Wanderers Vs Man U

[officer_dibble]

Thing is Davies played a big part in his own downfall withall that crap about roughing up phil jones before the match. do your talking on the pitch and gloating afterwards.

[elfil76]

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7 ... ys-It-Down

tom cleverly missing for 4 weeks will not have the same effect to manure as holden missing for us for 5 mths.

Anyway - we will "punish" SKD ourselves by starting him on the bench next match.

[aussie_wanderer]

KEVIN DAVIES HAS TO BE DROPPED, cant play those 2 slow strikers , defenders get too much time on the ball

[elfil76]

especially with ball playing defenders.. they will play their way out of defense nicely.

[ChrisC]

especially with ball playing defenders.. they will play their way out of defense nicely.

Sick of Jussi hoofin it up the pitch all game to no end result other than the other team attacking .. a few times on Saturday i seen Robinson infront of me screaming for the ball to be rolled out to him.. on one occasion he said words to the effect of for feck sake Jussi just pass it out .. so its obvious the team are getting pissed off aswell.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Yeah but think who he's passing it to.

If Jussi doesn't hump it upfield and gives it to Robinson, what do you think he's going to do?

[BWFC_Insane]

I imagine that Jussi has been pre-conditioned by the hundreds of games he played for Allardyce where he was under orders to always kick it, to always take time and to always kick it to Kevin Davies. Think his instincts have been completely dulled by that!

[Holden midfielder]

Yeah but think who he's passing it to.

If Jussi doesn't hump it upfield and gives it to Robinson, what do you think he's going to do?

Robbo would just lump it forward himself with the same end product ....
Can't blame Jussi on this one, Robbo looks nervous as hell on the ball and with one of his outlets being Zat Knight I don't blame Jussi for kicking it as far away from that lot as possible.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Correct

[aussie_wanderer]

well if we drop kevin davies we wont be able to hump it upfield

[boltonboris]

well if we drop kevin davies we wont be able to hump it upfield

Won't stop us though.... In order to play out from the back, you need somebody to come short and get it off the defenders. in a 4-2-4 it's pretty difficult for a central mid to do this, unless he's class. They only one of those we have is still out.

[elfil76]

Yeah and i hope he doesn't hump it out. If boyata still out on the right would be good to play too him once in a while.

[Peter Thompson]

I imagine that Jussi has been pre-conditioned by the hundreds of games he played for Allardyce where he was under orders to always kick it, to always take time and to always kick it to Kevin Davies. Think his instincts have been completely dulled by that!

Mybe so, but surely if Coyle and his so called goal keeping coach tell Jussi to stop lumping it and throw it out instead, then he has to do so....

He can't just do what he wants to do, he should follow the managers instructions - that's providing he's had any, perhaps Coyle doesn't mind him hoofing it to K Davies all the time because it may be that our full backs don't show for the ball and its his only option.

The whole mindset of the team needs to change to fit in with the new players we've now got who can actually play some decent football on the deck, and again that's down to Coyle to instruct & coach the players on the training ground - not just tell them to 'go out and play'.

[TANGODANCER]

If Jussi has a real glaring fault it's his lack of reaction and urgency when he gets the ball in his hands. He takes his time and lets defences re-group so a fast counter attack is as rare as rocking horse shxt. When he actually does feed it to Robinson or Steinsson (or whoever) it all slows down again because we're not good at finding space and moving the ball quicky. Stuart Holden was the player who did this and also knows how to use the ball. The difference since he's been out has been more than a bit frightening. People say Davies is slow, in fact, the whole team is slow. Maybe Ngog and Tuncay will change that.

Midfield has always been our Achiles heel. We were far more dangerous when we had the likes of Okocha, Speed and Campo in there than we've been since. Holden is the big sign of change and hopefully, when he gets back we'll see a big difference with the likes of Reo Coker etc, around him. Leaving Muamba out against a team like United was an error for me.

At least now we're beginning to look like we have a midfield and it's just unfortunate we've started the season against City, Liverpool and United before they've found their feet. United gave us a master-class in fast moving of the ball and, if we get our act together against Norwich and get Chelsea out of the way, we might just start to see a different team emerging.

