Nat Lofthouse statue

[keveh]

Cheers for that brilliant contribution LL!

John, from what I've read on here and other places, the most popular image of Nat that people would like to see made in to the statue would be the one where he is holding up the cup whilst being lifted by team mates. Similar to these:





It's definitely unique, like you were saying, but how possible would that be?

[Worthy4England]

Can we not have that one Brucie has for an avatar? The one where he's barging that DMB into the back of the net to win the thing?

That would be unique.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Bit complex

but

[Worthy4England]

That's the one.

[John Pilkington]

John, from what I've read on here and other places, the most popular image of Nat that people would like to see made in to the statue would be the one where he is holding up the cup whilst being lifted by team mates. Similar to these:





It's definitely unique, like you were saying, but how possible would that be?

I do like that pose of Nat and it would be possible to create it, but I think that in having to choose just one pose for a statue there are several points that must be considered, and the "powers that be" will need to think very carefully in reaching their decision. Some of the points are as follows:
1. Do people want to remember Nat for any specific achievement which would be captured in a statue such as his scoring the two goals and winning the 1958 FA Cup Final?
2. Nat earned the nickname of "Lion of Vienna" and scored an incredible 30 goals in 33 matches as an England international player, so should he wear an England shirt rather than a BWFC shirt in any statue?
3. Do people want to remember Nat first and foremost as a BWFC player for his great club record of 255 goals in 452 appearances for Bolton Wanderers, the only club he played for?
4. The majority of people will never have seen Nat play football but remember him for everything he has done to keep BWFC going once his playing days were over, so should he be portrayed in a suit or overcoat in the way that most people will have seen him?

My own opinion is that if a statue of Nat holding the FA Cup aloft was chosen, it tends to celebrate the 1958 FA Cup win by the entire BWFC team more than 50 years after the event rather than commemorate Nat himself. Likewise, in a pose of Nat being held on the shoulders of his team-mates, do you include the faces of the other players in a statue? If so, how many other players do you include; just 2, or more of the other players, as in those photos?

Although Nat was the Lion of Vienna and a terrific International player, he will always be associated with BWFC and Bolton, so he should wear a BWFC shirt if any commemorative statue is of him as a player.

Although most people alive today wouldn't have seen Lofty play, and although he will be remembered by many as an all-round gentleman and great Boltonian, he first gained his immense personal reputation as Bolton Wanderers best-ever player and an "all time" great footballer, so he should be portrayed in BWFC playing kit of his era.

I made a portrait bust of Lofty a few years ago using a very limited number of very poor photos that I found on the internet. Here are a couple of photos of the bust in clay. If I were to have the honour of making any statue, I would endeavour to obtain some large original detailed photos to work from.

[thebish]

excellent work!

[officer_dibble]

You look the business mate, and well done on consulting with the fans.

Images we are talking about are fine. I have to say for uniqueness, charging Harry Gregg into the net wins.....but you'd be including a DMB in the statue then....seems like a waste of bronze or whatever it is you will use!

FA Cup one then for me.

[Little Green Man]

Quite liked this one of Nat by himself with the FA Cup.



Talking of cups...

http://www.art247.com/Mug/5300-Nat-Lofthouse

[TANGODANCER]

Think it has to be the pit lad for me. There are statue's everywhere of blokes in footbal kit holding balls and in various standing, kicking positions etc. Nat was unique in Bolton and not just a footballer, not just an F.A Cup winner, not even just an england player but a legend. He deserves something very special that makes him different. The grinning pit lad carrying a football or swinging a pair of football boots would do just that, with the legend "Nat Lofthouse, The Lion of Vienna" on the base?

[Lord Kangana]

Don't even think it needs Nat Lofthouse at the bottom. Just "The Lion of Vienna".

Everyone will know what it means anyway.

[John Pilkington]

Think it has to be the pit lad for me. There are statue's everywhere of blokes in footbal kit holding balls and in various standing, kicking positions etc. Nat was unique in Bolton and not just a footballer, not just an F.A Cup winner, not even just an england player but a legend. He deserves something very special that makes him different. The grinning pit lad carrying a football or swinging a pair of football boots would do just that, with the legend "Nat Lofthouse, The Lion of Vienna" on the base?

I like the idea of producing something different to all the other footballer statues, and I can see the attraction of portraying Lofty as a working lad and man of the people of Bolton, who played professional football as his second job. The bit that would concern me in this particular instance is this: are all famous Boltonians to be portrayed in commemorative statues in working clothes? I'm thinking Fred Dibnah (Andy Capp) here!

[TANGODANCER]

I've seen Fred Dibnah two or three times in the flesh and several on TV programme series. I've never yet seen him dressed any differently than overalls and a flat cap.

