Wanderers away at Millwall

[thebish]

this season seems so OLD already...

saturdays never seem shiny with possibility....

it's all so depressing

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

It is like last season never ended Bish

[Peter Thompson]

this season seems so OLD already...

saturdays never seem shiny with possibility....

it's all so depressing

Bish - I agree, but would add that this season already is so predictable again in the way we play (Coyle hasn't changed a thing in 2 1/2 years), the goals we concede are sloppy, our defending is still amateur, the chances we waste and the excuses and inability of Coyle to find any sort of winning solution.

His stubboness to never accept that anything is ever his fault, his failure to replace his amateur coaching staff (his mates) when its obvious to most that they are simply not good enough, and offer nothing.

And as the season already is looking like yet another struggle, in a lower league and we are as disorganised as ever - its now the fans fault for all the negativity, its the fans fault that we don't score enough goals, its the fans fault we defend like a sunday league team, the refs fault our defenders give away stupid penalties with unnecessary poor tackles.

And now the old Megson ''People in football will understand that, people out of football won't” this is so disrespectful to the supporters.

I so want us to win today, it's depressing to see us near the bottom of the championship but even if we do it will make no difference, because we would probably lose the next game - with Coyle its one step forward, 3 steps back.

He's lost the fans big time, he's in Megson territory in terms of now not being at all liked (and I suspect he lost the players months ago !)....

[Annoyed Grunt]

this season seems so OLD already...

saturdays never seem shiny with possibility....

it's all so depressing

You're not wrong there, Bish.

[TANGODANCER]

Going to get my knuckles rapped here, but it has to be said. Amidst all the depression, the movement and play that led to our chances on Tuesday was actually very good. Leaving out the goals from set pieces, Coyle can hardly carry the can for players not shooting accurately. Eagles was unlucky twice in hitting a post and hitting one of his own players (who couldn't possibly have got out of the way. It's still our final ball/shot etc that's the difference between winning and losing. A manager also can't cop for a bad tackle that gives a way a penalty, or players not being in position and being caught out. The players have to take some flack for that: "horse to water" etc. No team in this league is going to dominate for the full ninety minutes or there'd be something really wrong with the opposition.

In no way defending his overall approach, but neither Tuesday or the comments he came out with since (which I read as "forget what they're doing and concentrate on ourselves") are having that much wrong in them for me. Play like that again and we'll get the win, I'm sure of it. COME ON YOU WHITES...

Dons helmet and kevlar stab vest and awaits the flack-attack.

[bwfcdan94]

Team news:
Petrov unlikely to feature with back injury but David Ngog likely to be involved

I second what Bish is saying for the first season in ages i havent looked forward to saturdays anymore that i have any other day of the week. Saturday now means Bolton will lose again instead of i wonder how we will do today

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Going to get my knuckles rapped here, but it has to be said. Amidst all the depression, the movement and play that led to our chances on Tuesday was actually very good. Leaving out the goals from set pieces, Coyle can hardly carry the can for players not shooting accurately. Eagles was unlucky twice in hitting a post and hitting one of his own players (who couldn't possibly have got out of the way. It's still our final ball/shot etc that's the difference between winning and losing. A manager also can't cop for a bad tackle that gives a way a penalty, or players not being in position and being caught out. The players have to take some flack for that: "horse to water" etc. No team in this league is going to dominate for the full ninety minutes or there'd be something really wrong with the opposition.

In no way defending his overall approach, but neither Tuesday or the comments he came out with since (which I read as "forget what they're doing and concentrate on ourselves") are having that much wrong in them for me. Play like that again and we'll get the win, I'm sure of it. COME ON YOU WHITES...

Dons helmet and kevlar stab vest and awaits the flack-attack.

