Contract expiry

[Bruce Rioja]

Thanks for these updates, DSB. Surprised we've released Wilson, but other than that - no real surprises.

No problem. I find this list useful meself so I'm glad if someone else does.

I liked Wilson but in a way I like that he's gone: it suggests we have better in mind. We were always going to have to draw a line somewhere between continuity and deadheading, and he (plus maybe Dervite) felt likely to be somewhere near said line.

Have always quite liked Dervite also, of whom I've always thought, as with Wilson, that there's a decent footballer in there somewhere struggling to get out. Perfectly understand both you and BWFC-I questioning as to whether they can make the step up, but I honestly think that they'd both get more time on the ball at the higher level, but my massive question is could they both win the ball in the first place? Interesting times, I guess, in every position.

[BWFC_Insane]

Thanks for these updates, DSB. Surprised we've released Wilson, but other than that - no real surprises.

No problem. I find this list useful meself so I'm glad if someone else does.

I liked Wilson but in a way I like that he's gone: it suggests we have better in mind. We were always going to have to draw a line somewhere between continuity and deadheading, and he (plus maybe Dervite) felt likely to be somewhere near said line.

Have always quite liked Dervite also, of whom I've always thought, as with Wilson, that there's a decent footballer in there somewhere struggling to get out. Perfectly understand both you and BWFC-I questioning as to whether they can make the step up, but I honestly think that they'd both get more time on the ball at the higher level, but my massive question is could they both win the ball in the first place? Interesting times, I guess, in every position.

I'd put Dervite in a different category to be honest. I think he's good enough to play at a higher level. And has some quality. Just a question of what direction Parky wants to go. I'd like to see Dorian stay especially if we want to play a back 3. In a back 4 he's cover and perhaps fairly expensive for that.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He hasn't been released so we can safely assume Dervite has been offered terms. Given he signed in 2014, I imagine he's been asked to swallow a significant wage cut. Although I've nothing particular against him, and he gives us a good option to switch between defensive formations, I do have to wonder if we should spend that part of our budget on a faster defender, either as cover or competition for Wheavers; I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

[BWFC_Insane]

He hasn't been released so we can safely assume Dervite has been offered terms. Given he signed in 2014, I imagine he's been asked to swallow a significant wage cut. Although I've nothing particular against him, and he gives us a good option to switch between defensive formations, I do have to wonder if we should spend that part of our budget on a faster defender, either as cover or competition for Wheavers; I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Wheater looked slow in a Lennon side because he was asked to play on the half way line with little midfield protection. I think in a deeper Parky side it is a totally different ball game. Clearly mobility is a factor (I'd say rather than pace) but Wheats surprised me in how comfortable he looked covering ground in a back 3. Obviously championship sides will exploit weaknesses more but I still think if you are set up right and can read the game you are ok.

We also have Derik as a more mobile centre half option (he's no midfield player that lad).

I think Dervite isn't actually too slow, his issue is he struggles against big physical strikers so he does naturally go ok with Wheater or Beevers.

Where I do think pace is an issue (especially if we sign Andy Taylor - and we should) is full back/wing back. We could do with a right back with some speed and an engine.

[boltonboris]

He hasn't been released so we can safely assume Dervite has been offered terms. Given he signed in 2014, I imagine he's been asked to swallow a significant wage cut. Although I've nothing particular against him, and he gives us a good option to switch between defensive formations, I do have to wonder if we should spend that part of our budget on a faster defender, either as cover or competition for Wheavers; I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Wheater looked slow in a Lennon side because he was asked to play on the half way line with little midfield protection. I think in a deeper Parky side it is a totally different ball game. Clearly mobility is a factor (I'd say rather than pace) but Wheats surprised me in how comfortable he looked covering ground in a back 3. Obviously championship sides will exploit weaknesses more but I still think if you are set up right and can read the game you are ok.

We also have Derik as a more mobile centre half option (he's no midfield player that lad).

I think Dervite isn't actually too slow, his issue is he struggles against big physical strikers so he does naturally go ok with Wheater or Beevers.

Where I do think pace is an issue (especially if we sign Andy Taylor - and we should) is full back/wing back. We could do with a right back with some speed and an engine.

