Away at Mick McCarthy's Super Ipswich Town

[Wandering Willy]

a championship season of playing in every game is 46 games... if he can't do it in 63 or 59 - what makes you so sure he can do it in 46?

Exactly.

I don't see what is so "exactly" about it... if he is that nailed on, then both Coyle and Dougie clearly didn't/don't agree with you... else they would have given him a full season!

this season (championship) Ngog has scored 6 in 28 - if he kept up that form over 46 games - he'd still fall short of 10 for the season!

i don't doubt he has a contribution to the team - but it's not goals... not enough (anyway) for me to think he'd be nailed on to score 10 or more in a season..

Err - he doesn't even have to average 5 goals a season to be called a legend by some on here.

[thebish]

And the exactly was that nowhere in your stats were you looking at the level we are currently at!

that's because "at the level we are at" neither of our two managers have seen fit to completely put their faith in this 10-gallon goal machine!! if he was that good at this level - he'd have played in more than 18 games by now!

[SmokinFrazier]

The problems with N'Gog will always be there, whether it's in the Premier League, Championship or the Blue Square. I don't think I've ever seen a more inconsistent striker than he is. He can score some good goals at times but others, he'll look like a less composed version of Muamba. He'll never be a goalscorer and I doubt he'll ever get 15 goals a season in his entire career. He wasn't a goalscorer at Liverpool when he had Xabi Alonso, Steven Gerrard etc., feeding him, so I don't have much hope he'll start being a consistent finisher for us, even if we are at a lower level.

I like N'Gog but his lack of finishing ability is an issue for us.

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

[TANGODANCER]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

[LeverEnd]

The problems with N'Gog will always be there, whether it's in the Premier League, Championship or the Blue Square. I don't think I've ever seen a more inconsistent striker than he is. He can score some good goals at times but others, he'll look like a less composed version of Muamba. He'll never be a goalscorer and I doubt he'll ever get 15 goals a season in his entire career. He wasn't a goalscorer at Liverpool when he had Xabi Alonso, Steven Gerrard etc., feeding him, so I don't have much hope he'll start being a consistent finisher for us, even if we are at a lower level.

I like N'Gog but his lack of finishing ability is an issue for us.

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

I'd put Ngog and Sordell in for the next 3 games and give it a chance. Craig davies made a good start but it's either/or with him ngog and SKD for me. Best chance of partnership is MS+DN. Unless we get a pacy goalscoring winger and go back to 4-5-1/4-3-3 in which case Ngog is our best bet on his own with his back to goal. Best footballer out of all of them when it comes to creating space and chances for others.

[LeverEnd]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

Except with Ngog that is less of a constant priority than it seems to be with Sordell. He does lots of things that Sordell doessn't. Dougie mentioned him as a 'link-man' I think. Which suggests his movement patterns are those of an all-round forward than a striker, i.e goalscorer. I think that's what SF means and if so I agree.

[SmokinFrazier]

Yeah, Kevin Davies, Craig Davies and N'Gog are all more suited to being a link-up type player, and they naturally prefer to drop a bit deeper and create chances. Sordell is an out and out striker, and he makes more aggressive runs. The basic difference is that the three forwards I first mentioned try to set something up for a teammate, whereas Sordell, or a striker like Klasnic, use their movement to get themselves in scoring positions. It's quite a selfish role in that sense but it does produce goals.

For me, I don't think it works when you have two forwards who like to drop deep, or when you have two out and out strikers. The first lacks a real goal threat and the second lacks link up play, which is why I'd like to see Sordell start with either Craig Davies or N'Gog. That provides a good mix, I think, and then you obviously have options on the bench depending on how the game is going.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For me, I don't think it works when you have two forwards who like to drop deep, or when you have two out and out strikers. The first lacks a real goal threat and the second lacks link up play, which is why I'd like to see Sordell start with either Craig Davies or N'Gog. That provides a good mix, I think, and then you obviously have options on the bench depending on how the game is going.

Yeah, McGinlay and Walker were fecking shite together

There is nowt wrong with 2 goalscorers in a team, as long as they both aren't making identical runs. See the problem these days is that players seem to be absolved of performing their main role. Strikers aren't expected to score because they link things. Defenders don't have to defend properly because midfielders are supposed to do that. They just get up front and cross the ball in, cos that isn't what wingers are for. That is all fine and dandy when you have half the Barcelona team and Ronaldo et al. Bit when you have Ricketts, Pratley and Zat Knight it is better to focus limited players on doing their job properly. If the defenders could defend properly then the midfielders could better support the strikers. Then the strikers could score goals rather than helping the midfield out due to them helping the defenders out.

