Kick off with a glass or two of claret!

[Lord Kangana]

But, again, its been said before that we're doing "targeted" stuff with the youth and reserves. it doen't sound significantly different to what's been in place since Sam was here. And whats to stop another Kyle Bartley situation arising? (given the new nature of our backroom, are we to expect a new Bartley, Bogdan, Vela, Riley, Basham coming through anytime soon?) Wasn't the new academy infrastructure put in place under Megson? (Or even Sammy Lee?).

[StaffsTrotter]

But, again, its been said before that we're doing "targeted" stuff with the youth and reserves. it doen't sound significantly different to what's been in place since Sam was here. And whats to stop another Kyle Bartley situation arising? (given the new nature of our backroom, are we to expect a new Bartley, Bogdan, Vela, Riley, Basham coming through anytime soon?) Wasn't the new academy infrastructure put in place under Megson? (Or even Sammy Lee?).

Totally agree. Every manager will say they are improving or introducing a better x (insert scouting, coaching, fitness) system. From a fans perspective its all a matter of trust. Only time will tell if it works or not, or indeed if its given time to work.

[Lord Kangana]

Thankyou for saying it far more succinctly than I could manage!

[StaffsTrotter]

But, again, its been said before that we're doing "targeted" stuff with the youth and reserves. it doen't sound significantly different to what's been in place since Sam was here. And whats to stop another Kyle Bartley situation arising? (given the new nature of our backroom, are we to expect a new Bartley, Bogdan, Vela, Riley, Basham coming through anytime soon?) Wasn't the new academy infrastructure put in place under Megson? (Or even Sammy Lee?).

Totally agree. Every manager will say they are improving or introducing a better x (insert scouting, coaching, fitness) system. From a fans perspective its all a matter of trust. Only time will tell if it works or not, or indeed if its given time to work.

Just on a related point, you would have thought the club would have the systems in place to bring through players (in many ways irrespective of what will always be the input of a transient manager). Albeit the theory goes that the club has to have its own playing style that goes through through all levels - not sure what our style is ?.

[Lord Kangana]

I've said that before - not just for youth - that the infrastructure of the club (sports science et al) should not be in the hands of every manager to change at a whim, but a resource made available to every regime. Despite how exciting the things Dougie does may or may not appear o be doing, if he buggers off in 18 months (either through success or failure) wheres the continuity? What will happen then? How will the development continue? It all seems a bit daft to me, albeit from the outside.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Like I've said before, I would like us to bring in some more quality but those individuals we could bring in won't remove the flaws within the team. There's a problem with the tactics that are being used. When the rumours of Jordan Rhodes coming in were being bandied about, I think every Bolton fan was excited about that but when the service to our strikers is as poor as it currently is, what difference would a striker like Rhodes make? There were times last season when Sordell, as a lone striker, didn't receive one pass in a whole half, so lets not pretend that signing better individuals will make all the difference. It won't. It'll help, of course, but it's not like we don't have a talented squad in the first place. There isn't 1% of me which things Freedman is getting anything like the full potential out of this group of players.

The first thing we should be looking at doing is sorting out the tactics because they're just not good enough right now. We need to improve as a team and become better defensively and much better going forward. When that is the case, then you should start looking at improving certain positions.

I'd like us to sign Dawson and Spearing, with maybe a couple of wingers too. However, bringing these players in won't solve the fundamental flaws with us. We'll still be a side who are in a scrappy game every week, scoring if we get a bit of luck or an individual does something quality.

I thought you said it was about structure and 4-5-1? Is the reason some of our strikers aren't getting a good service because we have a midfield with little creativity apart from Eagles and Mavies? Has Dougie not just signed someone that is supposedly quite creative in his play?

I don't buy this tactics thing. We simply have too many similar players that don't complement each other. We have a collection of centre backs that even I could out run. We have a bunch of central midfielders that can run around a bit and maybe tackle and we have a whole host of strikers that don't score. We used to have a set of full backs that couldn't defend. Dougie is clearly trying to address those issues by bringing in players that can address those glaring problems. He could play any tactics you like but it wont start us scoring goals or conceding them if we don't have the mix of players required.

Admit it. You're not happy unless you are whinging about something.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've said that before - not just for youth - that the infrastructure of the club (sports science et al) should not be in the hands of every manager to change at a whim, but a resource made available to every regime. Despite how exciting the things Dougie does may or may not appear o be doing, if he buggers off in 18 months (either through success or failure) wheres the continuity? What will happen then? How will the development continue? It all seems a bit daft to me, albeit from the outside.

