BW Supporters Trust

[nelson66]

Losses stabilised
Drop down the leagues halted - and promotion looking a prospect
Great ground
Great fan base (12,000 - 17,500 in league one is amazing)
Solid manager

We look ripe to be picked/sold by someone

Lets hope we get a plum

[boltonboris]

Oracle saying on twitter that the directors are informing the players that the club may be being taken over and that there is a concern over the next lot of wages being paid

Anderson Jr, denying a takeover to somebody on twitter but skirting around any financial questions

[boltonboris]

I'm not sure that I buy into the belief that it's because funds are running out. Didn't KA just a few months ago say that they were investing in upgrading our current training facilities? Unless it was lip service, you don't say something like that without the funds to back it.

You can say that if you were talking about getting a loan, which has then been refused (rumour mill)

[boltonboris]

Ken was referencing and advertising the Q&A in his program notes at the weekend. So whatever has happened, happened between presumably

Keeping the wolves at bay (BWFCST)?

Equally though IF there is a serious offer of some investment he wouldn't be doing a fans forum, given he would not be able to say much. Like I say, probably best to prepare for the worst but hope for the best. And not read too deeply into some things that literally could mean lots of things.

Whilst they've been good so far, they strike me as a bit of egotistical bunch (agents usually are), so if they had an opportunity to say they've steadied the ship and are handing it over to quillionaires, I'm sure they wouldn't miss that ovation for the world

[boltonboris]

Losses stabilised
Drop down the leagues halted - and promotion looking a prospect
Great ground
Great fan base (12,000 - 17,500 in league one is amazing)
Solid manager

We look ripe to be picked/sold by someone

Lets hope we get a plum

Problem is, that fanbase is our ceiling.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

The one area where there is no guesswork is that the accounts and other paperwork haven't been submitted!! We aren't meeting our statutory obligations and falling further behind. There are clearly problems, the guesswork is to what extent.

The problems MAY be absolutely nothing to do with our current situation and may be historical ones. We just don't know. We knew it wouldn't be plain sailing. Perhaps the falling out between Deano and Ken has impacted upon some aspects of signing off the accounts. Who knows? For now I'll give Ken a very limited period of benefit of doubt. But he's probably earned that for the progress made so far, on and off the pitch.

I see someone who has made his life's worth from buying and selling at a profit, or made money by being a middle man. Someone who was banned from being a company director for eight years. Someone who has never ran a football club, nor had the inclination to. Someone who in football ownership terms is a pauper. Someone who has fallen out with his co-owner, neither of whom have enough of their own money to manage the financial burden here. I see a complex loss making enterprise coming out of a period chaotic private ownership with seemingly lots of hidden financial issues. If he was appearing to do things up front and in a proper fashion, then fair enough. The minute promises aren't kept, statutory obligations aren't adhered to, information isn't provided to supporters, I start to become very suspicious. I think of Blackburn, Charlton, Coventry and others. I hope to be totally wrong...

[boltonboris]

"someone who has made his life's worth from buying and selling at a profit"

Isn't that the aim of the game in any industry, sport or otherwise? You can't use that against him. If fact, that should be a positive!!

[bristol_Wanderer3]

"someone who has made his life's worth from buying and selling at a profit"

Isn't that the aim of the game in any industry, sport or otherwise? You can't use that against him. If fact, that should be a positive!!

But the job here involves some administrative heavy lifting and even some proping up with his own jewels before it gets anywhere near that point. Not a simple market trade. Well maybe it will be close to that if the Saudi thing is true. We will see...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Losses stabilised
Drop down the leagues halted - and promotion looking a prospect
Great ground
Great fan base (12,000 - 17,500 in league one is amazing)
Solid manager

We look ripe to be picked/sold by someone

Lets hope we get a plum

Problem is, that fanbase is our ceiling.

Indeed, as this historical attendance list shows. And let's not forget those figures include away fans.

Our average home attendance this season is currently 14,495 - 50.46% of capacity. The opening attendance of 17,050 included 4,357 Sheffield United fans, so 12,693 Bolton fans. The 17,486 against Bradford included 4,388 Bantams, so 13,098 home fans.