Bit early to be doing any real panicking and other results are proving we're not on mission impossible. Six weeks can see a whole different ball game.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Their lad seemed to bowl it to the full-backs more than central midfielders. You don't have to give it to the middle men, but they should be a viable second-ball option for the full-backs.

Obviously our full-backs aren't universally regarded as ball-players – not only among some vocal supporters but evidently among the coaching staff. Coyle has gone on record as saying something along the lines of (ie this is not a verbatim quote) "when you have a player with the qualities of Kevin Davies you'd be daft not to know his strengths and play to them" or somesuch similar justification for the longer ball.

There's nothing wrong with mixing it up, using the old Bob Paisley maxim that "there's no such thing as a long ball or a short ball, just the right ball". Ask Swansea, who have completed more passes than any team except the Manchesters and Chelsea (yea, e'en more than Arsenal) and have scored precisely zero goals. We spent much of last season getting it quickly into the attacking third before trying to bring it down and pass it around.

But I wonder, if KD isn't playing at any point in the game, whether we'll start to bowl it out from the back rather than attempt the quick yardage. It's hard to tell, due to KD's almost total omnipresence up to now. He went off on 71 minutes at Anfield (for Pratley) and just one of Jussi's four passes after that seems to have been a short one to Robbo('s area), but in context (and justification?) we were losing and trying to get the ball up the park early.

[Gary the Enfield]

Their lad seemed to bowl it to the full-backs more than central midfielders. You don't have to give it to the middle men, but they should be a viable second-ball option for the full-backs.

Obviously our full-backs aren't universally regarded as ball-players – not only among some vocal supporters but evidently among the coaching staff. Coyle has gone on record as saying something along the lines of (ie this is not a verbatim quote) "when you have a player with the qualities of Kevin Davies you'd be daft not to know his strengths and play to them" or somesuch similar justification for the longer ball.

There's nothing wrong with mixing it up, using the old Bob Paisley maxim that "there's no such thing as a long ball or a short ball, just the right ball". Ask Swansea, who have completed more passes than any team except the Manchesters and Chelsea (yea, e'en more than Arsenal) and have scored precisely zero goals. We spent much of last season getting it quickly into the attacking third before trying to bring it down and pass it around.

But I wonder, if KD isn't playing at any point in the game, whether we'll start to bowl it out from the back rather than attempt the quick yardage. It's hard to tell, due to KD's almost total omnipresence up to now. He went off on 71 minutes at Anfield (for Pratley) and just one of Jussi's four passes after that seems to have been a short one to Robbo('s area), but in context (and justification?) we were losing and trying to get the ball up the park early.

Stark though that seems to be does it not show De Gea to be far busier than Jussi?

[BWFC_Insane]

Off topic, but how do you get that analysis out of the app DSB?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Off topic, but how do you get that analysis out of the app DSB?

Email pics to y'self (via "share" at bottom of page). Then upload them to Imageshack/Photobucket or whatever you'd normally use to post pics on forums.

Stark though that seems to be does it not show De Gea to be far busier than Jussi?

Yes... it's almost as if we had more shots than them. Oh, we did...

Perhaps (although I can't prove this without a lot of faffing) they were happier passing back to their goalkeeper than we were to ours – especially as ours tends to kick it long, which would mean picking it up. Can anyone recall them passing back for De Gea to recycle possession by laying it off to a full-back? They certainly have done before, like when he was almost caught by Rafa van der Vaart at OT.

I did watch Saturday's game in full but I'll admit I was getting increasingly red-eyed with alcohol and emotion.

[boltonboris]

United use De Gea in open play the same way you'd use a sweeper. He's always an outlet for a pass, rather than a last resort for him to thwack it away.

Good teams keep the ball ticking over. We don't

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

United use De Gea in open play the same way you'd use a sweeper. He's always an outlet for a pass, rather than a last resort for him to thwack it away.

Good teams keep the ball ticking over. We don't

Aye. Van der Sar was always much the same, that's what helped him get the nod at Ajax when Louis van Gaal wanted to go 3-3-1-3 and this young kid was proving himself almost a sweeper-keeper. Even as he reached his forties he could and would still make himself available.

Like you say, ball retention is vital to "passing" teams. We should be much better at it, especially as we've still (for now) got Cahill who doesn't act like he's just been presented with a pinless grenade.