Juve's centre halves do alright without being quick

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Certainly positional excellence can make up for lack of pace to a certain extent, but not when people are running straight at you. Can't think of many slow centre-backs at the top sides, except the narcissist who subbed himself in the 26th minute yesterday – and it's notable how little he played this season.

[BWFC_Insane]

He hasn't been released so we can safely assume Dervite has been offered terms. Given he signed in 2014, I imagine he's been asked to swallow a significant wage cut. Although I've nothing particular against him, and he gives us a good option to switch between defensive formations, I do have to wonder if we should spend that part of our budget on a faster defender, either as cover or competition for Wheavers; I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Wheater looked slow in a Lennon side because he was asked to play on the half way line with little midfield protection. I think in a deeper Parky side it is a totally different ball game. Clearly mobility is a factor (I'd say rather than pace) but Wheats surprised me in how comfortable he looked covering ground in a back 3. Obviously championship sides will exploit weaknesses more but I still think if you are set up right and can read the game you are ok.

We also have Derik as a more mobile centre half option (he's no midfield player that lad).

I think Dervite isn't actually too slow, his issue is he struggles against big physical strikers so he does naturally go ok with Wheater or Beevers.

Where I do think pace is an issue (especially if we sign Andy Taylor - and we should) is full back/wing back. We could do with a right back with some speed and an engine.

Juve's centre halves do alright without being quick

Indeed. I'd say the best out and out defender we've had in recent times is probably Bergsson. He wasn't quick (not slow either) but read the game about as well as I've ever seen.

Personally think any defender can be made to look terrible if the team isn't structured properly around them. Few centre halves in world football look good if exposed to teams running directly at them constantly.

[BWFC_Insane]

I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Certainly positional excellence can make up for lack of pace to a certain extent, but not when people are running straight at you. Can't think of many slow centre-backs at the top sides, except the narcissist who subbed himself in the 26th minute yesterday – and it's notable how little he played this season.

How quick are Tottenham's pair? Kompany?

Not saying mobility isn't an issue, I think it is, but as I say, injury free Wheater has looked mobile enough this season. As I said previous post if your centre backs are being run at constantly, it is elsewhere in your team that needs fixing.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Certainly positional excellence can make up for lack of pace to a certain extent, but not when people are running straight at you. Can't think of many slow centre-backs at the top sides, except the narcissist who subbed himself in the 26th minute yesterday – and it's notable how little he played this season.

How quick are Tottenham's pair? Kompany?

Quicker than you think. They can all shift, and far quicker than our two. They wouldn't have that job otherwise.

Not saying mobility isn't an issue, I think it is, but as I say, injury free Wheater has looked mobile enough this season. As I said previous post if your centre backs are being run at constantly, it is elsewhere in your team that needs fixing.

...which presumably means sitting deeper, having a more compact midfield, not straying forward, trying to eke out 1-0s. That's already going to be prevalent enough. I genuinely hope you're right and history shows that I won't be able to change your mind but it strikes me as a major worry for next season. Against well-organised defences, League One sides start throwing in crosses that are meat and drink to Wheavers. In the same situation, second-tier sides – half of them bloated by Premier money - will be far more cunning, less predictable and less likely to play to our strengths.

[Prufrock]

I'm somewhere in the middle generally, but not worried about it being an issue next year. The Belgian Trio are quicker than Insano reckons. That being said, we aren't going to set up like Spurs, and I don't think PP would even if Wheavers were Cahill quick.

Morgan and Huth couldn't have won the Prem in any other team (sitting on the Chelsea bench doesn't count) for many reasons, but their lack of mobility is pretty high.

Don't think we'll be playing a high line or letting anyone get directly are them too often.

Lower mid table next year. Celebrated. Lower mid table the year after. Booed because the football "isn't good". PP leaves. We get a Tony Mowbray and get immediately relegated.

[BWFC_Insane]

I must admit I am worried about the increased pace and mobility of tier-two strikers.

I used to think that re defenders and pace. But more I watch football now, more I feel pace in a centre half is often used merely to cover up positional deficiencies and inability to read the game.

Certainly positional excellence can make up for lack of pace to a certain extent, but not when people are running straight at you. Can't think of many slow centre-backs at the top sides, except the narcissist who subbed himself in the 26th minute yesterday – and it's notable how little he played this season.

