Watford Away 09/08/2014 - Match Thread

[Bruce Rioja]

I've rarely seen a more incompetent 45 mins of attempted football than Pratley produced on Saturday.

Oh, I think Moxey gave him a run for his money.

[thebish]

and.... here's the thing - together, they don't actually do a very good job of shielding the defense...

[LeverEnd]

Chungy looks like all he cares about is keeping the ball, safety first. You've got to take a risk, and if you lose the ball while running at and unsettling their defence then so what? You close down and try to win it back. They did that so much better than us as well. At one point Feeney came away with the ball and was instantly surrounded by 3 players whole receiving no support from his teammates who all stayed back. We seem to have zones that we can't leave, team shape being paramount. Teams will just play around us and do.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Chungy looks like all he cares about is keeping the ball, safety first. You've got to take a risk, and if you lose the ball while running at and unsettling their defence then so what? You close down and try to win it back. They did that so much better than us as well. At one point Feeney came away with the ball and was instantly surrounded by 3 players whole receiving no support from his teammates who all stayed back. We seem to have zones that we can't leave, team shape being paramount. Teams will just play around us and do.

Did Dougie not say that we were going to keep the ball and surprise Watford? Sounds like he was under orders. Anyway, we didn't keep the ball, but at least we surprised Watford with how easy we were

[LeverEnd]

I've rarely seen a more incompetent 45 mins of attempted football than Pratley produced on Saturday.

Oh, I think Moxey gave him a run for his money.

Well yes, but he at least controlled the ball and passed it to a team-mate at least once inbetween his horrendous cock ups. What a telling discussion this is!

[LeverEnd]

Chungy looks like all he cares about is keeping the ball, safety first. You've got to take a risk, and if you lose the ball while running at and unsettling their defence then so what? You close down and try to win it back. They did that so much better than us as well. At one point Feeney came away with the ball and was instantly surrounded by 3 players whole receiving no support from his teammates who all stayed back. We seem to have zones that we can't leave, team shape being paramount. Teams will just play around us and do.

Did Dougie not say that we were going to keep the ball and surprise Watford? Sounds like he was under orders. Anyway, we didn't keep the ball, but at least we surprised Watford with how easy we were

We did pass it along the halfway line and back a couple of times. Barcelonaesque.

[wigan white]

I know Freedman goes on about using his "Doc Brown, Back to the Future, mad science" to identify players who would be suited to the club but are they actually scouted??? He says he wants to play 2 upfront but that Cravies or Beckford can't play this role???
This begs 2 questions :-
1) surely with all the deathstar technology at his hands he should be seen these 2 can't play as a 2 upfront striker?
2) why the Feck can't they play as a 2 upfront? Surely it his job and the coaches jobs to "coach" these 2 to be able to play this way? And if they really can't be taught to change how they play in a certain formation then he shouldve fecked them off instead of keeping get them and whinging about it? Which leads back to question 1 as to why he fecking bought them in the first place if they couldn't play in his system????

[bobo the clown]

If you follow the logic (sort of) ... Dougie says he inherited some big time Charlies who wouldn't buy into his coaching. The one survive of the "big time Charlies" is Chungy. He's played him consistently. That means he's bought in, I guess.

The new Chungy, clearly affected by his horrific injury, now only stops the ball and passes sideways or back. He kills the tempo. He is nowhere near as creative as he was, we recall him, we know he should be .... but he is picked week in, week out. It's reasonable to wonder if this is what he's being instructed to do and, being a good Korean, he does as he's told.

We'll find out over time I guess.

Forest should be interesting. I can't make it, I'm afraid ... but a serious seeing to and Dougie could (should) be calling Mark Robbins.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know Freedman goes on about using his "Doc Brown, Back to the Future, mad science" to identify players who would be suited to the club but are they actually scouted??? He says he wants to play 2 upfront but that Cravies or Beckford can't play this role???
This begs 2 questions :-
1) surely with all the deathstar technology at his hands he should be seen these 2 can't play as a 2 upfront striker?
2) why the Feck can't they play as a 2 upfront? Surely it his job and the coaches jobs to "coach" these 2 to be able to play this way? And if they really can't be taught to change how they play in a certain formation then he shouldve fecked them off instead of keeping get them and whinging about it? Which leads back to question 1 as to why he fecking bought them in the first place if they couldn't play in his system????

I think one could ask questions like this of any manager.

Davies was signed early and my guess is was seen as someone who could provide a more mobile option than Kevin Davies and someone who would add some workrate to the side. He was cheap and I very much doubt was signed with thoughts about partnerships and the like.

Beckford was signed with the idea of pairing him with NGog who was seen as a player capable of feeding a striker who could finish.

None of those are terrible ideas but as things have moved on we're left with the two of them.

I think what Dougie means is that sticking two players up front doesn't guarantee you owt. Deeney and Vydra are two quality players who complement each other as were the Burnley pair last season. But we don't have that and given both Beckford and Davies are struggling to really show form here playing both together (when it doesn't seem like they complement each other) isn't likely to change that.

[BWFC_Insane]

If you follow the logic (sort of) ... Dougie says he inherited some big time Charlies who wouldn't buy into his coaching. The one survive of the "big time Charlies" is Chungy. He's played him consistently. That means he's bought in, I guess.

