Kick off with a glass or two of claret!

[ChrisC]

Bit of a struggle for both teams on sat. Happy with a point.

Some positives to consider. Pratley's appreciation society is growing in members by the hour, MoTM by a mile. Beckford was making some nice runs, and hopefully with practice the timing will improve so he can get behind defences, and wingers/pratters can run into the space he creates. Both newbie fullbacks looked ok.

Some negatives. SLOWEST DEFENCE IN THE WORLD. Lee looks like he's lacking some match practice a tad (Tierney was none to happy with him). Andrews was anonymous. Need to flood the box more when attacking. Didn't do it much on crosses, but did it well for the goal. Bogdan and the defence inspire the equal amount of confidence in each other, which is none.


Any news on Eagles' injury? Hopefully just the knock it looked like.

Still, much to build on, much to improve. Onwards and upwards/

Eagles is fine mate. Just rolled his ankle.

[mrkint]

Aye thought so. Good to have it confirmed though.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bit of a struggle for both teams on sat. Happy with a point.

Some positives to consider. Pratley's appreciation society is growing in members by the hour, MoTM by a mile. Beckford was making some nice runs, and hopefully with practice the timing will improve so he can get behind defences, and wingers/pratters can run into the space he creates. Both newbie fullbacks looked ok.

Some negatives. SLOWEST DEFENCE IN THE WORLD. Lee looks like he's lacking some match practice a tad (Tierney was none to happy with him). Andrews was anonymous. Need to flood the box more when attacking. Didn't do it much on crosses, but did it well for the goal. Bogdan and the defence inspire the equal amount of confidence in each other, which is none.


Any news on Eagles' injury? Hopefully just the knock it looked like.

Still, much to build on, much to improve. Onwards and upwards/

Eagles is fine mate. Just rolled his ankle.

On this twitter feed it has something about Eagles being on crutches after the game and going for a scan. So I'd not be getting too giddy just yet.

https://twitter.com/TFS_Bolton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ChrisC]

Bit of a struggle for both teams on sat. Happy with a point.

Some positives to consider. Pratley's appreciation society is growing in members by the hour, MoTM by a mile. Beckford was making some nice runs, and hopefully with practice the timing will improve so he can get behind defences, and wingers/pratters can run into the space he creates. Both newbie fullbacks looked ok.

Some negatives. SLOWEST DEFENCE IN THE WORLD. Lee looks like he's lacking some match practice a tad (Tierney was none to happy with him). Andrews was anonymous. Need to flood the box more when attacking. Didn't do it much on crosses, but did it well for the goal. Bogdan and the defence inspire the equal amount of confidence in each other, which is none.


Any news on Eagles' injury? Hopefully just the knock it looked like.

Still, much to build on, much to improve. Onwards and upwards/

Eagles is fine mate. Just rolled his ankle.

On this twitter feed it has something about Eagles being on crutches after the game and going for a scan. So I'd not be getting too giddy just yet.

https://twitter.com/TFS_Bolton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dougie said himself that Eagles is fine and was gutted to come off in the end (presuming he means that Eagles felt fine 5 minutes after coming off).

[BWFC_Insane]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/10 ... an/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dougie talks about character and bottle.

[thebish]

Insane.. you have sanely and sensibly said that we shouldn't be too vexed about a patient rebuilding of the club... patient rebuilding doesn't often go alongside promotion push...

this was suggested a couple of times at the start of last season (you responded particularly vehemently to Jaffka, for one, when he suggested we night finish mid-table and it would be the end of the world) - you said that not getting promoted last season would be a total unmitigated disaster from which we would never be likely to recover...

now - despite what you might think - I am genuinely interested where your line of thought is going here...

do you think that not getting promoted THIS season would be a total and unmitigated disaster? or has your view mellowed a bit - maybe because you trust the manager more to be ABLE to build over a longer period? Your original reason for describing the failure to get promoted as an unmitigated disaster was that the parachute payments tail off...

