Time to go

[Lord Kangana]

A veiled threat? FFS man this isn't a government plot to keep Coyle in a job. Times have changed, things have moved on. Megson cost us money to pay off Leicester, to pay that bloody Mark Curtis and then to award him the biggest transfer kitty any manager has had at this club ever. That was to get Gary f*cking Megson. We now have no money left, the evidence screams it. Who do you really think we'll get this time, and what do you think we'll give him? I just think you're avoiding the issue because its too difficult to face.

[Worthy4England]

You can't escape inflation. Even if things were all equal, you're asking for a transfer budget twice that given to Coyle. Plus the replacement/payoff matrix costs.

My money (such as it is) is on it not happening because of the clubs money (such as it is) not being enough for that.

Are you confident that it will?

I'm not trying to escape inflation. He spent something of the order of £5.1m net over 4 years. So you can multiply £1.3m by a fair number of factors to account for inflation...

[Armchair Wanderer]

You can't escape inflation. Even if things were all equal, you're asking for a transfer budget twice that given to Coyle. Plus the replacement/payoff matrix costs.

My money (such as it is) is on it not happening because of the clubs money (such as it is) not being enough for that.

Are you confident that it will?

I'm not trying to escape inflation. He spent something of the order of £5.1m net over 4 years. So you can multiply £1.3m by a fair number of factors to account for inflation...

Right, but didn't he sell Anelka? What would OC's net spend be if he'd sold Cahill? Also, we had some loanees. Wages were probably higher, from memory.

[Lord Kangana]

Hughes.

Megson's net spend is oodles more than that.

[Worthy4England]

You can't escape inflation. Even if things were all equal, you're asking for a transfer budget twice that given to Coyle. Plus the replacement/payoff matrix costs.

My money (such as it is) is on it not happening because of the clubs money (such as it is) not being enough for that.

Are you confident that it will?

I'm not trying to escape inflation. He spent something of the order of £5.1m net over 4 years. So you can multiply £1.3m by a fair number of factors to account for inflation...

Right, but didn't he sell Anelka? What would OC's net spend be if he'd sold Cahill? Also, we had some loanees. Wages were probably higher, from memory.

Do try and keep up.

[Armchair Wanderer]

I was getting all defensive of OC too, surprised meself there! hehe

[BWFC_Insane]

A veiled threat? FFS man this isn't a government plot to keep Coyle in a job. Times have changed, things have moved on. Megson cost us money to pay off Leicester, to pay that bloody Mark Curtis and then to award him the biggest transfer kitty any manager has had at this club ever. That was to get Gary f*cking Megson. We now have no money left, the evidence screams it. Who do you really think we'll get this time, and what do you think we'll give him? I just think you're avoiding the issue because its too difficult to face.

Youre not addressing the issue of how going down will improve our financial situation?

Paying 10M for a new manager is better than losing 40M TV money.

If it's the case that literally the club don't have a pound to buy Kevin Davies an advent calendar then we will be hitting the administration button whilst a premiership club.

As I don't think that's the case, and I suspect we wouldn't have spent 4M for NGog on deadline day if it was that desperate then I think the situation is that we simply have to so all we can to stay up!

[Lord Kangana]

It isn't an either/or scenario. Its a gamble. The £10m spent will not guarantee the difference between Premier League income and Championship Parachute money. If we're genuinely pretty much spent up (and I firmly believe we are) the only course of action open to us would be to borrow against next seasons earnings. Although I have a feeling we are already doing this. This is the model that Leeds and the like followed. It can only leed one way.

And the spending on Ngog pretty much put Coyle at evens on his transfer activity. If he really did have plenty of money at his disposal I find it faintly absurd to suggest that he wouldn't have spent it.

So, back to the proposed candidates. Worthy suggested Hughes, I've made my feelings known on that score. So, playing Devils Avocado for a second, if we genuinley have no money, who are you suggesting would take the 6-months-with-clauses-and-no-transfer-money offer?

[BWFC_Insane]

It isn't an either/or scenario. Its a gamble. The £10m spent will not guarantee the difference between Premier League income and Championship Parachute money. If we're genuinely pretty much spent up (and I firmly believe we are) the only course of action open to us would be to borrow against next seasons earnings. Although I have a feeling we are already doing this. This is the model that Leeds and the like followed. It can only leed one way.

And the spending on Ngog pretty much put Coyle at evens on his transfer activity. If he really did have plenty of money at his disposal I find it faintly absurd to suggest that he wouldn't have spent it.

