Forest match thread

[LeverEnd]

Well he's right!

There are plenty folk who seem to think our woes would disappear if he just wrote the names down in a different order.

He's right about what? He seems to suggest that no successful modern team plays with 2 strikers.
This in spite of our best attacking home performance coming playing just that way.

[Prufrock]

I can't think of any successful team which plays with two out and out strikers high up the pitch as he says. Teams that do play with two play one high up and one more withdrawn, which makes the question of 4-2-3-1 v 4-4-2 just semantics. If you call Mortiz, our second top goalscorer and a man I've never seen make a tackle, a striker, then it's 4-4-2. I haven't seen the games this season where we've played 4-4-2, but the ones last year, it wasn't a 2 high up the pitch, N'Gog was floating all over the place, in behind, wide, running past the other striker.

It's a question of attitude, not different names for players going the same thing.

[LeverEnd]

I can't think of any successful team which plays with two out and out strikers high up the pitch as he says. Teams that do play with two play one high up and one more withdrawn, which makes the question of 4-2-3-1 v 4-4-2 just semantics. If you call Mortiz, our second top goalscorer and a man I've never seen make a tackle, a striker, then it's 4-4-2. I haven't seen the games this season where we've played 4-4-2, but the ones last year, it wasn't a 2 high up the pitch, N'Gog was floating all over the place, in behind, wide, running past the other striker.

It's a question of attitude, not different names for players going the same thing.

Ngog last week both pushed up and dropped off, his direct running caused them all kinds of problems. The 4-5-1 thing just doesn't seem to work, appears to stifle. I don't care what it's called really so forget the labels, let's just say I want the team to play with the confidence and arrogance that he brings to his press conferences at times. We should be beating the majority of teams at home or at least playing like we expect to beat them. I'm just tired of tactical timidity.
Moritz is the one I can see making it work for him if it's going to, but it seems he hasn't considered that his coaching/tactics might be responsible for our very disappointing home form. He's right, all the time, and the results are just bad luck.

[Bijou Bob]

I can't think of any successful team which plays with two out and out strikers high up the pitch as he says. Teams that do play with two play one high up and one more withdrawn, which makes the question of 4-2-3-1 v 4-4-2 just semantics. If you call Mortiz, our second top goalscorer and a man I've never seen make a tackle, a striker, then it's 4-4-2. I haven't seen the games this season where we've played 4-4-2, but the ones last year, it wasn't a 2 high up the pitch, N'Gog was floating all over the place, in behind, wide, running past the other striker.

It's a question of attitude, not different names for players going the same thing.

This. However, whatever you call it, however you organise them, we need two front men on the pitch applying pressure. Beckford in his own isn't enough and we don't have enough pace in midfield to support a lone striker.

I can almost guarantee he reverts back to Beckford up front on his own again today. I dearly hope not.

[CrazyHorse]

Which if he does do, it means he's dropping N'gog. The man who's scored in the last two games.

Still, Dougie knows best.

[Beefheart]

You could argue that under Pelligrini City have been playing a conventional 4-4-2 and having a lot of success with it this season.

I imagine Dougie will get some stick if he does decide not to play 2 strikers, though I do agree that if he plays Moritz behind a striker that there isn't much of a difference.

[Jez]

I remember coyles initial success coming with a 442

and then his downfall came with the dropping of muamba and a stupidly light midfield with nobody who could put a tackle in.

Now we have two new muambas and a strike pair that works well, I'm sure its a team with potential

[Worthy4England]

Which if he does do, it means he's dropping N'gog. The man who's scored in the last two games.

Still, Dougie knows best.

Although there's probably not a gulf between them, I think I'd bank on Beckford getting me a goal over N'gog.

[TANGODANCER]

I'm sincerely hoping we don't decide to just defend the ramparts and rely on a quick break occasionally. Going off Forest's display last week, sitting back and inviting them on will be suicide. We need to take them on and close them down higher up the pitch. If we don't, their passing and possesion game will tear us up. It will be a tight game at best because they appear to believe in their ability. I hope our mindset is for us to do the same. Hoping rather than predicting. Nowt to do but say..COME ON YOU WHITES.. ....

[William the White]

I really have no idea what to expect. If the home record continues it will be disappointment. If we bring onto the pitch the attitude of the first halves against blackpool and Leicester or the second half against Boro it will be excitement. Of the three possible results a Bolton victory seems to me the least likely. Achieving it, though, could mean the start of the kind of turn around that happened last season.

The rational, the optimist and the pessimist within me engaged in a three way struggle... But I feel we'll need to score more than one even to get a point, and hope DF sets it up accordingly...