[BWFC_Insane]

Insane.. you have sanely and sensibly said that we shouldn't be too vexed about a patient rebuilding of the club... patient rebuilding doesn't often go alongside promotion push...

this was suggested a couple of times at the start of last season (you responded particularly vehemently to Jaffka, for one, when he suggested we night finish mid-table and it would be the end of the world) - you said that not getting promoted last season would be a total unmitigated disaster from which we would never be likely to recover...

now - despite what you might think - I am genuinely interested where your line of thought is going here...

do you think that not getting promoted THIS season would be a total and unmitigated disaster? or has your view mellowed a bit - maybe because you trust the manager more to be ABLE to build over a longer period? Your original reason for describing the failure to get promoted as an unmitigated disaster was that the parachute payments tail off...

Bish it's a good question, I will try and answer it.

I still think not getting promoted last season was very very bad and it may well prove to be something which takes a long time to recover. I'm anxious that the club backs Freedman in the market this time round to get us up. I've explained I think we're short of being real promotion (automatic at least) contenders. So I'd like that to happen. Given where we are, I'll be surprised if it does.

I know you're not going to like this, but the manager is relevant IMO. When we came down we had a manager who said in his own words "this is the best group I've had, the group I've always wanted, we are going for promotion etc etc." He was given that chance and it was a disaster and clearly his estimations of what we had (and mine but that really doesn't matter for the wellbeing of BWFC) were wrong. Very very wrong. Perhaps he mis-read the strength of the division or the way teams played. Whatever it was a huge mis-calculation. Piled on top of some very naive management. But when you say those sorts of things I think fans will be bound to expect promotion or at the very least a real stab at it.

When Freedman came in he had a mess to sort out. He's alluded to the fact that he is still sorting it out. I still think that we're carrying players that haven't performed for this club to the required level on a conisistent basis ever and I suspect that they may never actually do so. Perhaps it is they have lost confidence and just need that move away.

What I'm getting at is yes, I think failure to go up will be a bad thing for the club. I think in many ways the damage was done in relegation and the start of the next season. I do think we've got a good manager now who can achieve things on a smaller budget if necessary. I do think that were we to stay down again it gets incredibly, incredibly hard. But as a club we don't seem to be really "going for it" in terms of splashing out to compete with some of those clubs like Forest, and the relegated ones who are spending money. I also don't think we're quite yet in a place where Dougie has the squad shaped in such a way that we can circumvent a smaller budget in the transfer market with some clever management. We're still carrying too many players who I don't think are really "in the project" if that makes sense. Andrews, Mills, Ream, Mears, possibly even Knight etc are all IMO being carried because we have to rather than through real choice. Not really an excuse, you have to work with what you've got, but I don't quite feel that we have enough players who really WANT to prove points here.

I am very worried about the future for the club. I'm looking at Coventry and others who slipped down (Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc) and some have bounced back, others haven't so much. I fear there is more chance of going that way than restoring the level we had. Not because of the manager, but just because it seems once clubs get on a downward spiral it becomes a real tough road back.

In short, yes we should make every effort to go up - it is obviously massively important. And that means getting a couple more players in. If we had Dawson and Spearing in now, and didn't suffer from a ridiculous set of injuries and didn't go up I'd probably be looking Freedman's way and saying "not good enough". As it stands I'm frustrated (in a frustrated rather than demanding way) that we haven't been able to get key players, because seemingly we don't have the money or are adhering to FFP etc. It seems the manager is frustrated too (though again possibly in a more general way than in a Redknapp give me money or I walk way). But I am way more optimistic that with Dougie in charge we have a proper manager who will make the right decisions based on where we are and what we've got to work with. My issue with Coyle was about a lot more than results, it was a feeling that the whole structure was slipping away and we had very little to hang onto. Now with the desire to actually produce our own players, a manager who wants to buy younger players to mix in with more experienced heads and a fitness and scouting network back in place having been taken away previously I feel we have more substance. More about us should results not go our way immediately and I believe a long term plan that hopefully will at least keep us going as a championship club and a competitive one at that, even on a smaller budget.

Obviously promotion will make a massive difference to what we can do. I don't want to degenerate into a Coyle vs Freedman debate either. I've listened to both at fans forums, read interviews, watched their teams observed their backroom set ups etc. I would rather have Dougie and a £1.50 and a packet of crisps budget than Coyle and £100M to spend and that is my honest opinion, and nothing this season will change that in the slightest. If people disagree then it's a free country, but that is where I'm at.