How quick are Tottenham's pair? Kompany?

Quicker than you think. They can all shift, and far quicker than our two. They wouldn't have that job otherwise.

Not saying mobility isn't an issue, I think it is, but as I say, injury free Wheater has looked mobile enough this season. As I said previous post if your centre backs are being run at constantly, it is elsewhere in your team that needs fixing.

...which presumably means sitting deeper, having a more compact midfield, not straying forward, trying to eke out 1-0s. That's already going to be prevalent enough. I genuinely hope you're right and history shows that I won't be able to change your mind but it strikes me as a major worry for next season. Against well-organised defences, League One sides start throwing in crosses that are meat and drink to Wheavers. In the same situation, second-tier sides – half of them bloated by Premier money - will be far more cunning, less predictable and less likely to play to our strengths.

Oh I agree that it will be much tougher defending next season. No doubt at times Wheater and Beevers will be exposed in various ways. I still think with a proper setup you can protect centre backs and leave them to be in charge of defending the box. It was something Allardyce preached in the premiership. We even made Radhi Jaidi look half competent.

[Bruce Rioja]

which presumably means sitting deeper, having a more compact midfield, not straying forward, trying to eke out 1-0s.

Let us not forget that Wheater was pure dogshit the last time we were in the 2nd division. I hope that what you're suggesting is exactly what Parky does.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

which presumably means sitting deeper, having a more compact midfield, not straying forward, trying to eke out 1-0s.

Let us not forget that Wheater was pure dogshit the last time we were in the 2nd division. I hope that what you're suggesting is exactly what Parky does.

Indeed, and that's all believable, but so is this:

Lower mid table next year. Celebrated. Lower mid table the year after. Booed because the football "isn't good". PP leaves. We get a Tony Mowbray and get immediately relegated.

I'm just starting to (metaphorically) sober up and look around the team, and I have a lot of questions unanswerable by anything but wait-and-see; the defence's speed (or otherwise) is only one of them. Among the others:
• Do we play 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1?
• If it's 4-2-3-1, how does ALF fit in?
• If it's 3-5-2, how does Morais fit in?
• Will they even sign?
• How important is Spearing? How good is he at this level?
• Will Parky be hidebound to a Madine who didn't always excel in the third tier, let alone the second?
• Is Vela really, honestly a second-tier No.10?
• Do we have a goalkeeper who doesn't have a mistake per match in him, and if not how costly is that going to be?

So, if I may sum up, I have question marks over the goalkeepers, centre-backs, full-backs (because we have none), defensive midfielders, creative midfielders, wide men and strikers. And, to a certain extent, a manager who hasn't got THAT much experience at this level, and certainly not against the kind of super-charged cash-happy clubs that now stomp angrily around the Championship.

But, y'know, better than the alternative. Have a nice summer!

[BWFC_Insane]

which presumably means sitting deeper, having a more compact midfield, not straying forward, trying to eke out 1-0s.

Let us not forget that Wheater was pure dogshit the last time we were in the 2nd division. I hope that what you're suggesting is exactly what Parky does.

Indeed, and that's all believable, but so is this:

Lower mid table next year. Celebrated. Lower mid table the year after. Booed because the football "isn't good". PP leaves. We get a Tony Mowbray and get immediately relegated.

I'm just starting to (metaphorically) sober up and look around the team, and I have a lot of questions unanswerable by anything but wait-and-see; the defence's speed (or otherwise) is only one of them. Among the others:
• Do we play 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1?
• If it's 4-2-3-1, how does ALF fit in?
• If it's 3-5-2, how does Morais fit in?
• Will they even sign?
• How important is Spearing? How good is he at this level?
• Will Parky be hidebound to a Madine who didn't always excel in the third tier, let alone the second?
• Is Vela really, honestly a second-tier No.10?
• Do we have a goalkeeper who doesn't have a mistake per match in him, and if not how costly is that going to be?

So, if I may sum up, I have question marks over the goalkeepers, centre-backs, full-backs (because we have none), defensive midfielders, creative midfielders, wide men and strikers. And, to a certain extent, a manager who hasn't got THAT much experience at this level, and certainly not against the kind of super-charged cash-happy clubs that now stomp angrily around the Championship.

