Time to go

[BL3]

You still go down in 18th place.

West Brom away will be no gimmie.

So it's changed balls all, if you can read full sentences, "unless its repeated a few times in the immediate future." Were we to lose our next two, it would still look pretty bleak, get some points from both of them, it might look a lot better.

Next set of fixtures has Wigan V Blackburn, Everton v Wolves and Sunderland v Fulham. A draw or worse in our next game could quite easily, see us not move relative to the rest of the league and be no better off relatively.

I wasn't aware that the season finished on Sunday. Pass me the noose.

[BL3]

BTW BL3 you wern't a red in your past life were you? 11 pigs in red shirts and all that!

Eh?

[Lord Kangana]

One really good win against Stoke hasn't changed very much

Utter cobblers. Having been within 3 points off 17th place, we're now within 3 points off mid-table because of the win and a much improved goal difference.

There you go bringing facts and figures into it.

We're still effectively 3 points off 17th. One point wouldn't improve our GD and you can't get two points in one game. So we get our 1 point, Everton have a game in hand and would need to lose it 4-0, then lose against us too, or one of the other two teams on 10 points would need to lose 8-0 or 10-0.

We're also effectively 3 points off 13th aswell.

[Worthy4England]

You still go down in 18th place.

West Brom away will be no gimmie.

So it's changed balls all, if you can read full sentences, "unless its repeated a few times in the immediate future." Were we to lose our next two, it would still look pretty bleak, get some points from both of them, it might look a lot better.

Next set of fixtures has Wigan V Blackburn, Everton v Wolves and Sunderland v Fulham. A draw or worse in our next game could quite easily, see us not move relative to the rest of the league and be no better off relatively.

I wasn't aware that the season finished on Sunday. Pass me the noose.

It hasn't which is why I said what we showed Sunday needed to be repeated a few times.

As for the noose, send me your mailbox number. I'd be delighted to send one round.

[BL3]

You still go down in 18th place.

West Brom away will be no gimmie.

So it's changed balls all, if you can read full sentences, "unless its repeated a few times in the immediate future." Were we to lose our next two, it would still look pretty bleak, get some points from both of them, it might look a lot better.

Next set of fixtures has Wigan V Blackburn, Everton v Wolves and Sunderland v Fulham. A draw or worse in our next game could quite easily, see us not move relative to the rest of the league and be no better off relatively.

I wasn't aware that the season finished on Sunday. Pass me the noose.

It hasn't which is why I said what we showed Sunday needed to be repeated a few times.

As for the noose, send me your mailbox number. I'd be delighted to send one round.

You mean we need to win several more games this season in order to avoid being relegated? feck me, you may be on to something there Sherlock!

[Worthy4England]

One really good win against Stoke hasn't changed very much

Utter cobblers. Having been within 3 points off 17th place, we're now within 3 points off mid-table because of the win and a much improved goal difference.

There you go bringing facts and figures into it.

We're still effectively 3 points off 17th. One point wouldn't improve our GD and you can't get two points in one game. So we get our 1 point, Everton have a game in hand and would need to lose it 4-0, then lose against us too, or one of the other two teams on 10 points would need to lose 8-0 or 10-0.

We're also effectively 3 points off 13th aswell.

I think with the next round of fixtures (all the teams below 12th play each other pretty much) 13th is the best we could get if all the results go our way (they all draw) and we win 4-1. I'd be delighted if that happened. But we're not "within" 3 points of 17th. We'd need the three points. 1 point or worse and we don't move anywhere.

[Worthy4England]

You still go down in 18th place.

West Brom away will be no gimmie.

So it's changed balls all, if you can read full sentences, "unless its repeated a few times in the immediate future." Were we to lose our next two, it would still look pretty bleak, get some points from both of them, it might look a lot better.

Next set of fixtures has Wigan V Blackburn, Everton v Wolves and Sunderland v Fulham. A draw or worse in our next game could quite easily, see us not move relative to the rest of the league and be no better off relatively.

I wasn't aware that the season finished on Sunday. Pass me the noose.

It hasn't which is why I said what we showed Sunday needed to be repeated a few times.

