Game for the Poaching at Forest!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Cloughy would be so proud.

[reterpeid]

Didn't look fit to me....Forest took the foot off the pedal after the 3rd went in ....

[Enoch]

I love it when Bolton fans come out after a poor result to c*nt the team off. When others do it I find it a tad sad.

I loved Clough, loved what Forest achieved in his time. If only there were opportunity for a Forest/Ipswich/Derby to win the Premiership nowadays.

After today I think Eddie should sack Freedman and give Smokin the gig, he obviously has all the answers.

[Enoch]

Sorry, did I use the c*nt word?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I loved Clough, loved what Forest achieved in his time. If only there were opportunity for a Forest/Ipswich/Derby to win the Premiership nowadays.

amen to that.

As for us today, having seen the Zapruder footage:

First goal: Baptiste allows Mackie goalside, Wheater plays him onside, Tierney waves at them all from the other side, but the situation arose because Knight f&cks up his clearance/pass then watches the game pass him by. Nobody gets medals, but Zat needs the biggest slap.

Second goal: Baptiste hadn't noticed Reid's run, partly because he was covering the centre-forward who was being ignored by Knight.

Third goal: chaos. Not sure whether it's Bap or Zat (it's late, not much footage, tired eyes) who ends up bumping ineffectually into Wheater under the ball's flightpath, but the other is nowhere to be seen.

Dear oh dear. Changes needed in defence. Zat and Wheats may seem to be the best of the bunch but by God they're trying to prove otherwise.

[Peter Thompson]

Ok Bish I'll re phrase....he doesn't appear to think that there is any problem !

Read it and try again. He clearly sees the problem. But as he says 'we are where we are'. We aren't in a position to have a massive squad with cover everywhere.

Simple answer is we need to fight and scrap each week for whatever points we can get. And they need our support.

There was no lack of effort today. Just a lack of ability in key areas.

Go then BWFCI enlighten me....

I've read it again and I still can't see anything in there where he 'sees a problem'. We are where we are & we'll move on doesn't come across like he see's any problems.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok Bish I'll re phrase....he doesn't appear to think that there is any problem !

Read it and try again. He clearly sees the problem. But as he says 'we are where we are'. We aren't in a position to have a massive squad with cover everywhere.

Simple answer is we need to fight and scrap each week for whatever points we can get. And they need our support.

There was no lack of effort today. Just a lack of ability in key areas.

Go then BWFCI enlighten me....

I've read it again and I still can't see anything in there where he 'sees a problem'. We are where we are & we'll move on doesn't come across like he see's any problems.

He's saying that we have a small squad and struggle when key players are out. He's right. There isn't a lot more to say. It was a bad day and a bad result. But we need to get on with it.

[Lord Kangana]

But we haven't got a small squad for this level at all.

[thebish]

He's saying that we have a small squad and struggle when key players are out. He's right. There isn't a lot more to say. It was a bad day and a bad result. But we need to get on with it.

i don't disagree with dougie that we need a couple more players - but is that really ALL it is??

the players who were picked yesterday - do you really think that the performance they put together was the best they could have achieved given their ability?

I'm a dougie supporter still - but, come on, we are allowed to point out the glaringly obvious aren't we - that those players ARE capable of more than they are giving us - and that's what we shovel wads at cash on dougie's wages and his backroom staff to achieve...

this wasn't a pre-season game - not even the first game of the season - we should have been firing on all cylinders, surely?

[Annoyed Grunt]

He's saying that we have a small squad and struggle when key players are out. He's right. There isn't a lot more to say. It was a bad day and a bad result. But we need to get on with it.

i don't disagree with dougie that we need a couple more players - but is that really ALL it is??

the players who were picked yesterday - do you really think that the performance they put together was the best they could have achieved given their ability?

I'm a dougie supporter still - but, come on, we are allowed to point out the glaringly obvious aren't we - that those players ARE capable of more than they are giving us - and that's what we shovel wads at cash on dougie's wages and his backroom staff to achieve...

this wasn't a pre-season game - not even the first game of the season - we should have been firing on all cylinders, surely?

Spot on post, Bish....