But, y'know, better than the alternative. Have a nice summer!

It'll be reet (probably).

1) We've got the best, most sensible manager we've had in a long time.
2) Those players were poorly managed previously and lets not forget that several had previously shown their ability in the championship.
3) Parky will need to decide the system...he will
4) It might not be pretty next season but we will grind out results...whether that will be enough to keep us up in a very tricky league with the money involved now is debatable.
5) I'm sure Parky will make a few shrewd additions.

All of this is of course dependent upon KA et al sorting the off field issues and providing an embargo free window and suitable budget to Parky. That is for me the big issue and should that not happen in a relatively timely fashion then ignore 1-5 as they won't be possible.

[Bruce Rioja]

Indeed, and that's all believable, but so is this:

Lower mid table next year. Celebrated. Lower mid table the year after. Booed because the football "isn't good".

See, I've been wrestling with this for a while now. There's a whole generation of supporters now to whom last season's trips to Dale and Chesterfield and the likes will have been novel. Something that they haven't previously experienced. I find myself asking the thankfully hypothetical question as to how many of them would still be around next season had we not gone up? What is their level of expectation?
If Parky manages to keep our absolutely skint club up in a league awash with parachute payments then he'll have worked a 4ucking miracle, as far as I can see. I foresee a conflict of expectation between our own supporters here.

[BWFC_Insane]

Indeed, and that's all believable, but so is this:

Lower mid table next year. Celebrated. Lower mid table the year after. Booed because the football "isn't good".

See, I've been wrestling with this for a while now. There's a whole generation of supporters now to whom last season's trips to Dale and Chesterfield and the likes will have been novel. Something that they haven't previously experienced. I find myself asking the thankfully hypothetical question as to how many of them would still be around next season had we not gone up? What is their level of expectation?
If Parky manages to keep our absolutely skint club up in a league awash with parachute payments then he'll have worked a 4ucking miracle, as far as I can see.

Absolutely. Think Pru nails it, if we stay up next season people will be happy. Will be season after that the moans start.

Think your analysis is spot on too, many enjoyed last season as a novelty but would have disappeared had we stayed down. Having said that hopefully a promotion and backed with staying in the championship helps build a new generation of Wanderers fans.

[Joggers Nipple]

I don't think attendances will be much higher next season and will probably be even lower once we've lost a few. Bolton fans aren't very loyal when we are struggling (ST holders exempt from above statement )

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think attendances will be much higher next season and will probably be even lower once we've lost a few. Bolton fans aren't very loyal when we are struggling (ST holders exempt from above statement )

Dunno, I think that people will be realistic for one season. And the novelty of seeing many big clubs play here again will pull a few in too.

[AllanKy]

I don't think attendances will be much higher use capsiplex next season and will probably be even lower once we've lost a few. Bolton fans aren't very loyal when we are struggling (ST holders exempt from above statement )

Gotta think positive!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Updated to include the welcome re-signings of Andrew Taylor and Jem Karacan.

Contracts until June unless otherwise stated. Corrections and clarifications (with citations) always welcome.

2017
RELEASED
Lawrie Wilson, Reece Wabara, Lewis Buxton, Dean Moxey, Liam Trotter, Mark Davies, Tom Walker

LOANEES RETURNED TO PARENT CLUBS
Tom Thorpe (released by Rotherham), James Henry (released by Wolves), Chris Long (contracted to Burnley until 2018), Adam le Fondre (expecting to be released by Cardiff), Viv Solomon-Otabor (contracted to Birmingham until 2019)

NOT KNOWN AS YET
David Wheater
Dorian Dervite
Jay Spearing
Filipe Morais
Max Clayton
Gary Madine
Alex Honeyball
Callum Spooner
Alex Perry
George Newell (loaned out to AFC Fylde until June)

2018
Mark Howard
Ben Alnwick
Mark Beevers
Derik Osede
Jem Karacan ("with the option to extend for a further year")
Darren Pratley
Chris Taylor
Jamie Proctor
Conor Wilkinson (Granted permission to speak to other clubs, summer 2017)

2019
Ben Amos (loaned to Cardiff until June)
Andrew Taylor
Josh Vela

Unknown but under contract
Jack Earing, Alex Samizadeh, Jake Turner (among others)
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