[Prufrock]

You could argue that under Pelligrini City have been playing a conventional 4-4-2 and having a lot of success with it this season.

I imagine Dougie will get some stick if he does decide not to play 2 strikers, though I do agree that if he plays Moritz behind a striker that there isn't much of a difference.

Not if you'd seen them play . Negredo was playing as a number 9 and Aguero was given rein to go where ever he wanted, often drifting deep and left and playing off Negredo from there. Since he got injured at first it was more of a two, but even then Negredo has drifted a bit with Dzeko higher. Plus in some games he's just played Negredo with a 5 behind seeming to figure that he can't get away with a flat two.

It terms of us, I think the important thing is not the formation but the attitude. Apparently there have been signs of improvement recently and whilst usually Forest would be one to be justifiably treated with caution, we still need to be positive.

[adamworthy2002]

We'll lose.

I'm going for 3 - 1 to Forest

[BWFC_Insane]

Ngog is the only striker we've got who can hold the ball up on his own. And even then only when he's in the mood.

However I've said before, Moritz and Mark Davies, neither suit a 4 man midfield. Especially against a side so strong in that area as Forest are.

The days of 4-4-2 working most of the time are gone. It's a midfield game now, so we are right to persevere with that system. The problem is we don't have a striker ideal for playing it. However is rather we fixed that problem than massively disadvantaged Mark Davies and Moritz arguably two of our better players.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

"It could be the same personnel but maybe a different shape."

“I am trying to play good football through midfield and to create opportunities, and I’m not having that it will only come with two strikers on the pitch.”

[William the White]

Ngog is the only striker we've got who can hold the ball up on his own. And even then only when he's in the mood.

However I've said before, Moritz and Mark Davies, neither suit a 4 man midfield. Especially against a side so strong in that area as Forest are.

The days of 4-4-2 working most of the time are gone. It's a midfield game now, so we are right to persevere with that system. The problem is we don't have a striker ideal for playing it. However is rather we fixed that problem than massively disadvantaged Mark Davies and Moritz arguably two of our better players.

I agree with your assessment of Mark Davies, who is strong in a five, and you may be right about Moritz. And you are right that only Ngog can hope to play the lone role, and will be ineffective mostly. So we neither have the effective hold-the-ball lone striker, nor the scoring midfielders to change the shape to 4-3-3 (though we could live in hope here)...

Gonna be tough...

[thebish]

nahh - today's the day it clicks!

[Harry Genshaw]

nahh - today's the day it clicks!

I agree! I'm thinking of several years ago when Todd had just resigned, our debt was announced and was largely blamed on the hotel at the time and Phil Brown was caretaker manager. Forest rode into town with a classy Ian Wright playing up front for em. Neil Cox in the 90th minute won us the game 3-2.

More of the same today please

[Worthy4England]

Ngog is the only striker we've got who can hold the ball up on his own. And even then only when he's in the mood.

However I've said before, Moritz and Mark Davies, neither suit a 4 man midfield. Especially against a side so strong in that area as Forest are.

The days of 4-4-2 working most of the time are gone. It's a midfield game now, so we are right to persevere with that system. The problem is we don't have a striker ideal for playing it. However is rather we fixed that problem than massively disadvantaged Mark Davies and Moritz arguably two of our better players.

It's only clearly a midfield game, if your (for arguments sake) advanced midfielder is scoring shedloads to make up for your missing striker, and your other MF's know where the net is too, with the possible exception of your defensive midfielder(s).

If that's the case, then instead of needing a second (and possibly a first) striker, we need some new midfielders. Moritz is starting to prove his worth with 5, Danns has 4, but then we have Pratley with 2 and Eagles/Kamara with 1 a piece. So would you drop Moritz or Danns to accommodate Mavies who doesn't bag too many?

[LeverEnd]

I remember coyles initial success coming with a 442

and then his downfall came with the dropping of muamba and a stupidly light midfield with nobody who could put a tackle in.

Now we have two new muambas and a strike pair that works well, I'm sure its a team with potential

Yes I was all for 4-5-1 with Ngog when we were struggling in the Prem. Dougie is like the anti-Coyle, but not even in a good way bizarrely!
#
Anyway balls to it, pint in Scotts' then get behind the lads. Forest are due a spanking. Come on!!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Lonergan, Baptiste, Mills, Knight, Ream, Spearing, Danns, M Davies, Lee, Ngog, Beckford
Subs: Lee-Barrett, Moritz, Medo, Pratley, White, Eagles, Bolger

So two strikers, one winger, many options

Sweep: Moritz on after 68 minutes