[BWFC_Insane]

He's saying that we have a small squad and struggle when key players are out. He's right. There isn't a lot more to say. It was a bad day and a bad result. But we need to get on with it.

i don't disagree with dougie that we need a couple more players - but is that really ALL it is??

the players who were picked yesterday - do you really think that the performance they put together was the best they could have achieved given their ability?

I'm a dougie supporter still - but, come on, we are allowed to point out the glaringly obvious aren't we - that those players ARE capable of more than they are giving us - and that's what we shovel wads at cash on dougie's wages and his backroom staff to achieve...

this wasn't a pre-season game - not even the first game of the season - we should have been firing on all cylinders, surely?

Was yesterday not very similar to last season pre-Dawson?

Genuine question. You may disagree. But my feeling is that we have some decent players but the missing link is very critical.

Of course we expect better with what we have I'd like to hope yesterday was a bad day rather than the norm.

I'm not saying that we played well or couldn't have done considerably better. But it was the first time this season we have been poor in that way.

My worry is that without getting a centre back we are always going to struggle to hold on against teams are always susceptible to the other team when they put pressure on us and all that just chips away at the confidence. As an example, if we'd had better than Wheater we may well have hung on against Reading and scraped a 1-0 win. Which would have boosted confidence and perhaps led to a better effort at Forest.

All I'm really trying to say is I don't think we are a million miles off, but teams with a weak centre back pairing in my view don't tend to go up in my experience. Of course Dougie needs to take responsibility for that and make sure he finds a way to sort it.

As an add on to that Forest finished one place below us last season but have spent over £5 million quid to improve their squad. More than double what we've spent. I'm not saying that is an excuse at all. Why I'm saying it is that I genuinely worry that we are over time going to be left behind. I'm not sure what the answer is here I'm throwing it out there. Do we gamble on a centre half being a missing link in the side take a risk and spend or hope that as it stands we have enough to compete with Forest, QPR, Watford, Reading and Wigan?

[Lord Kangana]

2.5m doesn't buy you an entire new first eleven and a coherent game plan. We looked miles behind them yesterday.

[Tombwfc]

I think the idea that we need to go out and spend £4m on a centre half, in addition to the four centre halves we already have and Baptiste, in order to be competitive is ridiculous.

People are talking like they used to when we were in the Premier League and we genuinely couldn't compete. We still have one of the most expensive squads in the league and one with a lot of top flight experience. There is more than enough ability there to be better than we have been so far this season.

FWIW, I don't think it was the defence that was the most worrying aspect of yesterday's performance. Having dropped both strikers who started last week's game against Reading (which on the whole I felt was fairly promising) we never looked like troubling Forest at any stage. According to Dougie, Beckford is the best bit of business done anywhere in the Championship (much better than the signing of Jamie Mackie, for instance) and yet we appear to have no idea how to play with him in the side. In the 192 minutes of his Bolton career I'm not sure if he's even had a shot yet.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm also concerned about this Baptiste fella. I was less than impressed by him against Reading and thought he was chiefly culpable with all three Forest goals yesterday. Those that'd like to see the back of Mears should be very careful what they wish for.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the idea that we need to go out and spend £4m on a centre half, in addition to the four centre halves we already have and Baptiste, in order to be competitive is ridiculous.

People are talking like they used to when we were in the Premier League and we genuinely couldn't compete. We still have one of the most expensive squads in the league and one with a lot of top flight experience. There is more than enough ability there to be better than we have been so far this season.

FWIW, I don't think it was the defence that was the most worrying aspect of yesterday's performance. Having dropped both strikers who started last week's game against Reading (which on the whole I felt was fairly promising) we never looked like troubling Forest at any stage. According to Dougie, Beckford is the best bit of business done anywhere in the Championship and yet we appear to have no idea how to play with him in the side. In the 192 minutes of his Bolton career I'm not sure if he's even had a shot yet.

The point is we said that last season when we were languishing near the bottom. And then we got Dawson and shot up the league.

Now we are saying it again.

It's not always about the individuals but the blend.

Having said that I've read elsewhere people with the opinion that we have the worst centre back partnership in this league. Not saying I'd go that far but it is incredibly weak.

[Peter Thompson]

I may be wrong (I often am !), but I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team. Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style.