[leyther95]

Not looking into this game to much. Could see a couple of players were off full fitness. Would like to see Dougie going with 2 up top however with our current defence it would be hard to manage. All in all. Take a point and move on. UNBEATEN

[thebish]

Insane.. you have sanely and sensibly said that we shouldn't be too vexed about a patient rebuilding of the club... patient rebuilding doesn't often go alongside promotion push...

this was suggested a couple of times at the start of last season (you responded particularly vehemently to Jaffka, for one, when he suggested we night finish mid-table and it would be the end of the world) - you said that not getting promoted last season would be a total unmitigated disaster from which we would never be likely to recover...

now - despite what you might think - I am genuinely interested where your line of thought is going here...

do you think that not getting promoted THIS season would be a total and unmitigated disaster? or has your view mellowed a bit - maybe because you trust the manager more to be ABLE to build over a longer period? Your original reason for describing the failure to get promoted as an unmitigated disaster was that the parachute payments tail off...

Bish it's a good question, I will try and answer it.

I still think not getting promoted last season was very very bad and it may well prove to be something which takes a long time to recover. I'm anxious that the club backs Freedman in the market this time round to get us up. I've explained I think we're short of being real promotion (automatic at least) contenders. So I'd like that to happen. Given where we are, I'll be surprised if it does.

I know you're not going to like this, but the manager is relevant IMO. When we came down we had a manager who said in his own words "this is the best group I've had, the group I've always wanted, we are going for promotion etc etc." He was given that chance and it was a disaster and clearly his estimations of what we had (and mine but that really doesn't matter for the wellbeing of BWFC) were wrong. Very very wrong. Perhaps he mis-read the strength of the division or the way teams played. Whatever it was a huge mis-calculation. Piled on top of some very naive management. But when you say those sorts of things I think fans will be bound to expect promotion or at the very least a real stab at it.

When Freedman came in he had a mess to sort out. He's alluded to the fact that he is still sorting it out. I still think that we're carrying players that haven't performed for this club to the required level on a conisistent basis ever and I suspect that they may never actually do so. Perhaps it is they have lost confidence and just need that move away.

What I'm getting at is yes, I think failure to go up will be a bad thing for the club. I think in many ways the damage was done in relegation and the start of the next season. I do think we've got a good manager now who can achieve things on a smaller budget if necessary. I do think that were we to stay down again it gets incredibly, incredibly hard. But as a club we don't seem to be really "going for it" in terms of splashing out to compete with some of those clubs like Forest, and the relegated ones who are spending money. I also don't think we're quite yet in a place where Dougie has the squad shaped in such a way that we can circumvent a smaller budget in the transfer market with some clever management. We're still carrying too many players who I don't think are really "in the project" if that makes sense. Andrews, Mills, Ream, Mears, possibly even Knight etc are all IMO being carried because we have to rather than through real choice. Not really an excuse, you have to work with what you've got, but I don't quite feel that we have enough players who really WANT to prove points here.

I am very worried about the future for the club. I'm looking at Coventry and others who slipped down (Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc) and some have bounced back, others haven't so much. I fear there is more chance of going that way than restoring the level we had. Not because of the manager, but just because it seems once clubs get on a downward spiral it becomes a real tough road back.

In short, yes we should make every effort to go up - it is obviously massively important. And that means getting a couple more players in. If we had Dawson and Spearing in now, and didn't suffer from a ridiculous set of injuries and didn't go up I'd probably be looking Freedman's way and saying "not good enough". As it stands I'm frustrated (in a frustrated rather than demanding way) that we haven't been able to get key players, because seemingly we don't have the money or are adhering to FFP etc. It seems the manager is frustrated too (though again possibly in a more general way than in a Redknapp give me money or I walk way). But I am way more optimistic that with Dougie in charge we have a proper manager who will make the right decisions based on where we are and what we've got to work with. My issue with Coyle was about a lot more than results, it was a feeling that the whole structure was slipping away and we had very little to hang onto. Now with the desire to actually produce our own players, a manager who wants to buy younger players to mix in with more experienced heads and a fitness and scouting network back in place having been taken away previously I feel we have more substance. More about us should results not go our way immediately and I believe a long term plan that hopefully will at least keep us going as a championship club and a competitive one at that, even on a smaller budget.

