blame it all on DSb and his crusade to make the internet completely binary.

Are ya fore, or are ya agin!

[StaffsTrotter]

reading the kellett story in the online BN, once again makes me wonder whether DF should really have just stuck to coaching youngsters ...........

“That’s why I like working with young players, like Andy they can take things on board and change. Older players sometimes have habits which make coaching them on new things a lot, lot harder.”