You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

[AbrahM]

The only positive is that a 3-0 defeat, rather than 1-0, may be a serious wake up call, for us to sign the extra players we need and to the players.

While our squad may not be small, beyond the first team i is short on quality, for all of our matches I've looked at the bench and thought that there was maybe just one person who could change the game.

I've only seen the Reading game this season and really don't think we were as bad as most people make out in the 2nd half (by this league's standards anyway) and Reading are a good team. But it's been so long that we've been dire away from home and I really don't know why, we've changed managers and players but we are still poor away. That's what cost us last season and probably will this year too.

[Tombwfc]

I think the idea that we need to go out and spend £4m on a centre half, in addition to the four centre halves we already have and Baptiste, in order to be competitive is ridiculous.

People are talking like they used to when we were in the Premier League and we genuinely couldn't compete. We still have one of the most expensive squads in the league and one with a lot of top flight experience. There is more than enough ability there to be better than we have been so far this season.

FWIW, I don't think it was the defence that was the most worrying aspect of yesterday's performance. Having dropped both strikers who started last week's game against Reading (which on the whole I felt was fairly promising) we never looked like troubling Forest at any stage. According to Dougie, Beckford is the best bit of business done anywhere in the Championship and yet we appear to have no idea how to play with him in the side. In the 192 minutes of his Bolton career I'm not sure if he's even had a shot yet.

The point is we said that last season when we were languishing near the bottom. And then we got Dawson and shot up the league.

Now we are saying it again.

It's not always about the individuals but the blend.

Having said that I've read elsewhere people with the opinion that we have the worst centre back partnership in this league. Not saying I'd go that far but it is incredibly weak.

Zat Knight has played over 300 games in either the Championship or the Premier League. David Wheater nearly 200. Matt Mills 150 odd. Alex Baptiste over 150. Cian Bolger has 50 odd appearances further down the Football League and is 21 years old (younger players have been written off). Tim Ream is shit.

Matt Mills has reached the playoff final and captained Reading. Alex Baptiste has been promoted with Blackpool, reached another playoff final and was captain there last season. At full-back, Marc Tierney was promoted with Norwich City. Tyrone Mears was promoted with Derby County.

Added to that, we have two excellent defensive midfielders in Medo and Spearing to sit in front of the back four.

I'm not having that that group of players simply don't have the quality to form a cohesive defence in this league. They obviously do, they've all done it before. There is enough there to work with, and if Dougie is as good as you think he is he should be able to find a combination that works.

[LeverEnd]

Both our centre halves are capped by England. I know it was a while ago and they aren't that good any more, but they have some ability. Any team that hands the initiative to the opposition and practically invites them to play in front of them as a general tactic is going to struggle in terms of centre halves as they are always under pressure. I didn't mind last season because we all agreed that team shape and defensive solidity were vital after Coyle. However it's starting to look like his only plan is defend deep, deny space and then hope for some individual skill to sneak a goal before hanging on to it for grim death and hope that the opposition is inept enough not to score.
Now I'm sure it's not his stated aim, but the net result seems to be the same.
I hope there is some cunning plan that has yet to come together because otherwise we are in for a miserable season. Yesterday suggested that nothing has improved or been learned from last season and I just can't see where away points will come from. We'll have to rely on scraping undeserved 1 nil wins against relegation candidates like we did to maintain the run last season.

[Worthy4England]

I may be wrong (I often am !), but I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team. Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style.

You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

I agree with the spending side to an extent. If you'd asked me where we were really short on players at the start of last season, I'd have probably said CB's - at least one please. Holding type MF and an out and out striker (one who can actually score).

As I look at it now, we've probably sorted one of those out by signing Spearing.

We've tried to sort a second out by signing Davies and Beckford - but not sure either of them will work, N'gog probably won't either (on historical form).

Out of what we had on the Park yesterday, there's at least 8 of them that must be doubtful of a place. If I'm picking my team at the moment, I say on current form

Bogdan
Spearing
Pratley

Then who else? That's too many first team players nothing like "nailed on" for a start.

We are missing Holden, Eagles and Mavies, but two of those are starting to look like Quenton Fortune would be a better bet, and we certainly have a squad big enough.