Away at Mick McCarthy's Super Ipswich Town

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

SORDELL Came on for Dawson in the last minute after we conceded. Not sure he touched the ball, but he did give his shirt to a fan.

I know the young fella that got the shirt. He was ball boy for the day and it capped off a dream day for him

Good to hear. Couple that with the ticket giveaway and you've got decent evidence that not every footballer's a knobhead...

I dare say a good number of them are fairly decent. Probably doesn't sell as many papers as the usual stories though...

[Worthy4England]

Out of interest, are there any stats for our strikers for goals per games this season? Or I guess the number of goals they've scored against the number of starts they've made?

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd ... Tabs=stats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers.

So in terms of "league goals per start" the list in order of "best to worst" goes....

Craig Davies - 0.67
David NGog - 0.33
Marvin Sordell - 0.29
Kevin Davies - 0.21

On that basis, given I think outside the box he contributes at least as much as, if not more than the others "outside the box" in general play, NGog playing seems fair enough.

The Craig Davies stat is clearly a bit false given the low number of starts.

And I think it's hard to make any sort of a case for Kevin Davies starting ahead of the other three, especially instead of NGog.

Well let me put this a slightly different way, N'gog has scored at least 3 of his 6 I think coming on a sub when some other fecker's tired the defence out.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I've no problem with Ngog in behind one. Problem for me is who. CD did a good job of tiring the defence but didn't link well with Ngog. Somehow it didn't feel like a game for Sordell - perhaps it was that Ipswich were defending deep and rugged - so it wasn't astonishing to see KD rumble on. And, like I say, he didn't embarrass himself... Although those who remember him at his best could see the difference.

Trouble is that none of the three (or four) represent a consistent threat.

[Worthy4England]

I've no problem with Ngog in behind one. Problem for me is who. CD did a good job of tiring the defence but didn't link well with Ngog. Somehow it didn't feel like a game for Sordell - perhaps it was that Ipswich were defending deep and rugged - so it wasn't astonishing to see KD rumble on. And, like I say, he didn't embarrass himself... Although those who remember him at his best could see the difference.

Trouble is that none of the three (or four) represent a consistent threat.

Pretty much where I'm at with it. Whilst I can absolutely see Davo's probably nearing the end of his career, none of the others are setting the world alight either, however the "rationale" is that N'gog is that much better, because he's doing something "intangible" behind the one...N'gog is also injury prone and even when he's not injured, invariably doesn't last the full 90 (11 times in nearly two seasons). He's fecking stealing a living.

[officer_dibble]

Assuming we are still here next season is there a case for swapping Kev for a goalscorer at this level? Like an Earnshaw from.a few years ago?

[Worthy4England]

Assuming we are still here next season is there a case for swapping Kev for a goalscorer at this level? Like an Earnshaw from.a few years ago?

I think there is. We could do the same wih N'gog and maybe get two

[BWFC_Insane]

I've no problem with Ngog in behind one. Problem for me is who. CD did a good job of tiring the defence but didn't link well with Ngog. Somehow it didn't feel like a game for Sordell - perhaps it was that Ipswich were defending deep and rugged - so it wasn't astonishing to see KD rumble on. And, like I say, he didn't embarrass himself... Although those who remember him at his best could see the difference.

Trouble is that none of the three (or four) represent a consistent threat.

Pretty much where I'm at with it. Whilst I can absolutely see Davo's probably nearing the end of his career, none of the others are setting the world alight either, however the "rationale" is that N'gog is that much better, because he's doing something "intangible" behind the one...N'gog is also injury prone and even when he's not injured, invariably doesn't last the full 90 (11 times in nearly two seasons). He's fecking stealing a living.

I think the rationale is that statisticall he's far more likely to score than Kevin Davies, and he can move at something faster than snails pace.

And he can beat a man.

End of the day he's more likely than Davies to score and certainly contributes as much if not more elsewhere. And as DSB says does that withdrawn role well, working hard at times to track back.

For me he starts, with one of the others.

[Worthy4England]

I've no problem with Ngog in behind one. Problem for me is who. CD did a good job of tiring the defence but didn't link well with Ngog. Somehow it didn't feel like a game for Sordell - perhaps it was that Ipswich were defending deep and rugged - so it wasn't astonishing to see KD rumble on. And, like I say, he didn't embarrass himself... Although those who remember him at his best could see the difference.

Trouble is that none of the three (or four) represent a consistent threat.

Pretty much where I'm at with it. Whilst I can absolutely see Davo's probably nearing the end of his career, none of the others are setting the world alight either, however the "rationale" is that N'gog is that much better, because he's doing something "intangible" behind the one...N'gog is also injury prone and even when he's not injured, invariably doesn't last the full 90 (11 times in nearly two seasons). He's fecking stealing a living.