You may have a point, but Nat was what he was, a man of his roots and the people. The final choice will be made by others, the "pit lad" 's just mine, (excuse the bad pun) and just an opinion, is all.

[$huttgun]

I would like to see Lofty's statue pay reference to his support and association with football in Bolton after playing. I just can't think how to do it. With being just a young whippersnapper, I never saw Nat play myself. But I remember him at Burnden Park and at local do's and then later around the boxes at the Reebok. He was there just like we were there - because he loved Bolton Wanderers, I just can't think of a way of showing he meant more to Boltononians than beating Utd.

I'm not belittling that victory btw, my dad was only 6 weeks at the time and I have my own much stronger memories.
He'd want to be remembered for being a good lad, not just for one game.

[John Pilkington]

I've seen Fred Dibnah two or three times in the flesh and several on TV programme series. I've never yet seen him dressed any differently than overalls and a flat cap.

You may have a point, but Nat was what he was, a man of his roots and the people. The final choice will be made by others, the "pit lad" 's just mine, (excuse the bad pun) and just an opinion, is all.

Please don't get me wrong, I really do like the idea, and I'm just thinking out loud. I know that you can't please all the people all of the time and since once a statue has been made it can't be adjusted, it's best to do all the discussion before rather than after the thing is made.

At 58, I must be one of the youngest people to have witnessed and remember watching the return of the BWFC team to Burnden Park with the FA Cup in 1958 and watch Lofty play at Burnden Park. It meant SO MUCH to my Dad to watch all this and to take me to watch Bolton when Lofty was still playing - my Dad went to Wembley in 1953 and was at Burnden Park when the terraces collapsed in 1946 (killing 33 fans and injuring some 400). Back in the 1950s all the people of Bolton thought the world of Lofty and thought that he was just the same as them but with a remarkable talent. I think it is absolutely brilliant that more than 50 years on, Lofty managed to connect with all of the generations since that time, and that Boltonians still adore him, as do I!

[John Pilkington]

I would like to see Lofty's statue pay reference to his support and association with football in Bolton after playing. I just can't think how to do it. With being just a young whippersnapper, I never saw Nat play myself. But I remember him at Burnden Park and at local do's and then later around the boxes at the Reebok. He was there just like we were there - because he loved Bolton Wanderers, I just can't think of a way of showing he meant more to Boltononians than beating Utd.

I'm not belittling that victory btw, my dad was only 6 weeks at the time and I have my own much stronger memories.
He'd want to be remembered for being a good lad, not just for one game.

Take a look at the commemorative statue of Sir Stanley Matthews. This statue depicts Matthews' skill at dribbling, by showing 3 different poses, so equally, it would be possible to make several different depictions of Lofty in several different poses, all within one commemorative piece of sculpture. That way many different generations of fans could all have their own best memories captured for posterity.

[enrdentw]

I've seen Fred Dibnah two or three times in the flesh and several on TV programme series. I've never yet seen him dressed any differently than overalls and a flat cap.

You may have a point, but Nat was what he was, a man of his roots and the people. The final choice will be made by others, the "pit lad" 's just mine, (excuse the bad pun) and just an opinion, is all.

Do you know the story behind Bank Top Brewery naming the beer Flat Cap, it's an interesting, slightly funny story...

[Dujon]

Hello, John. I posted earlier that my contribution to this thread had finished but, seeing as a real sculptor has taken the trouble to have a chat with those who admired Mr L., I'm breaking my promise.

I rather like the idea of some sort of "triptych" but in a slightly different setting. For those who are unaware of the Matthews statue http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/content/imag ... 03x152.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; should show you what it's like (It is sited at Stoke's Brittania Stadium).

Should that be physically possible and within the bounds of any financial constrictions - which I suspect would be a problem - the idea is to use the image of Nat as a young man leaving the mine (the one which seanworth and TANGO referenced), looking forward, and two other constructs - one of Nat in BWFC football gear looking back towards the youngster and another of him dressed in his 'proper' managerial clobber also looking back at himself. In a sense the three would form a triangle of unequal sides, with the older Nat a little farther from the youngster than the player. How that would transform into the use of space, particularly its 'footprint' I have no idea. You're the expert mi-lad. I don't think I need to dwell on its intrinsic meaning.

Cheers.

[Lord Kangana]

Gets my vote.

Thats quite brilliant btw Dujon.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I've got a really nifty picture of Riga that you could use for your template.

Let me know if you need it

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I've got a really nifty picture of Riga that you could use for your template.

Let me know if you need it

Let me know if you want me to pull the pin out of the grenade (before it comes in your direction) today LL.