As for the noose, send me your mailbox number. I'd be delighted to send one round.

You mean we need to win several more games this season in order to avoid being relegated? feck me, you may be on to something there Sherlock!

Do you do being a cock as a dayjob?

[BL3]

You still go down in 18th place.

West Brom away will be no gimmie.

So it's changed balls all, if you can read full sentences, "unless its repeated a few times in the immediate future." Were we to lose our next two, it would still look pretty bleak, get some points from both of them, it might look a lot better.

Next set of fixtures has Wigan V Blackburn, Everton v Wolves and Sunderland v Fulham. A draw or worse in our next game could quite easily, see us not move relative to the rest of the league and be no better off relatively.

I wasn't aware that the season finished on Sunday. Pass me the noose.

It hasn't which is why I said what we showed Sunday needed to be repeated a few times.

As for the noose, send me your mailbox number. I'd be delighted to send one round.

You mean we need to win several more games this season in order to avoid being relegated? feck me, you may be on to something there Sherlock!

Do you do being a cock as a dayjob?

No. I leave that to the experts like you.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

FWIW, I always see us as being in a group with teams within three points of us, because that's the potential differential over one block of games. True, you'd need the results to fall *just so* to leap or fall that far, but it's a fair thumb-rule of how we're doing.

By that yardstick, we're in a mix with everybody from 12th to 19th. In this instance, as Worthy notes, next time out everybody in the bottom half plays somebody else in the bottom half, creating yer classic "six-pointers":
QPR (11th, 12pts) v Stoke (12th, 12pts)
Everton (17th, 10pts) v Wolves (13th, 11pts)
Sunderland (15th, 10pts) v Fulham (16th, 10 pts)
West Brom (14th, 11pts) v Bolton (18th, 9pts)
Blackburn (19th, 6pts) v Wigan (20th, 5pts)

...so we couldn't leap up to 12th 'cos they can't all lose, but equally we could make up some significant ground 'cos they can't all win. By my reckoning, if we win at West Brom we're definitely up to 15th (by going above West Brom, one of Everton/Wolves and one of Sunderland/Fulham) and possibly as high as 13th (above both of Sunderland/Fulham if they draw and one of Stoke/QPR if they don't draw).

Anyways, that passed five minutes...

[BWFC_Insane]

The win gives Coyle more time and rightly so.

But its also right to point out that should we lose the next two games, we're right back to where we were before the Stoke game.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The win gives Coyle more time and rightly so.

But its also right to point out that should we lose the next two games, we're right back to where we were before the Stoke game.

I disagree. If we lose the next two games then we're in a worse position, partly because we'll have won one and lost two, but mainly because it shows Coyle can no longer put a run together.

But if he can, and we win our next two, we might be top-half.

[Worthy4England]

FWIW, I always see us as being in a group with teams within three points of us, because that's the potential differential over one block of games. True, you'd need the results to fall *just so* to leap or fall that far, but it's a fair thumb-rule of how we're doing.

By that yardstick, we're in a mix with everybody from 12th to 19th. In this instance, as Worthy notes, next time out everybody in the bottom half plays somebody else in the bottom half, creating yer classic "six-pointers":
QPR (11th, 12pts) v Stoke (12th, 12pts)
Everton (17th, 10pts) v Wolves (13th, 11pts)
Sunderland (15th, 10pts) v Fulham (16th, 10 pts)
West Brom (14th, 11pts) v Bolton (18th, 9pts)
Blackburn (19th, 6pts) v Wigan (20th, 5pts)

...so we couldn't leap up to 12th 'cos they can't all lose, but equally we could make up some significant ground 'cos they can't all win. By my reckoning, if we win at West Brom we're definitely up to 15th (by going above West Brom, one of Everton/Wolves and one of Sunderland/Fulham) and possibly as high as 13th (above both of Sunderland/Fulham if they draw and one of Stoke/QPR if they don't draw).

Anyways, that passed five minutes...

I think if they all draw and we win 3-0 or better, we'd go 13th - which I'd be delighted with. But it would take the win from us to get us there. A draw, doesn't shift us, unless there's some really freaky results (8-0, 10-0 etc.).