I think the rationale is that statisticall he's far more likely to score than Kevin Davies, and he can move at something faster than snails pace.

And he can beat a man.

End of the day he's more likely than Davies to score and certainly contributes as much if not more elsewhere. And as DSB says does that withdrawn role well, working hard at times to track back.

For me he starts, with one of the others.

He's only statistically far more likely to score, if:

1) He's been picked - which for whatever reason this Manager and the previous one see a reason not to do.
2) He's not injured - he's a bit of a sicknote.
3) He's on the pitch - eleven - that's eleven out of the last 76 matches in the League that he's managed 90 minutes.

I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison with Davo, who I believe is certainly past his best - I just don't think N'gog is the answer

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've no problem with Ngog in behind one. Problem for me is who. CD did a good job of tiring the defence but didn't link well with Ngog. Somehow it didn't feel like a game for Sordell - perhaps it was that Ipswich were defending deep and rugged - so it wasn't astonishing to see KD rumble on. And, like I say, he didn't embarrass himself... Although those who remember him at his best could see the difference.

Trouble is that none of the three (or four) represent a consistent threat.

Pretty much where I'm at with it. Whilst I can absolutely see Davo's probably nearing the end of his career, none of the others are setting the world alight either, however the "rationale" is that N'gog is that much better, because he's doing something "intangible" behind the one...N'gog is also injury prone and even when he's not injured, invariably doesn't last the full 90 (11 times in nearly two seasons). He's fecking stealing a living.

I think the rationale is that statisticall he's far more likely to score than Kevin Davies, and he can move at something faster than snails pace.

And he can beat a man.

End of the day he's more likely than Davies to score and certainly contributes as much if not more elsewhere. And as DSB says does that withdrawn role well, working hard at times to track back.

For me he starts, with one of the others.

He's only statistically far more likely to score, if:

1) He's been picked - which for whatever reason this Manager and the previous one see a reason not to do.
2) He's not injured - he's a bit of a sicknote.
3) He's on the pitch - eleven - that's eleven out of the last 76 matches in the League that he's managed 90 minutes.

I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison with Davo, who I believe is certainly past his best - I just don't think N'gog is the answer

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

Fair enough. Although to be fair since we've played this new system, Ngog has been an ever present has he not, with Sordell, Craig and Kevin all rotating alongside him.

Personally I'm not sure any of the rest are suited to the role anyhow....

[boltonboris]

Craig Davies looks like he could be alright without being very good. Unintelligent runner, poor touch, but pretty athletic.

[Prufrock]

We all dream of a team full of D-Pratz, a team full of D-Pratz!

[Enoch]

I don't think N'Gog is the answer; I do think N'Gog is the pick of the four mentioned for that role.

[norm the jedi]

I don't think N'Gog is the answer; I do think N'Gog is the pick of the four mentioned for that role.

This.

He's the least worst option but he's not going to carry us out of this division on the back of his scoring... Oh for a Super John or an Andy Walker

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think N'Gog is the answer; I do think N'Gog is the pick of the four mentioned for that role.

This.

He's the least worst option but he's not going to carry us out of this division on the back of his scoring... Oh for a Super John or an Andy Walker

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.

Pair NGog with a goalscorer and we could have a very good partnership.

However, everyone would say the same at just about any club, I suspect.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

My impressions of Sordell and Cravies are that they're both front-runners, line-leaders - so you might end up with a flatter 4-4-2 with neither of them tracking back (leading to overload in midfield).

Alternatively you could get Cravies running willingly from the right wing (with Eagles behind Sordell and Chungy left) but he's not looked like a link-man or the creator of the final ball. It could be that he's taking time to gel with his team-mates - or it could be, as Boris suggests, that he's simply not that intelligent a footballer. Not that he's useless, but that his uses aren't linking with team-mates.

[Worthy4England]

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

My impressions of Sordell and Cravies are that they're both front-runners, line-leaders - so you might end up with a flatter 4-4-2 with neither of them tracking back (leading to overload in midfield).

Alternatively you could get Cravies running willingly from the right wing (with Eagles behind Sordell and Chungy left) but he's not looked like a link-man or the creator of the final ball. It could be that he's taking time to gel with his team-mates - or it could be, as Boris suggests, that he's simply not that intelligent a footballer. Not that he's useless, but that his uses aren't linking with team-mates.

Part of my contention Mr Barnet, is that the compulsory nature of having a link-man, probably isn't that compulsory. Cravies seems to track back and make a general nuisance of himself. Less sure about Sordell. I agree that there is undoubtedly a risk of midfield overload. N'gog certainly is the best of the four in that link-man role, but I look in the round and say the bloke has managed 11 full games in the best part of two years, so how integral to us can it be? Of the 11 games he's completed in two years, we've won 2 ( very recently) drawn 2 and lost 7. (Only glanced at league matches).

