The Debt.

[jaffka]

Football is different, some manager somewhere will be interested and their is always two sides to a story.

Don't think this job is like your own, IMO of footballers they are mercenary bolshie tw@ts and quite capable of banding together to cause unrest over some grievance.

[gavlat2872]

If it was a world class player who is having a rift with management and wanted out i could understand the attitude to do the bear minimum to keep injury free.

However, our lot are far from world class and aren't exactly on top of managers shortlists. If they know they're not wanted at this club (a struggling championship club i might add) they should be out there putting in a shift to show potential new employers that they have at least a shred of moral fibre. But they dont.

[jaffka]

These players have played at other clubs, therefore been associated with other managers, coaches, players etc.

There are many leagues throughout the world where they can work.

Players are as loyal as their contract lasts.

I have seen it first hand at an end of season do, where a player getting an award wouldn't shake the managers hand, wouldn't spend any time onstage with him and slagged him off all night. It was over money.

[gavlat2872]

These players have played at other clubs, therefore been associated with other managers, coaches, players etc.

There are many leagues throughout the world where they can work.

Players are as loyal as their contract lasts.

I have seen it first hand at an end of season do, where a player getting an award wouldn't shake the managers hand, wouldn't spend any time onstage with him and slagged him off all night. It was over money.

I suppose at the end of the day, it falls down to this.

[Prufrock]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season. If they're the kind of shithouse who'll play worse now (rather than say, an Elmander, who got criticised for the opposite), then that might go some way to explaining why they're being got rind of in the first place. F*ck em now if we can, pay them up.

[Enoch]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season.

On a hair splitting note, I don't doubt Knight's commitment. Personally I'd have chosen a different player to make the point, which otherwise I'm in agreement with.

[gavlat2872]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season. If they're the kind of shithouse who'll play worse now (rather than say, an Elmander, who got criticised for the opposite), then that might go some way to explaining why they're being got rind of in the first place. F*ck em now if we can, pay them up.

as much as it pains me to say it, i think we need to keep them until their contracts run out just for the sheer lack of numbers if they go.

If they leave at the end of the season then it gives DF a whole pre season to bring in new faces. With about a week to go in this transfer window and no cash, i cant see anything happening TBF

[Tombwfc]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season. If they're the kind of shithouse who'll play worse now (rather than say, an Elmander, who got criticised for the opposite), then that might go some way to explaining why they're being got rind of in the first place. F*ck em now if we can, pay them up.

By all means, if we can pay them up now do so.

I just don't get the logic of publicly telling everyone who'll listen that players x, y and z are all overpaid shithouses who aren't fit to burn and they'll be gone at the end of the season, but then playing them every week.

It seems to me that the options are to try and motivate these players, or do a Kenny Jackett and stick them in the reserves. If the kids can't be blooded in a nothing FA Cup tie at home, when can they be? How are any of them supposed to be capable of being Championship footballers in eight months time?

Every single one of our out of contract players have got a good track record elsewhere and a sob-story about how some clueless Jock tried to feck their careers. None of them will have any trouble finding themselves a club. Roger Johnson spent two years at Wolves doing his best to see them plummet through the divisions, and now he's back in the Premier League.

[Prufrock]

Yeah tbf that does seem to be his one redeeming quality. The only two I *know* are out of contract are him and that French lad up front. And I don't want to jinx him f*cking off. Not that he could obviously have a worse attitude.

Oh and Eagles, who isn't playing. So it's fine. The ones who are going aren't even playing/ won't be worse, and we can wait till the summer when we lose their astronomical wages.

I have a pet theory which is that Dougie is being hampered because his rotation, play only the mega-fit requires a base-line of quality throughout the squad. So when the good players are all fit, we're good, and when they aren't...Now, whilst surely a better manager would have adapted to this, I'm hopeful for the summer where the cutting of these ginormowages means who'll have a bit of leeway to get more players with the right attitude in, and so we'll be more consistent.

Gotta get my optimism from somewhere!

[Prufrock]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season. If they're the kind of shithouse who'll play worse now (rather than say, an Elmander, who got criticised for the opposite), then that might go some way to explaining why they're being got rind of in the first place. F*ck em now if we can, pay them up.

By all means, if we can pay them up now do so.

I just don't get the logic of publicly telling everyone who'll listen that players x, y and z are all overpaid shithouses who aren't fit to burn and they'll be gone at the end of the season, but then playing them every week.

It seems to me that the options are to try and motivate these players, or do a Kenny Jackett and stick them in the reserves. If the kids can't be blooded in a nothing FA Cup tie at home, when can they be? How are any of them supposed to be capable of being Championship footballers in eight months time?

Every single one of our out of contract players have got a good track record elsewhere and a sob-story about how some clueless Jock tried to feck their careers. None of them will have any trouble finding themselves a club. Roger Johnson spent two years at Wolves doing his best to see them plummet through the divisions, and now he's back in the Premier League.

I take the logic, but I think the fact we've just lost 7-1 has to be taken into account.

Alternatively, it could be an attempt at motivating them. 'The squad is full of shithouses and needs a clear out, and top of that list are any out of contract players who don't show me until the end of the season why I should keep them'.

[jaffka]

I look at this and see another failing in him. He clearly falls out with players and is then struggles to motivate a team. He is still inexperienced but we could be seeing another Souness type.

[Enoch]

But does he fall out with players?

It seems he has washed his hands of Mears, but he hasn't f*cked anyone else off that I'm aware of.