Obviously promotion will make a massive difference to what we can do. I don't want to degenerate into a Coyle vs Freedman debate either. I've listened to both at fans forums, read interviews, watched their teams observed their backroom set ups etc. I would rather have Dougie and a £1.50 and a packet of crisps budget than Coyle and £100M to spend and that is my honest opinion, and nothing this season will change that in the slightest. If people disagree then it's a free country, but that is where I'm at.

thanks!

^ nowt I'd disagree with there, I don't think I live in the camp that says we would never come back from not getting straight back up - you and I have lived through relegations down to division four and then our rise back up... I guess it depends how patient we are..

I have certainly not abandoned hope that dougie is good enough to manage a good squad and get us automatically promoted this season - but if he doesn't, I don't think it is the end of the world...

I do suspect that the glory days of a sustained period in the top 8 of the Premier League are probably gone for the foreseeable future - our involvement with the premier League will (I think) always be a precarious one - hanging on by our fingertips - but that doesn't stop me wanting to achieve promotion...

[Lord Kangana]

We were making a horrendous loss year-on-year just by staying up, so I'm not sure the model we had is in anyway workable in the long term anyway. And the overwhelming majority of clubs who go up will come down. Thats life in football these days.

[BWFC_Insane]

We were making a horrendous loss year-on-year just by staying up, so I'm not sure the model we had is in anyway workable in the long term anyway. And the overwhelming majority of clubs who go up will come down. Thats life in football these days.

This is true. The rise in money in the premiership though, could if we keep a tighter control on our budgets and perhaps are more mindful of bringing young players throug and perhaps picking off young players before anyone else does, let us reverse the loss making trend.

For a long time this club has talked about academies, buying youth, bringing our own through, exploring young players in previously "untapped markets" and we haven't done so. I'm sure it is not easy.

But none of our previous managers and to be fair to Megson and Coyle they probably didn't have the time to do so, made us in any way self reliant. And it is a failure. We're not bringing a young player into the squad every season, we've not managed to buy young players and bring them through.

It is the only way long term we can run this football club. I really hope that Dougie not only talks the talk in this regard, but walks the walk. I genuinely feel he wants to, which is a start.

But it is not something that happens overnight.

[Lord Kangana]

On the contrary, I don't see anything different to what has been done in the past re:youth development to what is being done now. Beyond rhetoric, what is the difference?

[StaffsTrotter]

indeed the conundrum is for all the money and facilities put into academise etc the quality of UK footballers still seems relatively poor and to compete in the premier is seems you have to stuff your teams full of foreign players

throw on top of that the competition for kids is as intense as ever - didn't Real M sign a 10yr old yank last week and that someone may come in and pinch the youngster you have developed e.g us with H White, I'd have thought that you can't hang all your hope on producing youngsters

[BWFC_Insane]

On the contrary, I don't see anything different to what has been done in the past re:youth development to what is being done now. Beyond rhetoric, what is the difference?

For example. The club have for the first time, mirrored their scouting and analysis network for the first team with the same structure with the U21s.

So we have a specialist technical scout who will identify the best markets to bring young players into our development squad from and scouts who will focus solely on that end of things. In addition all the performance analysis that is applied to the first team will also be available to the U21's with again a dedicated analyst working with them.

This summer we've signed a number of young players too. For example that Fraser has gone on loan to Partick Thistle. And we have signed the two youngsters from Wednesday and Millwall.

[Lord Kangana]

We signed Marvin Sordell (and, again, lets cut the crap, he was an incredibly promising young player when we did), and that young chap from Burnley and loaned him out (I forget his name, where the f*ck is he now?). Whats the difference, other than hindsight?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Can I add the million quid wonderkid from Wolves to LK's list? Even Allardyce bought young players. On the whole our youth set-up has produced almost feck all for the time it has been going, regardless of which manager we've had.

[BWFC_Insane]

We signed Marvin Sordell (and, again, lets cut the crap, he was an incredibly promising young player when we did), and that young chap from Burnley and loaned him out (I forget his name, where the f*ck is he now?). Whats the difference, other than hindsight?

Come on paying £3M for 21 year olds is not what we're talking about here.

I'm talking about making ourselves more self-sufficient.

Which means picking out young players before anyone notices them and developing them here. Or developing our own.

We've actually put in place a structure that hopefully will help with that. Allied to the academy that Phillips and Sammy Lee are running.