Sometimes it is just simple. Pundits like to make out it is more complicated, otherwise what is the point of them? A manager isn't going to say it is simple either.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

For me, I don't think it works when you have two forwards who like to drop deep, or when you have two out and out strikers. The first lacks a real goal threat and the second lacks link up play, which is why I'd like to see Sordell start with either Craig Davies or N'Gog. That provides a good mix, I think, and then you obviously have options on the bench depending on how the game is going.

Yeah, McGinlay and Walker were fecking shite together

There is nowt wrong with 2 goalscorers in a team, as long as they both aren't making identical runs. See the problem these days is that players seem to be absolved of performing their main role. Strikers aren't expected to score because they link things. Defenders don't have to defend properly because midfielders are supposed to do that. They just get up front and cross the ball in, cos that isn't what wingers are for. That is all fine and dandy when you have half the Barcelona team and Ronaldo et al. Bit when you have Ricketts, Pratley and Zat Knight it is better to focus limited players on doing their job properly. If the defenders could defend properly then the midfielders could better support the strikers. Then the strikers could score goals rather than helping the midfield out due to them helping the defenders out.

Sometimes it is just simple. Pundits like to make out it is more complicated, otherwise what is the point of them? A manager isn't going to say it is simple either.

This ^ This ^ and this again ^^^

N'gog is a poor goalscorer, that makes him a poor striker.
19 goals from 140 games is poor.

[BWFC_Insane]

For me, I don't think it works when you have two forwards who like to drop deep, or when you have two out and out strikers. The first lacks a real goal threat and the second lacks link up play, which is why I'd like to see Sordell start with either Craig Davies or N'Gog. That provides a good mix, I think, and then you obviously have options on the bench depending on how the game is going.

Yeah, McGinlay and Walker were fecking shite together

There is nowt wrong with 2 goalscorers in a team, as long as they both aren't making identical runs. See the problem these days is that players seem to be absolved of performing their main role. Strikers aren't expected to score because they link things. Defenders don't have to defend properly because midfielders are supposed to do that. They just get up front and cross the ball in, cos that isn't what wingers are for. That is all fine and dandy when you have half the Barcelona team and Ronaldo et al. Bit when you have Ricketts, Pratley and Zat Knight it is better to focus limited players on doing their job properly. If the defenders could defend properly then the midfielders could better support the strikers. Then the strikers could score goals rather than helping the midfield out due to them helping the defenders out.

Sometimes it is just simple. Pundits like to make out it is more complicated, otherwise what is the point of them? A manager isn't going to say it is simple either.

You do need a balance though. However much he was likely to score, Klasnic was hard to keep in a team because he didn't offer the workrate and running needed. If it was purely about goalscoring then Michael Owen would have played every game this season, the one before, the one before that etc....

But it clearly isn't.

You need a bit of both. A few players like Drogba for example, offer a bit of both in one player. Often you need to pair them up though.

Mixu and McGinlay for example.

I watched Jordan Rhodes play against us, didn't score and offered virtually nothing to the game. You might get away with that as a team when he's banging em in, but essentially he was being carried that night at least. So there clearly has to be a balance.

We've not got an instinctive finisher and clearly that's a problem, but we're not the only ones, and it's not like we're massively off in terms of the number of goals we've scored this season in general.

[Beefheart]

Do people honestly think the only thing strikers should be judged on is goals? Would you rather have Darren Bent than Dennis Bergkamp? Kevin Phillips rather than Eidur Gudjohnsen or Gianfranco Zola?

It doesn't matter how many goals a striker scores, it matters how many games a team wins.

[thebish]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

all of which would be great - and spot on if what you are talking about is a penalty shootout rather than an actual game...

[BWFC_Insane]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

all of which would be great - and spot on if what you are talking about is a penalty shootout rather than an actual game...

Essentially it's easy to define the movement of a proper striker.

Watch Kevin Davies.

And the exact opposite of what he does, is the movement of a proper striker!

[Worthy4England]

Do people honestly think the only thing strikers should be judged on is goals? Would you rather have Darren Bent than Dennis Bergkamp? Kevin Phillips rather than Eidur Gudjohnsen or Gianfranco Zola?

It doesn't matter how many goals a striker scores, it matters how many games a team wins.

Certainly not the only thing to judge them on, but we seem to go completely the opposite way, and given we don't have a striker that's remotely in the class of Bergkamp, Eidur or Zola, it's not a decision we have to make and that's the point.

What we seem to have is a collection of poor strikers that don't do much of either the Bent/Phillips role or the Bergkamp/Eidur/Zola role.

People also seem to miss the fact that the Bergkamp/Eidur/Zola type striker actually scored a shitload too - Bergkamp 1 every 3.7, Eidur 1 every 3.4 @ Chelsea in the Prem, Zola 1 in every 3.8, so they're generally not too far off the Bent/Phillips type and the little bit you lose in goals per game is compensated for by their set 'em up/assist rate.