So the point I was making, was that whilst spanking Stoke was great, we need to continue that form over the next couple of games, to put us in a better position in the mix. As a one off, it's not much use to us. A couple of draws (or a draw and a defeat) wouldn't really be good enough, although if played with the right attitude and formation, I might be less critical of OC.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

whilst spanking Stoke was great, we need to continue that form over the next couple of games, to put us in a better position in the mix. As a one off, it's not much use to us. A couple of draws (or a draw and a defeat) wouldn't really be good enough, although if played with the right attitude and formation, I might be less critical of OC.

Couldn't agree more, and didn't really disagree above.

Put it this way: I'm currently writing a Stats Zone analysis of this game, first time in ages I've had the time (not BWFC's fault) and inclination (definitely BWFC's fault).

[Wandering Willy]

I think if they all draw and we win 3-0 or better, we'd go 13th - which I'd be delighted with. But it would take the win from us to get us there. A draw, doesn't shift us, unless there's some really freaky results (8-0, 10-0 etc.).

So the point I was making, was that whilst spanking Stoke was great, we need to continue that form over the next couple of games, to put us in a better position in the mix. As a one off, it's not much use to us. A couple of draws (or a draw and a defeat) wouldn't really be good enough, although if played with the right attitude and formation, I might be less critical of OC.

Which adds balance to the original, and rather ingenious "we're effectively 3 points off 17th" post.

The fact that a draw doesn't shift us or many others if they draw, is often true whatever your position, leading to the shocking revelation that wins are more likely move us up the table.

A great win on Sunday and an invaluable 3 points but but we must build on it as you infer. Better to start from a good win than a loss though.

[GeraldCid]

Sure, if we lose miserably to West Brom and Everton we'll be back to square one. I think it puts the Wembley ghost to bed and hopefully gives us some confidence moving forwards, but proof is in the pudding.

He's right you know....

Theres so much negativity on this thread. Good to see a realsitic, proportionate reaction to our problems. If we lose against WBA and Everton, which I'll admit is a realistic possibility, then and only then should we be talking about replacing him.

[Worthy4England]

I think if they all draw and we win 3-0 or better, we'd go 13th - which I'd be delighted with. But it would take the win from us to get us there. A draw, doesn't shift us, unless there's some really freaky results (8-0, 10-0 etc.).

So the point I was making, was that whilst spanking Stoke was great, we need to continue that form over the next couple of games, to put us in a better position in the mix. As a one off, it's not much use to us. A couple of draws (or a draw and a defeat) wouldn't really be good enough, although if played with the right attitude and formation, I might be less critical of OC.

Which adds balance to the original, and rather ingenious "we're effectively 3 points off 17th" post.
The fact that a draw doesn't shift us or many others if they draw, is often true whatever your position, leading to the shocking revelation that wins are more likely move us up the table.

A great win on Sunday and an invaluable 3 points but but we must build on it as you infer. Better to start from a good win than a loss though.

Ingeneous or disingenuous?

We are effectively a win off 17th. So not "within three points of" (within would be 1 point because you can't get 2). Just responding to what was originally posted.

Hopefully a win in two weeks and things would start to look a fair bit better (whether 13th or 14th etc.)

If no win, then more than likely no better off. If you meant disingenuous, then it's only disingenuous if you really believe there'll be an 8-0 defeat for Fulham against Sunderland or a 10-0 defeat for Sunderland against Fulham or 6-0 defeat for Everton against Wolves.

[Lord Kangana]

We'll be on 10 points rather than 9 if we draw. I would suggest, unless mathematics has suddenly entered a crisis of identity, that this would constitute "better off"

[Worthy4England]

We'll be on 10 points rather than 9 if we draw. I would suggest, unless mathematics has suddenly entered a crisis of identity, that this would constitute "better off"

You could take that view, on the grounds that 10 is one larger than 9.

You could also take the view that 10 relative to the rest of the league, is "no better off" with one more game played than 9 currently.

[Wandering Willy]

Oh God - we've got another 12 days to sort this out.

[Wandering Willy]

Or is it eleven?

Or ten?