No need for the flack jacket Tango. I do think when players are repeating the same mistakes for weeks, months or even years it is the manager who takes responsibility. If players are lunging in week in week out that is a problem. Why are we lunging in? Is it because we lack shape? Is it concentration? Is it laziness? Proper coaching teaches good habits. Proper coaching drills position into players to keep shape. There are ways to improve concentration and laziness is not acceptable. A manager and coaches should be dealing with these issues. Yes, things happen from time to time, but if we're giving away penalties every game, the manager should be bashing heads and drilling it into them not to fecking lunge in.

[Gravedigger]

Going to get my knuckles rapped here, but it has to be said. Amidst all the depression, the movement and play that led to our chances on Tuesday was actually very good. Leaving out the goals from set pieces, Coyle can hardly carry the can for players not shooting accurately. Eagles was unlucky twice in hitting a post and hitting one of his own players (who couldn't possibly have got out of the way. It's still our final ball/shot etc that's the difference between winning and losing. A manager also can't cop for a bad tackle that gives a way a penalty, or players not being in position and being caught out. The players have to take some flack for that: "horse to water" etc. No team in this league is going to dominate for the full ninety minutes or there'd be something really wrong with the opposition.

In no way defending his overall approach, but neither Tuesday or the comments he came out with since (which I read as "forget what they're doing and concentrate on ourselves") are having that much wrong in them for me. Play like that again and we'll get the win, I'm sure of it. COME ON YOU WHITES...

Dons helmet and kevlar stab vest and awaits the flack-attack.

No need for the flack jacket Tango. I do think when players are repeating the same mistakes for weeks, months or even years it is the manager who takes responsibility. If players are lunging in week in week out that is a problem. Why are we lunging in? Is it because we lack shape? Is it concentration? Is it laziness? Proper coaching teaches good habits. Proper coaching drills position into players to keep shape. There are ways to improve concentration and laziness is not acceptable. A manager and coaches should be dealing with these issues. Yes, things happen from time to time, but if we're giving away penalties every game, the manager should be bashing heads and drilling it into them not to fecking lunge in.

Or is it because the players want rid of him too thus are never going to play "Properly". Milwall should show, again, any schoolboy errors the players make. JSL

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Or is it because the players want rid of him too thus are never going to play "Properly". Milwall should show, again, any schoolboy errors the players make. JSL

I think it is just sloppy and lazy. A by-product of the culture and malaise surrounding the club for the last 18+ months. Proper management would sort it out, rather than the ping pong approach that now defines Owen Coyle's tenure here...

[Peter Thompson]

No need for the flack jacket Tango. I do think when players are repeating the same mistakes for weeks, months or even years it is the manager who takes responsibility. If players are lunging in week in week out that is a problem. Why are we lunging in? Is it because we lack shape? Is it concentration? Is it laziness? Proper coaching teaches good habits. Proper coaching drills position into players to keep shape. There are ways to improve concentration and laziness is not acceptable. A manager and coaches should be dealing with these issues. Yes, things happen from time to time, but if we're giving away penalties every game, the manager should be bashing heads and drilling it into them not to fecking lunge in.

Nail on head....

[Prufrock]

It's playing too high a line. Leeds, Wednesday and Palace all came from defenders running back towards their own goal making daft tackles.

[Peter Thompson]

It's playing too high a line. Leeds, Wednesday and Palace all came from defenders running back towards their own goal making daft tackles.

Which is down to basic coaching is it not....

[Prufrock]

I dunno, what he says isn't, in itself, that stupid. If you ignore the two years of bollocks.

Depends what you mean by tactics.

You don't have to obsess about their shape v your shape, do they have overlapping wingers, they they like to play two or three passes through midfield. Not to knock that approach, but you don't need dossiers. Clough said he never bothered with tactics. Ferguson will say he hasn't changed his tactics depending who he plays. Clough on the other hand would make sure he got his balance right. He'd have a winger on one side, and a wide midfielder on the other (say a Petrov on one side, a Taylor on the other). Ferguson would keep the same 'tactics' but swap an out an out winger in Giggs for workaholic Park, ball-playing Scholes for energy man Fletcher. Some would call that tactics, others wouldn't. Basically I think our Owen has read books about them saying tactics don't win games (meant in a 4-5-1 isn't inherently better than 4-4-2 way) and interpreted that as 'we don't need to defend set pieces'.