I know that the losses aren't all N'gog's fault, and I'm not seeking to lay the blame for them at his door. My contention is that if we need that role, be it up top as part of a 5 in midfield, or link in a two forwards formation, then there's got to be much better value than our current £4.5m misfit.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

My impressions of Sordell and Cravies are that they're both front-runners, line-leaders - so you might end up with a flatter 4-4-2 with neither of them tracking back (leading to overload in midfield).

Alternatively you could get Cravies running willingly from the right wing (with Eagles behind Sordell and Chungy left) but he's not looked like a link-man or the creator of the final ball. It could be that he's taking time to gel with his team-mates - or it could be, as Boris suggests, that he's simply not that intelligent a footballer. Not that he's useless, but that his uses aren't linking with team-mates.

Part of my contention Mr Barnet, is that the compulsory nature of having a link-man, probably isn't that compulsory. Cravies seems to track back and make a general nuisance of himself. Less sure about Sordell. I agree that there is undoubtedly a risk of midfield overload. N'gog certainly is the best of the four in that link-man role, but I look in the round and say the bloke has managed 11 full games in the best part of two years, so how integral to us can it be? Of the 11 games he's completed in two years, we've won 2 ( very recently) drawn 2 and lost 7. (Only glanced at league matches).

I know that the losses aren't all N'gog's fault, and I'm not seeking to lay the blame for them at his door. My contention is that if we need that role, be it up top as part of a 5 in midfield, or link in a two forwards formation, then there's got to be much better value than our current £4.5m misfit.

But I think there are two things there....

NGog was a bad buy for the money and the situation. He didn't fit that well into a 1 up front system, NOR was he a goalscoring foil for Kevin Davies. So was a poor, poor buy.

He is now, the best bet, to make the system we're playing work. And yes we do need that link player. It is noticeable how much he makes the system tick. The fact is that he has the mobility to get around the pitch and is quite a clever footballer.

Ultimately I think keeping NGog for next season would work out as better value than keeping KD. But that's my opinion more than anything else. I'd not be overly fussed if neither were here, though I do think in the right circumstances NGog could definitely add something.

[89bwfc89]

SORDELL Came on for Dawson in the last minute after we conceded. Not sure he touched the ball, but he did give his shirt to a fan.

I know the young fella that got the shirt. He was ball boy for the day and it capped off a dream day for him

Story in the BeN today reporting that Jay Spearing arranged for a young fan to be given another shirt after having one stolen. Nice to read.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/102 ... ____shirt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Worthy4England]

I'd be sorely tempted to try Sordell and Cravies.

My impressions of Sordell and Cravies are that they're both front-runners, line-leaders - so you might end up with a flatter 4-4-2 with neither of them tracking back (leading to overload in midfield).

Alternatively you could get Cravies running willingly from the right wing (with Eagles behind Sordell and Chungy left) but he's not looked like a link-man or the creator of the final ball. It could be that he's taking time to gel with his team-mates - or it could be, as Boris suggests, that he's simply not that intelligent a footballer. Not that he's useless, but that his uses aren't linking with team-mates.

Part of my contention Mr Barnet, is that the compulsory nature of having a link-man, probably isn't that compulsory. Cravies seems to track back and make a general nuisance of himself. Less sure about Sordell. I agree that there is undoubtedly a risk of midfield overload. N'gog certainly is the best of the four in that link-man role, but I look in the round and say the bloke has managed 11 full games in the best part of two years, so how integral to us can it be? Of the 11 games he's completed in two years, we've won 2 ( very recently) drain 2 and lost 7. (Only glanced at league matches).

I know that the losses aren't all N'gog's fault, and I'm not seeking to lay the blame for them at his door. My contention is that if we need that role, be it up top as part of a 5 in midfield, or link in a two forwards formation, then there's got to be much better value than our current £4.5m misfit.

But I think there are two things there....

NGog was a bad buy for the money and the situation. He didn't fit that well into a 1 up front system, NOR was he a goalscoring foil for Kevin Davies. So was a poor, poor buy.

He is now, the best bet, to make the system we're playing work. And yes we do need that link player. It is noticeable how much he makes the system tick. The fact is that he has the mobility to get around the pitch and is quite a clever footballer.

Ultimately I think keeping NGog for next season would work out as better value than keeping KD. But that's my opinion more than anything else. I'd not be overly fussed if neither were here, though I do think in the right circumstances NGog could definitely add something.

I disagree that he's making the system tick. If Eagles has a bad un you notice it, same with Spearing and increasingly Pratley and Chungy. Any of our forwards have a bad un and there's little discernable difference (certainly when they're N'gog and Davo)

[LeverEnd]

I don't think he should be criticised for not usually lasting 90 mins, he runs himself ragged and then gets taken off for fresh legs (or SKD!). No shame in that.