LK without knowing for sure, two of the big players in this stuff being introduces are Mark Leather (who Dougie talked into coming back) who worked under Allardyce previously and Brian Prestidge who has been at the club for 10 years.

Heading up the sports science stuff and analysis depts respectively.

So on a positive, Leather is NW based a Bolton fan, born in Bolton and a leading expert in the field who wanted out of football, until Dougie came calling. And Prestidge who has been here a long time and seems excited by a new remit and a much larger budget by the sounds of things.

What I'm saying is that whilst we won't know until something happens, it SOUNDS and SEEMS like this structure is being put in place to hopefully stay should a manager change. Hopefully we will have the sense to appoint a manager who will work with it.

I hope that Gartside has learned a lesson here.

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah, so effectively its pretty much as you were then?

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah, so effectively its pretty much as you were then?

Eh?

[Lord Kangana]

Same people. Pretty much same equipment.

[StaffsTrotter]

I've said that before - not just for youth - that the infrastructure of the club (sports science et al) should not be in the hands of every manager to change at a whim, but a resource made available to every regime. Despite how exciting the things Dougie does may or may not appear o be doing, if he buggers off in 18 months (either through success or failure) wheres the continuity? What will happen then? How will the development continue? It all seems a bit daft to me, albeit from the outside.

its does seem daft for a multi million £ business thats been going for 100 plus years.

My vague recollection of a programme (might have been Lineker or Hansen fronting) that lauded the Barca system, was this idea of a style of play. Even a manager coming in has to adapt that style. Suppose it all fits in with the increasing idea of a manager just being a smallish cog only dealing with first team.

[BWFC_Insane]

Same people. Pretty much same equipment.

Mark Leather was last at the club in 1999/2000.

Prestidge was here previously, but has been given a load of new toys including HD motion tracking cameras round the stadium, new devices to monitor players during games and in training etc. And has been given a whole team of people that he is heading up.

Leather is one of the leading experts in sports science and rehabilitation.

Prestidge is supposedly one of the best in the business at analysis.

A load of people have been brought in to work under them. As Leather explained he's got every "ologist" you can think of. Prestidge has the afformentioned technical scouts (working on databases for identifying new players) performance analysts etc.

A new scouting network has been put in place as well.

It is very different to what was here this time last year.

[Lord Kangana]

It just looks, from the outside, like incremental change to me. Changes in technology will always move things on. Every manager puts in place "a new scouting network". I think you're convincing yourself this is genesis rather than resurrection.

[StaffsTrotter]

Same people. Pretty much same equipment.

Mark Leather was last at the club in 1999/2000.

Prestidge was here previously, but has been given a load of new toys including HD motion tracking cameras round the stadium, new devices to monitor players during games and in training etc. And has been given a whole team of people that he is heading up.

Leather is one of the leading experts in sports science and rehabilitation.

Prestidge is supposedly one of the best in the business at analysis.

A load of people have been brought in to work under them. As Leather explained he's got every "ologist" you can think of. Prestidge has the afformentioned technical scouts (working on databases for identifying new players) performance analysts etc.

A new scouting network has been put in place as well.

It is very different to what was here this time last year.

like your optimism, but you are sounding a bit like maureen lipman in those old BT adverts 'ooh he's got an ology'

[BWFC_Insane]

It just looks, from the outside, like incremental change to me. Changes in technology will always move things on. Every manager puts in place "a new scouting network". I think you're convincing yourself this is genesis rather than resurrection.

Under the previous manager we didn't have a sports science department. Or an analysis department.

The change in structure and emphasis as explained at the fans forum is pretty massive.

[Lord Kangana]

Is your house stacked full of items that you neither want nor need?

[chester white]

Is your house stacked full of items that you neither want nor need?

I imagine our training ground it full of unwanted table tennis equipment

[Bruce Rioja]

Is your house stacked full of items that you neither want nor need?

I imagine our training ground it full of unwanted table tennis equipment

Have we not sold them to Wiggin?

[StaffsTrotter]

Is your house stacked full of items that you neither want nor need?

not sure I agree with that one. As far as I can see the last time we had this background stuff in place and working was with Sam and it gave us an edge. Look at a lot of other UK sports e.g. athletics & cycling and the sports science has clearly had something to do with recent success.

Bwfci obviously has a lot more blind faith than I have, but I'd say, if it can give us any edge so much the better - its just a case of delivering it on the pitch now and as a enduring legacy.

In addition it does seem like Dougie is more like Sam in being organised and methodical. Certainly a change from the Ginger ones 'shout at em' or Coyles 'up and at em'

[Lord Kangana]

I was referring to him being a salesman's dream.