Bolton v Wolves

[superjohnmcginlay]

On topic - We have to beat wolves. We should beat Wolves. We have more options now so freshening up required from Coyle. This is a good squad, better than we've had for a while, and we'll see some great games out of them again this season. Let's start tomorrow.

So it's a 0-0 shitefest then? Can't wait.

[Worthy4England]

Fook me I think they must've passed some wacky baccy through the window before it slammed shut.

Let's put a team out with 18 attacking players in it who are noted for their ability to tackle.

How the fook some people think we're going to be able to attack when we can't win the ball to attack with, is beyond me.

Not sure what you are getting at here Worthy. Are you arguing that we should have brought a central midfielder in or that what we have is not good enough?

Bit of both when you move onto your second set of picks

Anyway - we played some great games in the first half of the season by winning the ball in midfield and the 2 upfront playing well. That team was essentially:

First half of the season, we won 7 games - Petrov started less than half of those 7 as did Ricketts. Taylor and Steinnson started 4 of them each. Mark Davies started one - yet he appears to have become the new Riga.

------------Jussi
Ricketts---Cahill---Knight---Robbo
CYL-----Muamba--Holden---Petrov
--------SKD---Elmander

The absence of CYL, Holden's injury and poor performances from Petrov/Taylor/SKD has meant changes to the team and underperforming on the pitch. I also think that we have been found out by better teams in midfield when playing 4/4/2 and need to look at perhaps slotting in M Davies in midfield to shore up the numbers and add an attacking flair from midfield.
This is why I like the look of a 4-5-1 as per the General's suggestion:

---------------Jussi
Ricketts---Cahill---Wheater---Robbo
--------Moo------Holden
CYL-----------------------Rodriguo
-------------M Davies
-------------Sturridge

I'm not too fussed about Ricketts in for Steinsson, but then we get Rodrigo, Mavis and Sturridge. On what basis other than we know little about them and they're not SKD, Elmander, Taylor or Petrov?

This gives us the 5 in midfield with an attacking option.

I'm certainly happier with Mavies in a 5 man MF than a 4 man. Can't see OC going for it though, and he still has a lot to do to convince me he has Prem quality in his game.

Obviously we can't expect Sturridge to walk straight into the team but I like the thinking of trying something new up front. For me it also addresses the main weakness of the team which is the left side of midfield.

So games like WBA at home, Liverpool away, City away, you spotted a weakness down the left, rather than all through the midfield - including centre and right?

Rodders is probably a better option than Petrov or Taylor given their current form.

Not convinced yet. He's scored one and set one up in just over 5 1/2 hours pitch time - which isn't too shoddy, but hardly clear cut either. That's not saying I think he's bad, looks quite comfortable on the ball, even though he occasionally falls over it. Defensively I'm less convinced. If that was an isolated change, I think maybe it would be worth a shot, but with changing formation and adding a new striker at the expense of both our existing ones, I think adds to the risk, alongside the includsion of Mavies - who's started two games that we've won in the last season and a half - and one of them we only turned around after he'd got his marching orders. The other was against Pompey. Sturridge we know sod all about - 2 starts and 24 sub appearances in 2 years - 1 goal. That's with Chelsea's midfield supplying him. Probably doesn't tell the whole story but an immediate shoo-in for two strikers on 9 and 7 goals for the season? Can't see it myself as a lone striker upfront.

We now have the option of rotating the front player and/or changeing to a more attacking 4-4-2 given the opposition/how the game is going etc.

A few words on SKD. At the start of the season I thought we had seen the best of Kev, but his performances up to the end of November were on the whole very good, and at times, excellent. Starting every game and playing 90 minutes has to take its toll, especially over the Christmas period, even for a younger man. I can't think of another forward in the PL who plays every game without a rest (though I am sure someone will prove me wrong). The addition of another striker now gives us the option of rotation of the front line. Rotating SKD out will give him a chance to recoup his energy levels and enthusiasm so lacking in recent games. We place too heavy a demand on him and not starting him on occasion does not mean we can't use him as an impact sub in those games. If we stop running him into the ground we'll see the best of him again.

There's only 15 players on 24 starts - 4 of 'em are from Bolton...3 are keepers, most of the rest are defenders. Ours happen to be SKD, Elmander, Muamba and Knight. That's a significant part of the spine of the team - I think you're right, they're knackered. I'm sure Coyle has previously said something along the lines of wanting to play every game when he was a lad etc... wonder if that's part of the reason why?

On topic - We have to beat wolves. We should beat Wolves. We have more options now so freshening up required from Coyle. This is a good squad, better than we've had for a while, and we'll see some great games out of them again this season. Let's start tomorrow.

Frightening..

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Bloody hell Worthy thats a right pudding of a reply there !

[thebish]

There's only 15 players on 24 starts - 4 of 'em are from Bolton...3 are keepers, most of the rest are defenders. Ours happen to be SKD, Elmander, Muamba and Knight. That's a significant part of the spine of the team - I think you're right, they're knackered.

that's a very telling STAT indeed!