So, back to the proposed candidates. Worthy suggested Hughes, I've made my feelings known on that score. So, playing Devils Avacado for a second, if we genuinley have no money, who are you suggesting would take the 6-months-with-clauses-and-no-transfer-money offer?

But the scenario you've painted is that the club spent it's last 4M in the world on David NGog.

Simply not buying this.

But if it's that desperate then were in administration as soon as we go down anyways, so who cares how big the debt is at that point? May as well go for broke in that situation. Just playing devils advocate of course!

[Prufrock]

BWFCi, it would be a piece of piss decision if it was get rid of Coyle, stay up, keep him, go down. Of course everyone would spend/find the £10m then. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Fook me, people are talking as if we are down. We've been shit this season, and we're still only two points from safety. Where I am at is that we are by no means adrift, or close to it, we have goals in us, there have been sporadic good performances and the manager has proven last year that when he gets it right it can be very very good. I'm not a 'bury my head, never sack anybody and it will all be all right' type. I think there is a point at which it would be the right time to sack Coyle, I don't think we are there yet. There are 26 games left to make up two points, and I think the personnel are more than capable of staying in this league.

Our entire season last year was built on home form (I think our away record this year so far is better than last?) and so far this season at home we have been shit. Everton is massive for me. If we are clueless in that, my opinion of Coyle will be lowered and I might get to the point where I think there are better options out there. Personally I think Hughes and O'Neill would both be better, but I don't think either would come. There is no point getting rid of Coyle just for the sake of it if the replacement isn't going to be better. I don't think we are yet at the point where 'anybody is better'. We have been wank so far, and yet we are still only two point away from three (I think) teams. Right now, I'd take 17th, and I don't think we are yet at the stage where that looks unlikely.

[Wandering Willy]

Paying 10M for a new manager is better than losing 40M TV money.

In the absence of any evidence of the "£10m guaranteed to keep you up manager", perhaps the £10m would be better spent on the pitch rather than off it?

That's if it exists as you say it does.

[Harry Genshaw]

BWFCi, it would be a piece of piss decision if it was get rid of Coyle, stay up, keep him, go down. Of course everyone would spend/find the £10m then. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Fook me, people are talking as if we are down. We've been shit this season, and we're still only two points from safety. Where I am at is that we are by no means adrift, or close to it, we have goals in us, there have been sporadic good performances and the manager has proven last year that when he gets it right it can be very very good. I'm not a 'bury my head, never sack anybody and it will all be all right' type. I think there is a point at which it would be the right time to sack Coyle, I don't think we are there yet. There are 26 games left to make up two points, and I think the personnel are more than capable of staying in this league.

Our entire season last year was built on home form (I think our away record this year so far is better than last?) and so far this season at home we have been shit. Everton is massive for me. If we are clueless in that, my opinion of Coyle will be lowered and I might get to the point where I think there are better options out there. Personally I think Hughes and O'Neill would both be better, but I don't think either would come. There is no point getting rid of Coyle just for the sake of it if the replacement isn't going to be better. I don't think we are yet at the point where 'anybody is better'. We have been wank so far, and yet we are still only two point away from three (I think) teams. Right now, I'd take 17th, and I don't think we are yet at the stage where that looks unlikely.

Agree with this. Anyone who thinks Hughes or O'Neill are realistic candidates are living in dream world. As LK pointed out, we spent 5hitloads in attracting the in-demand managerial thoroughbred that was Gary Megson. If Coyle goes, be prepared for Alan Knill or somesuch. Thank God Alan Balls no longer with us.

[BWFC_Insane]

BWFCi, it would be a piece of piss decision if it was get rid of Coyle, stay up, keep him, go down. Of course everyone would spend/find the £10m then. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Fook me, people are talking as if we are down. We've been shit this season, and we're still only two points from safety. Where I am at is that we are by no means adrift, or close to it, we have goals in us, there have been sporadic good performances and the manager has proven last year that when he gets it right it can be very very good. I'm not a 'bury my head, never sack anybody and it will all be all right' type. I think there is a point at which it would be the right time to sack Coyle, I don't think we are there yet. There are 26 games left to make up two points, and I think the personnel are more than capable of staying in this league.

Our entire season last year was built on home form (I think our away record this year so far is better than last?) and so far this season at home we have been shit. Everton is massive for me. If we are clueless in that, my opinion of Coyle will be lowered and I might get to the point where I think there are better options out there. Personally I think Hughes and O'Neill would both be better, but I don't think either would come. There is no point getting rid of Coyle just for the sake of it if the replacement isn't going to be better. I don't think we are yet at the point where 'anybody is better'. We have been wank so far, and yet we are still only two point away from three (I think) teams. Right now, I'd take 17th, and I don't think we are yet at the stage where that looks unlikely.