The new Chungy, clearly affected by his horrific injury, now only stops the ball and passes sideways or back. He kills the tempo. He is nowhere near as creative as he was, we recall him, we know he should be .... but he is picked week in, week out. It's reasonable to wonder if this is what he's being instructed to do and, being a good Korean, he does as he's told.

We'll find out over time I guess.

Forest should be interesting. I can't make it, I'm afraid ... but a serious seeing to and Dougie could (should) be calling Mark Robbins.

I think it is more than injuries and instruction. I said when we came down that this league wouldn't suit Lee. And it isn't. You're rewarded for running at players and being direct in this league. Chungy never was a wide player who went at his full back. He relied on one-two's around the box and people picking out space. Yes the injury has possibly taken away a bit of confidence or some pace and yes he beats his man less than he used to. But it was never really his game.

He looked good in the more technical possession orientated premiership. You only needed to watch Wolves - Norwich yesterday to see Wolves out muscle Norwich and Wolves had the kind of winger that gets traction in this division a powerful and direct speed merchant who ended up getting Olsson sent off.

Dougie said the other day that you get 20% more out of LCY when Mark Davies plays. Which makes sense given the way Chungy plays. I don't think he suits this league or more accurately I don't think he suits having lesser players around him.

But one has to bear in mind that given his salary and ability his contribution has still been woefully poor. I suspect that he expected to be in demand and away long before now. Mind he only needs look at NGog and Eagles - free agents in August to perhaps realise that other football clubs do know who has been stealing a living elsewhere!

[jaffka]

Is that the same Chris eagles as insano was getting over excited about last season?

[LeverEnd]

This Medo/ Spearing discussion reminds me of going with my old man to that 5-4 defeat at Peterborough. We had Bogdan in goal, Warnock, Ricketts, Knight, Mears in the back 4 and Spearing and Andrews in front of them. That's 7 defensive players, all of them internationals, and they were overrun. Now with only one remaining player from that back 7 (the best of them I think), we're doing the same thing. Now I know Watford are better than P'boro and there are other factors to consider, but the main common factor is the man who is setting them up that way and coaching them to play that way.
BWFCI says that no manager could get our lot up, and he may be right. I think however that new signings will make less difference than a new positive manager who could get more out of this squad.
Or we could both be right and we've got a shit squad and a shit manager and no chance!

[Armchair Wanderer]

We did pass it along the halfway line and back a couple of times. Barcelonaesque.

Woohoo!

Maybe it was just a bad day at the office... and horrible team selection. Next time will be better!

[Riviman]

Freedman explained Moxey's inept performance by saying he'd got a kick just above his ankle after 10 mins so we lost our attacking threat down the left hand side!! What about the inept performance through the middle ????

[LeverEnd]

Freedman explained Moxey's inept performance by saying he'd got a kick just above his ankle after 10 mins so we lost our attacking threat down the left hand side!! What about the inept performance through the middle ????

I know I saw that. We struggled to attck because our LB who can't defend didn't get forward cos of his poorly foot.

Anyway Dougie also appealed for calm so less of the repeated punctuation please.

[Bruce Rioja]

Freedman explained Moxey's inept performance by saying he'd got a kick just above his ankle after 10 mins so we lost our attacking threat down the left hand side!! What about the inept performance through the middle ????

Hang on a minute - Moxey had a dreadful first 10 minutes too, including him putting Deeney through one-on-one with Lonergan 20 seconds after the kick-off. Sorry, I'm not having that, Douglas, he was fecking shit.

[jaffka]

Duggie's attempted defence of a shite debut backfires.

[TANGODANCER]

Speaking of left backs, (and since we can't have Hendrik Pedersen back) what's the score with Tierney? He's been seen slightly less than Santa Claus since he arrived.

[BWFC_Insane]

This Medo/ Spearing discussion reminds me of going with my old man to that 5-4 defeat at Peterborough. We had Bogdan in goal, Warnock, Ricketts, Knight, Mears in the back 4 and Spearing and Andrews in front of them. That's 7 defensive players, all of them internationals, and they were overrun. Now with only one remaining player from that back 7 (the best of them I think), we're doing the same thing. Now I know Watford are better than P'boro and there are other factors to consider, but the main common factor is the man who is setting them up that way and coaching them to play that way.
BWFCI says that no manager could get our lot up, and he may be right. I think however that new signings will make less difference than a new positive manager who could get more out of this squad.
Or we could both be right and we've got a shit squad and a shit manager and no chance!

Such as who? I'm all for hoping that somehow we might turn things round in the shorter rather than the longer term.

I struggle to see it though. Any new manager wants new coaches, new players and we're skint. I think Bolton is a particularly hard sell given that anyone is working against high (relatively) expectations with a relatively new set of budget restrictions. It is a tough ask.

If I was a young manager making my way in the game I'd avoid Bolton and recently relegated clubs like the plague right now.

[Harry Genshaw]

15 minutes in on Saturday and I was foreseeing another Reading style shoeing. I don't want to hear about what players we could be looking at. We look as vulnerable at the back now as we did 8 months ago despite him bringing new players in and having a full pre season to work with them. Why should he be allowed to bring any more in, if he cant fashion a defence out of what he's already had?