Worthy is the veritable KING of well-honed - finely targetted stats.

[General Mannerheim]

Except its not correct. Muamba didnt start against Blackburn @home if you recall? he scored after arriving from the bench too.

[Worthy4England]

Except its not correct. Muamba didnt start against Blackburn @home if you recall? he scored after arriving from the bench too.

Should have said appearances - Oops.

[thebish]

Except its not correct. Muamba didnt start against Blackburn @home if you recall? he scored after arriving from the bench too.

'tis a VERY dangerous game to challenge Worthy's stats!!!

[General Mannerheim]

so there are only 15 players on 24 appearances?

[Worthy4England]

so there are only 15 players on 24 appearances?

Yessir.

There's quite a lot on 23 though - and a number of those for teams that have only played 23 matches...

[Wandering Willy]

Great reply there Worthy. I'll try to answer without filling up the page with quotes!!

I'm not too fussed about Ricketts in for Steinsson, but then we get Rodrigo, Mavis and Sturridge. On what basis other than we know little about them and they're not SKD, Elmander, Taylor or Petrov?

I think we seen enough of M Davies that suggests his game is improving and will be a good fit in a 5 man midfield. On Rodriguo, as I have said, it's a toss up between him and Taylor/Petrov so probably worth a shot. He tracked back and defended very well away at Chelsea. Sturridge- as above, not going to be put in first game. Will be great if he lives up to expectations and provides another option going forward.

So games like WBA at home, Liverpool away, City away, you spotted a weakness down the left, rather than all through the midfield - including centre and right?

No - we were weak throughout midfield but particularly on the left. A 5 man midfield should help here especially at tough away games like Liverpool and City (which we lost by one goal incidentally).


Coyle is faced with a couple of interesting and not unrelated questions at the moment:

1. Do we change the formation to a 4-5-1 for some games?
2. Do we make wholesale changes to the team?

I think the first is easy - we are obviously being overrun with 4 in the middle in some games. I would stick M Davies behind the striker. This also takes some pressure off Muamba who is good defesively but poor with distribution and going fowards. The extra man in midfield allows us to make someone more readily available and move the ball forward with, dare I say it, a more capable player. M Davies and Holden are our 2 best players with the ball at their feet and given our game is both more attractive and effective when played on the ground I would have them both starting.

The second is not so easy - what do you when a player is tired and/or underperforming? You rest him right? However, what do you do when you have 3,4 or 5 in that situation? If you change them all you leave yourself open to having a team that hasn't had time to play together. If you stick with what you have you risk more of the same. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I recognise that it's very easy for us to sit here and say do this, do that, change this, change that but we're not in the hot seat. Who'd be a manager eh? (Well, I would actually, for the money - I just wouldn't be any good )

[Tombwfc]

----------------Jussi----------------------
-Steinsson---Cahill---Knight------Robinson--
----------Muamba------Holden--------------
----------------M.Davies-------------------
-Davies---------------------------Sturridge--
-----------------Elmander-------------------

Would that give us a lack of width? Maybe, I suppose that's what subs are for. Of course there's no point playing out of form/knackered/generally not good players just because they are 'wingers'.

[Wandering Willy]

----------------Jussi----------------------
-Steinsson---Cahill---Knight------Robinson--
----------Muamba------Holden--------------
----------------M.Davies-------------------
-Davies---------------------------Sturridge--
-----------------Elmander-------------------

Would that give us a lack of width? Maybe, I suppose that's what subs are for. Of course there's no point playing out of form/knackered/generally not good players just because they are 'wingers'.

Not sure we will start a game like that but we could finish one with that lineup.

[Worthy4England]

Coyle is faced with a couple of interesting and not unrelated questions at the moment:

1. Do we change the formation to a 4-5-1 for some games?
2. Do we make wholesale changes to the team?

I think the first is easy - we are obviously being overrun with 4 in the middle in some games. I would stick M Davies behind the striker. This also takes some pressure off Muamba who is good defesively but poor with distribution and going fowards. The extra man in midfield allows us to make someone more readily available and move the ball forward with, dare I say it, a more capable player. M Davies and Holden are our 2 best players with the ball at their feet and given our game is both more attractive and effective when played on the ground I would have them both starting.

The second is not so easy - what do you when a player is tired and/or underperforming? You rest him right? However, what do you do when you have 3,4 or 5 in that situation? If you change them all you leave yourself open to having a team that hasn't had time to play together. If you stick with what you have you risk more of the same. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I recognise that it's very easy for us to sit here and say do this, do that, change this, change that but we're not in the hot seat. Who'd be a manager eh? (Well, I would actually, for the money - I just wouldn't be any good )

In the spirit of mutual back-slapping - great couple of posts yourself.

I think you're right on question 1. There has to be a case for playing a 5 man midfield in some games as we just get overrun. But looking at the other end of the pitch, to play 5 across the MF, we have to sacrifice a forward. We probably also have to take some time in training, to work out how to transition attack into defence and vice-versa. One of the complaints about Megson's 4-5-1 was that it was too rigid and too defensive, so all we did was punt the ball towards Davo who had no support. Just switching Davo or Elmo out for someone with pace might not alleviate that problem much, Sturridge would still have 4 defenders to get behind and quite possibly little support.