Agree Pru. My original point being that you have to decide at what point you think Coyle isn't going to keep us up and then make the change whenever that is, and not leave it too late.

Some seem to be arguing keeping Coyle come what may because we can't afford to do anything else. Which is where I disagree!

[CAPSLOCK]

As LK pointed out, we spent 5hitloads in attracting the in-demand managerial thoroughbred that was Gary Megson.

And, as he didn't point out, we spent more getting Coyle and his useless mates

[Lord Kangana]

Just remind me, wasn't it you who said that the highest spending manager will always be the most recent?

What are we going to entice them with?

[Wandering Willy]

Very good. I assume you are referring to 4 years ago.

Given the hyper inflation in football fees since then I would think that relative transfer prices have increased two fold if not more, suggesting a comparison of the £8.5m is unfair at best and dulling the contrast somewhat.

Yes, but you are pointing to his norm being spend £95m and getting to 10th (although I'm not sure at what point in time that was - I thought they were higher when he got sacked).

I'm saying that is not precedent. He finished 6th, 10th and 7th with Blackburn spending sod all and I don't think spent huge amounts in his short stay at Fulham.

Not sure whether he spent £8.5m, £5.1m or "bugger all". - you've quoted all 3 and ignored inflation.

Anyway, Hughes's time at Blackburn was no doubt successful for them. We are talking a while ago though, and football has moved on. He set up a Blackburn team that was physical and direct, pretty much similar to the Allardyce reign with us. These days that direct style has been found out and rarely works as a single tactic. The "pass and move" style is the way to achieve results, mixed in with some more direct football. We've seen as much with our lot in our better games.

Hughes attempted the "pass and move" game at City with far more than the £95m mentioned above when you add in the likes of Adebayor, Tevez, Barry, Toure, Kompany, De Jong, Zabaletta and others. £200m would be nearer the mark and that's before you consider wages. His stay at City was decried as a failure by owners, fans and pundits alike. He finished his spell with 2 wins in eleven.

At Fulham he inherited a good squad from Hodgson and finshed a respectable 8th. It's the manner of his leaving that perhaps tells us a little more about the man himself. There are many theories surrounding his departure which Hughes puts down to him being more ambitious than Fulham wanted to be. Bottom line is he wanted to spend big and the owner wasn't having it. After all it didn't do him much good at City. I believe that Hughes thought he was a lock for the Villa job (who didn't want him) and he took the gamble on leaving with that in the bag - I also suspect he thought he was in with a good chance of the vacant Chelsea position. He hasn't worked since.

For us, presumably those looking for a change will want a new manager that can work with a limited squad and little or no budget, and at the same time keep us up in half a season. Mark Hughes doesn't seem to fit that bill.

Ambitious he may be, Billy Big Boots he certainly is.

[CAPSLOCK]

Just remind me, wasn't it you who said that the highest spending manager will always be the most recent?

What are we going to entice them with?

20 grand a week should attract a few unemployed blokes

[Lord Kangana]

I thought the free coaches saw to that?

[Worthy4England]

Willy, none of what you said in your post makes his spending at City "precedential", which is what we were originally talking about and what you originally said.

He spent £8.5m in the year you originally mentioned, £5.1m net over his 4 years which equates to bugger all over a four year term.

He did very well at Blackburn on bugger all spend and very well at Fulham - be it with a decent squad or not.

Why you don't think what he did at Blackburn shows he has the ability to work a decent team out of sod all money is beyond me.

Do I think he's a Billy Big Boots and a DMB - yes. Do I think he'd do a better job of organising our team than OC is doing - yes. Do I think he'd come here - dunno.

[Wandering Willy]

It's a while back now, but we talking about giving Hughes a "war chest". The precedent is that he was given a bottomless pit of money at City and he faired poorly. The ginger genius could have got City to 10th with that money.

I've already said he did well at Blackburn but that was a while ago and the game has changed. Do I think that he could repeat that given our current squad and no money? - No. (Not sure anyone can).

The big question is, assuming a £10m cost for Hughes (as above) is do you think Hughes + zero cash would fair better than Coyle +£10m on players? Again no for me, though as said before probably academic.

Most importantly you have pointed out the DMB status. You bugger, that was my trump card - the final body blow that was to beat you into submission.