Other league attendances at the Macron (combined home and away fans) this season have been, in order:
13,254
13,519
12,757
14,027
14,891
13,937
13,110
12,290 (last night)

The crowds have held up well compared to last time we were in this division (Rioch's first season, average 9,062) but that merely means that we haven't got much headroom for expansion.

[boltonboris]

We could have free tickets for the next Saturday home game for all adults and kids and we still wouldn't get 20,000 through the gates

[boltonboris]

Well I've just done some digging.

Abbar & Sons are/were a Saudi investment Group owned by the Abdelrahman A. Abbar family.

That's fine... A guy who is a corporate finanance and investment manager used to be on the board there and reports still in advisory terms.

That man is called George Bower. George used to deal with "direct business investments in food importing, distribution, logistics, construction and real estate into a cohesive Group structure to facilitate future family security & wealth. Following the passing of the founder I provided guidance & support to various family members in dealing with the eventual break up of the Group allowing family members to focus on personal business interests."

Still fine...

Except George Bower on the board of...... Bolton Wanderers Supporters' Trust.

Hmm...

[officer_dibble]

And who are abbar and sons in all this?

[TonyDomingos]

And who are abbar and sons in all this?

Had a big hit with Waterloo in the '70s.

I might be reading too much into it, but the club statement denies talks with Saudi investors. It does not deny there are talks.

When Iles raised the rumour of the Saudi bid with Anderson on the day of the Peterborough game, he simply made a crack about being the last to know. No mention of the rumour being "unhelpful", less still a rush to issue a statement.

I'm suspicious by nature!

[bristol_Wanderer3]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

[Hoboh]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

I wonder how long these shenanigans will stay off the pitch?

Things seem to be picking up a head of steam.

[LeverEnd]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

I wonder how long these shenanigans will stay off the pitch?

Things seem to be picking up a head of steam.

Well January is the time really. Wages, transfers in and out, I'd say by the end of that month well know how fecked we are (or aren't, to be positive).

[BWFC_Insane]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

If your finance plan is leveraged borrowing (as was described during the takeover) then I suspect it presents a great problem in terms of directors 12 months statement if you rely on borrowing but only have access to half the assets with the other half owned by someone not willing to co-operate.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

If your finance plan is leveraged borrowing (as was described during the takeover) then I suspect it presents a great problem in terms of directors 12 months statement if you rely on borrowing but only have access to half the assets with the other half owned by someone not willing to co-operate.

Possibly. That would suggest Holdsworth is basically saying something like "I am not signing anything off till I get my money"?? Because the 2015 accounts is for a period neither were at the club, and any submissions about the fundamental business plan going forward are unlikely to have changed?

[Beefheart]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

If your finance plan is leveraged borrowing (as was described during the takeover) then I suspect it presents a great problem in terms of directors 12 months statement if you rely on borrowing but only have access to half the assets with the other half owned by someone not willing to co-operate.

Possibly. That would suggest Holdsworth is basically saying something like "I am not signing anything off till I get my money"?? Because the 2015 accounts is for a period neither were at the club, and any submissions about the fundamental business plan going forward are unlikely to have changed?

Nah, you only need one director to sign off accounts and I can't see em needing deanos approval to do so.

[BWFC_Insane]

BEN is suggesting it is the Holdsworth/Anderson breakdown in relations that is the source of any current issues. Hopefully it is as simple as Deano selling his share to sort things out. Hard to understand how that prevents 2015 accounts being submitted but...

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ers_stake/

If your finance plan is leveraged borrowing (as was described during the takeover) then I suspect it presents a great problem in terms of directors 12 months statement if you rely on borrowing but only have access to half the assets with the other half owned by someone not willing to co-operate.

Possibly. That would suggest Holdsworth is basically saying something like "I am not signing anything off till I get my money"?? Because the 2015 accounts is for a period neither were at the club, and any submissions about the fundamental business plan going forward are unlikely to have changed?

No. It means if the forward business plan is leveraging finance against assets and the owners aren't on the same page, Ken who seemingly has control in decision making terms at least, only has 50% of the assets to play with. Which may not be enough to secure funding to satisfy the auditors of the viability of the business hence the delay in signing off accounts.

Pure speculation. May also be as simple as Ken wanting to buy Deano out to bring in further investment or seize full control. Either way I've long suspected this would happen and probably best if sorted quickly.