We seem to use "playing in that role" as an excuse for N'gog not to actually do very much other than run - which we seem to be collectively delighted with.

[Prufrock]

What Worthy said.

Sooner or later, at some point, some f*cker does have to score.

[TANGODANCER]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

all of which would be great - and spot on if what you are talking about is a penalty shootout rather than an actual game...

Really, no, really? We're in the Championship instead of being in the Premiership because we didn't score enough goals and let too many soft ones in, no other reason. I'm tired of reading terms like structure, cohesion and movement as what we lack. What we lack is the ability to get the ball in the opponents' nets and keep it out of ours. That, despite all the fancy terms, is what football's about.....or does the term "striker" suddenly just mean footballer?

[BWFC_Insane]

Sordell is the only striker have who I think is capable of getting 20 goals a season. He doesn't have the greatest goalscoring record but I think he looks composed and he has the movement of a proper striker. He just needs a consistent run in the team, alongside a regular partner.

What exactly is the movement of a proper striker? Surely the aim of a striker is to hit the net?
How he does that is not down to movement, but to finishing. Right now that seems to be lacking up front. It may well change granted, but movement doesn't win games, goals do.

all of which would be great - and spot on if what you are talking about is a penalty shootout rather than an actual game...

Really, no, really? We're in the Championship instead of being in the Premiership because we didn't score enough goals and let too many soft ones in, no other reason. I'm tired of reading terms like structure, cohesion and movement as what we lack. What we lack is the ability to get the ball in the opponents' nets and keep it out of ours. That, despite all the fancy terms, is what football's about.....or does the term "striker" suddenly just mean footballer?

All the things like movement, pace, ability contribute though to a teams likelihood to create chances and ultimately score them though.

You can be the best finisher in the world but unless you get into the right positions and time your runs and make the right runs, you won't score many.

[thebish]

Really, no, really? We're in the Championship instead of being in the Premiership because we didn't score enough goals and let too many soft ones in, no other reason. I'm tired of reading terms like structure, cohesion and movement as what we lack. What we lack is the ability to get the ball in the opponents' nets and keep it out of ours. That, despite all the fancy terms, is what football's about.....or does the term "striker" suddenly just mean footballer?

if that's your view - you'd best revise your opinion on KD - he has been failing to find the net consistently for a long time!!

in order to "get the ball in the opponents nets" - you need to move and make runs so that you are in the right place at the right time - hence "movement" - a striker needs to know where to run - which channels to employ - when to take a gamble on sprinting for the far post - maybe add a bit of deception into his movement - a feignt, a dummy - he needs to move when he hasn't got the ball to make space or drag defenders out of position... - movement I'm sure you know this really... without movement off the ball it would just be a penalty shootout.

[Beefheart]

Really, no, really? We're in the Championship instead of being in the Premiership because we didn't score enough goals and let too many soft ones in, no other reason. I'm tired of reading terms like structure, cohesion and movement as what we lack. What we lack is the ability to get the ball in the opponents' nets and keep it out of ours. That, despite all the fancy terms, is what football's about.....or does the term "striker" suddenly just mean footballer?

if that's your view - you'd best revise your opinion on KD - he has been failing to find the net consistently for a long time!!

in order to "get the ball in the opponents nets" - you need to move and make runs so that you are in the right place at the right time - hence "movement" - a striker needs to know where to run - which channels to employ - when to take a gamble on sprinting for the far post - maybe add a bit of deception into his movement - a feignt, a dummy - he needs to move when he hasn't got the ball to make space or drag defenders out of position... - movement I'm sure you know this really... without movement off the ball it would just be a penalty shootout.

It'd be human subbuteo

[TANGODANCER]

Really, no, really? We're in the Championship instead of being in the Premiership because we didn't score enough goals and let too many soft ones in, no other reason. I'm tired of reading terms like structure, cohesion and movement as what we lack. What we lack is the ability to get the ball in the opponents' nets and keep it out of ours. That, despite all the fancy terms, is what football's about.....or does the term "striker" suddenly just mean footballer?

if that's your view - you'd best revise your opinion on KD - he has been failing to find the net consistently for a long time!!

in order to "get the ball in the opponents nets" - you need to move and make runs so that you are in the right place at the right time - hence "movement" - a striker needs to know where to run - which channels to employ - when to take a gamble on sprinting for the far post - maybe add a bit of deception into his movement - a feignt, a dummy - he needs to move when he hasn't got the ball to make space or drag defenders out of position... - movement I'm sure you know this really... without movement off the ball it would just be a penalty shootout.

Thanks for the football lesson. Glad all that's just been invented. See, I always thought twenty plus grand a week footballers were supposed to know what to do? As for KD (must have a dig at him), despite not being chosen regularly and not scoring since November, it's a bit off-putting to find he's still joint-second highest scorer amongst all these "strikers".