It is going to take time, there are no guarantees. But you asked for what was happening and I gave examples. It is not just a manager saying "I want to have young players and develop them". The club are actually trying to move towards that goal at the very least. We won't know if they're going the right way about it for a fair while yet. But there seems to be something more behind it, than spending millions on young players who end up being loaned out to get their wages off the books.

[SmokinFrazier]

I lose faith in his ability as a tactician. I see us a poor side that is flawed in several areas but the biggest worry for me is how few good chances we create. How many times have we dominated and outplayed an opposing team under Freedman? In how many games have we looked threatening all match? I don't think it's good enough, honestly. I think we should be better and I think we'll need to be if we are going to get promoted.

FFS can you for once just see things as half full rather than half or totally empty? You must be a real ray of sunshine to sit down and have a chat with

This transfer window has been the first chance Dougie has had a proper chance to shake things up, move players on and bring new ones in. I remind you that it hasn't closed yet. There will be more comings and goings. He managed to do a bit of business in January, but we all know that January is rarely a time you can really change things.

Dougie is the first to admit things aren't where they need to be. He's clearly restricted with funds and that makes it much harder to change the squad. He's (by the look of it) improved the full backs. We've 1 creative player fit (2ish when CYL turns up). He's brought Moritz in who hasn't had any proper training all season. He's addressed it, but we wont see if it works until he can play. We have a bunch of strikers that couldn't score in a brothel. He's brought one in that scores goals at this level.

There is more to do. We all know that. He's had tuppence and ha'penny and I think he's done a fine job with it. Better than any manager could have since we had Allardyce. Until we have a decent CB to partner Wheater of Knight we're going to struggle. Until we've got a midfielder that can genuinely sit and allow the more creative types and up and downers do their work, we're going to struggle. Beckford has been with us 5 minutes. Give Eagles et al a couple more weeks and you'll probably see them threading the ball into the right areas for him.

So, in summary. Cheer up. You'll feel better. Let Dougie get on with it without the doom and gloom and if things aren't improved by a couple of weeks after the window closes then by all means let the storm clouds gather...

Like I've said before, I would like us to bring in some more quality but those individuals we could bring in won't remove the flaws within the team. There's a problem with the tactics that are being used. When the rumours of Jordan Rhodes coming in were being bandied about, I think every Bolton fan was excited about that but when the service to our strikers is as poor as it currently is, what difference would a striker like Rhodes make? There were times last season when Sordell, as a lone striker, didn't receive one pass in a whole half, so lets not pretend that signing better individuals will make all the difference. It won't. It'll help, of course, but it's not like we don't have a talented squad in the first place. There isn't 1% of me which things Freedman is getting anything like the full potential out of this group of players.

The first thing we should be looking at doing is sorting out the tactics because they're just not good enough right now. We need to improve as a team and become better defensively and much better going forward. When that is the case, then you should start looking at improving certain positions.

I'd like us to sign Dawson and Spearing, with maybe a couple of wingers too. However, bringing these players in won't solve the fundamental flaws with us. We'll still be a side who are in a scrappy game every week, scoring if we get a bit of luck or an individual does something quality.

[Lord Kangana]

And as I say, beyond managers saying the right words, we've been doing that for years. I remember us signing the likes of stuart Whittaker, Scott Taylor (the list could go on and on and on and on), we also signed Stubbs and MacAteer.

Beyond personal preference, what do you have presented to you that suggests it'll be any less of a lottery this time out?

[BWFC_Insane]

And as I say, beyond managers saying the right words, we've been doing that for years. I remember us signing the likes of stuart Whittaker, Scott Taylor (the list could go on and on and on and on), we also signed Stubbs and MacAteer.

Beyond personal preference, what do you have presented to you that suggests it'll be any less of a lottery this time out?

I've explained how they've geared up the scouting and performance structure to have specific people in post to identify young players, find the right markets etc and then to support the performance and development of those players.

That is different to what we've had before.

There is an actual structure in place to try and address it and improve it. I agree it isn't easy but we have a manager who has demonstrably shown at his previous club his ability to work with young players. Has stated that desire. AND backed it up with a new backroom structure that puts more emphasis on the development squad than ever before.

At this stage, that is more than we've done in that past.