If dropping players that aren't performing, as with say Davies last season, Eagles this season, constitutes 'falling out with players', what's the alternative?

[Tombwfc]

So what do we do? Does Dougie have to give Zat Knight a new contract just he isn't even shitter till the end of the season. If they're the kind of shithouse who'll play worse now (rather than say, an Elmander, who got criticised for the opposite), then that might go some way to explaining why they're being got rind of in the first place. F*ck em now if we can, pay them up.

By all means, if we can pay them up now do so.

I just don't get the logic of publicly telling everyone who'll listen that players x, y and z are all overpaid shithouses who aren't fit to burn and they'll be gone at the end of the season, but then playing them every week.

It seems to me that the options are to try and motivate these players, or do a Kenny Jackett and stick them in the reserves. If the kids can't be blooded in a nothing FA Cup tie at home, when can they be? How are any of them supposed to be capable of being Championship footballers in eight months time?

Every single one of our out of contract players have got a good track record elsewhere and a sob-story about how some clueless Jock tried to feck their careers. None of them will have any trouble finding themselves a club. Roger Johnson spent two years at Wolves doing his best to see them plummet through the divisions, and now he's back in the Premier League.

I take the logic, but I think the fact we've just lost 7-1 has to be taken into account.

Alternatively, it could be an attempt at motivating them. 'The squad is full of shithouses and needs a clear out, and top of that list are any out of contract players who don't show me until the end of the season why I should keep them'.

Well, I actually thought he might have been intimating that by what he said in the Bolton News yesterday...

“It is nothing that was not said to their faces. And to be fair to them, they have responded to bad times last season and they can do it again.

“I’m looking for a reaction and deep down I feel I’ll get that. It was a difficult day for everyone, disappointing to say the least. But football grants you that second bite – and here it is.”

It being just a motivational ploy would make sense of why this 'nucleus' of players continue to make up a large part of our first team. But equally, he tried the same thing after we lost at Blackburn. Surely these things start to lose impact? (and I don't recall it being particularly effective back then either).

I think if that is the case, and he's going to continue playing the same players regardless of what he said after Reading, he's in real danger of losing the remainder of the supporters who still see him as the man to rebuild the club.

[jaffka]

Have you read what riviman put?

Openly slagging off players at AGM...

[Enoch]

Have you read what riviman put?

Answering questions put to him by his employers, in a confidential meeting.

I expect him to lie to the press, I don't necessarily expect him to lie to his employers.

Well not all the time.

[jaffka]

Have you read what riviman put?

Answering questions put to him by his employers, in a confidential meeting.

I expect him to lie to the press, I don't necessarily expect him to lie to his employers.

Well not all the time.

Are you hard work on purpose?

I have quoted a source to support what have put. Not seen anything from you.

[Enoch]

Are you hard work on purpose?

What have I done but illustrate that your interpretation of what Riviman posted, isn't necessarily the only one possible. I don't see him answering questions at an AGM constitutes 'slagging' anyone off.

If this site only allowed folk to see the worst and didn't have anyone that saw a different view, it would be even harder work than it is.

Or maybe it should be a private club for dissenters?!

[jaffka]

Are you hard work on purpose?

What have I done but illustrate that your interpretation of what Riviman posted, isn't necessarily the only one possible. I don't see him answering questions at an AGM constitutes 'slagging' anyone off.

If this site only allowed folk to see the worst and didn't have anyone that saw a different view, it would be even harder work than it is.

Or maybe it should be a private club for dissenters?!

Not put anything is what you have done. Hey ho though, have your own interpretatio of what was put about the players.

Playing the victim card doesn't wash with me.

[Lord Kangana]

Regardless. Muamba had a heart attack on the pitch and it wasn't taken into consideration. He was, I recall "never picked anyway" or somesuch.

So, just like others have (quite obviously, and rightly, IMO) concluded is if he's really pissed off with certain players.... drum roll please.....

.....don't f*cking play them.


Most clubs have to deal with unruly players on a pretty much ongoing basis. Its become an all-consuming whine from our manager now. So much so, I think he's completely taken his eye off the ball, and has now even convinced himself that nothing can be achieved without his perfect set of players. He will never get them. You'd have to be a fool to think he could. Or would.

Moreover, I have a feeling that this is (subconsciously, whatever) rubbing off on the squad. Its probably fairly easy for players to stand up in front of an audience after a 7-1 humiliation, and say "yeah, sorry, but remember there's some naughty players in this squad".

Its too easy an excuse, and it needs to stop.

[Prufrock]

It wasn't taken into consideration?! He got a golden ticket from then! And yeah, he wasn't playing him, and we kept losing!

I don't think I can stress enough that against Villa at home Owen Coyle picked:

Tuncay-Pratley-Mark Davies-Eagles as a midfield 4 with Klasnic-SKD in front of it. In a premier league game! Not one of that four has ever made a tackle. Just so there's no pretence he was forced into it, as NRC was injured, and 4-4-2 the law - Muamba was on the bench. He spent a lot of time there, either watching us lose from the beginning, or coming off whilst drawing and then watching us lose.

I'm not really sure what Coyle and Muamba has to do with this, but I thought that needed mentioning in case anyone had forgotten how shit he was.

But yeah, if there are shithouses bin em. Looks like he's going to get till next year. Not really sure it's his team yet (not that he couldn't be doing better anyway) but once Knight goes, now N'Gog is hopefully gone, and a few others, no excuses then. Decidedly unconvinced it will all be fine.