The problem I have with the 4-5-1 and our current squad is scoring goals. If you have the extra MF, then you need goals from MF to make up for the "missing" forward. I'm not sure Mavies has that aspect to his game, and that's why I was thinking we needed a MF signing, either defensive - to give Moo/Holden a break and allow us to carry on 4-4-2 or attacking and better than Mavies to allow us to go 4-5-1, but with a goalscoring attacking threat from MF. At the minute our main goalscoring threat from MF is sat generally on the bench, which isn't entirely surprising as he gives the ball away too much and is poor defensively. We have 32 league goals, our front 2 have got half of them, the 5 MF's have 7 between them, although with a lot less playing time, and I'm not convinced a 5 man MF with Mavies in there would necessarily be much more defensive than a 4 man MF, so we might still need to score plenty.

On the wholesale changes point. Can't see it happening, especially not tomorrow night as I'm sure Coyle still believes our best 11 is better than Wolves best 11. I'd be surprised if we went 4-5-1. I'd be even more surprised if it was the 4-5-1 mentioned. Can't see it differing much from (and I think it's just about the most sensible decision)...

Jussi

Ricketts, (2 from Cahill, Wheater, Knight), Robinson

Taylor, Holden, Muamba, Petrov/Rodrigo

SKD, Elmander.

Assuming CYL is knackered...If not then probably CYL for Petrov/Rodrigo and Taylor switching flanks.

[Wandering Willy]

Jussi

Ricketts, (2 from Cahill, Wheater, Knight), Robinson

Taylor, Holden, Muamba, Petrov/Rodrigo

SKD, Elmander.

Assuming CYL is knackered...If not then probably CYL for Petrov/Rodrigo and Taylor switching flanks.

I think this is what we will see with M Davies and the non starter from Petrov/Rodrigo coming on. Hopefully we will get our first look at Sturridge tomorrow. Arse/steps if it's SKD and not Elmander that comes off.

Is Lee back with the squad?

[RobbieSavagesLeg]

We'll start with the same team and formation that beat Wolves the last time - cept maybe resting CYL because of Let Jag.

Why not eh? And bring on all 15 stirker supersubs at 77 minutes.

[TANGODANCER]

Cophilie runs the rule over our chances:

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/bolton/wolves-or-sheep" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Wandering Willy]

A refreshing breath of optimism there Cophile. Good job.

[spikeykev]

Really need a win tomorrow to get us back up the table, it's a huge game for us esp. with Everton winning at half time. Hopefully we'll have a full strike force with Klasnic fit and Sturridge, Elmander and Davies. Didn't CYL score when he had jetlag last time, I'd start him till he passes out then bring on Rodrigo

[Gaz Tomorrow]

Fook me I think they must've passed some wacky baccy through the window before it slammed shut.

Let's put a team out with 18 attacking players in it who are noted for their ability to tackle.

How the fook some people think we're going to be able to attack when we can't win the ball to attack with, is beyond me.

Not sure what you are getting at here Worthy. Are you arguing that we should have brought a central midfielder in or that what we have is not good enough?

Bit of both when you move onto your second set of picks

Anyway - we played some great games in the first half of the season by winning the ball in midfield and the 2 upfront playing well. That team was essentially:

First half of the season, we won 7 games - Petrov started less than half of those 7 as did Ricketts. Taylor and Steinnson started 4 of them each. Mark Davies started one - yet he appears to have become the new Riga.

------------Jussi
Ricketts---Cahill---Knight---Robbo
CYL-----Muamba--Holden---Petrov
--------SKD---Elmander

The absence of CYL, Holden's injury and poor performances from Petrov/Taylor/SKD has meant changes to the team and underperforming on the pitch. I also think that we have been found out by better teams in midfield when playing 4/4/2 and need to look at perhaps slotting in M Davies in midfield to shore up the numbers and add an attacking flair from midfield.
This is why I like the look of a 4-5-1 as per the General's suggestion:

---------------Jussi
Ricketts---Cahill---Wheater---Robbo
--------Moo------Holden
CYL-----------------------Rodriguo
-------------M Davies
-------------Sturridge


what does anyone think of

--------------------jussi--------------
------Ricketts--Cahill---Wheater--Rob--
----------Muamba---Holden----------
CYL---------------------------Taylor--
--------------Moreno-----------------
------Sturridge/Davies/Elmo-----------

[TANGODANCER]

what does anyone think of

--------------------jussi--------------
------Ricketts--Cahill---Wheater--Rob--
----------Muamba---Holden----------
CYL---------------------------Taylor--
--------------Moreno-----------------
------Sturridge/Davies/Elmo-----------

I'd rather see Mark Davies where Moreno is ( although he probably won't start there anyway because we'll go with Elmo and KD up front and probably throw Sturridge in the mix for Elmo later) with the option of him and Petrov as wing replacements if needed. Klasnic might get a late run if we're losing, but I doubt it.