Clough was managing in a different era and Ferguson has a squad worth hundreds of millions of pounds. A club like ours needs to squeeze out every little bit of advantage it can, whether through training techniques, video technology, or tactics. I think in part that's what made Allardyce successful: nothing was unconsidered, nothing was left to chance.

You think Clough didn't need to eek out every advantage to take a second tier team up, win the league, then win two European Cups. Or are you buying into the myth that he did it all through sheer force of personality?

All I'm saying is it depends what you mean by tactics.

You don't necessarily need 100 page dossiers on the opposition so you know the various probabilities of their right back throwing it to each player when he takes throw ins near the half way line when his team are losing. If you get your shape right, you get your defenders playing in areas they are comfortable, if you have a plan for what you want to do when you get the ball, and if you get your set pieces right, these are the massive things that the rest is just tweaks on top of. Some people call that tactics (I would) some don't (Clough wouldn't). If you don't call that tactics, then tactics aren't the most important thing. All that means it isn't necessarily ridiculous to say 'tactics don't win games' or whatever, as long as your defence are comfortable, you play in away that gets the best out of your attacking talents, and you defend set pieces well. So, nice one, Owen.

[Prufrock]

It's playing too high a line. Leeds, Wednesday and Palace all came from defenders running back towards their own goal making daft tackles.

Which is down to basic coaching is it not....

Indeed. It doesn't look like an accident. I cannot see Zat Knight and Matt Mills choosing to leave that much room in behind them off their own bat. And if they are, it's glaringly obviously bad, and needs fixing. By the manager.

Point I'm making is given the nature of the penalties given away, I think a portion of the blame DOES lie with the management. We're agreeing !

Not all the blame mind, Zat Knight said something ludicrous after the Palace tackle like 'I'd do it again'. Even if you think it wasn't a penalty Zat, and it blatantly was, why would you do it again when it gave away a penalty?!

[TANGODANCER]

Point I'm making is given the nature of the penalties given away, I think a portion of the blame DOES lie with the management. We're agreeing !

It certainly lies with somebody. Four in four games, and all by different defenders? Maybe we should paint a red line across the pitch to show he difference between too high and too deep defending. Do you have to pay tax in football for occupying certain areas of your workplace?

[thebish]

Point I'm making is given the nature of the penalties given away, I think a portion of the blame DOES lie with the management. We're agreeing !

It certainly lies with somebody. Four in four games, and all by different defenders? Maybe we should paint a red line across the pitch to show he difference between too high and too deep defending. Do you have to pay tax in football for occupying certain areas of your workplace?

I pay a shedload of tax for occupying the moral high ground....

[Peter Thompson]

Indeed. It doesn't look like an accident. I cannot see Zat Knight and Matt Mills choosing to leave that much room in behind them off their own bat. And if they are, it's glaringly obviously bad, and needs fixing. By the manager.

Point I'm making is given the nature of the penalties given away, I think a portion of the blame DOES lie with the management. We're agreeing !

Not all the blame mind, Zat Knight said something ludicrous after the Palace tackle like 'I'd do it again'. Even if you think it wasn't a penalty Zat, and it blatantly was, why would you do it again when it gave away a penalty?!

Yes there's always a 1st time for everything

Regarding Knight's comments, I think its just his usual arrogance and the 'holiday camp' OC philosophy. We urgently need a manager who the players would possibly look upto and respect, and who could install some discipline in the side in terms of making sure the players carried out the managers instructions out on the pitch - as opposed to Coyle's clappy clappy 'just go out and play, don't worry about tactics, shape or organisation, just enjoy yourselves & score more than the opposition' alleged instructions.

And if we lose (again) like we do more often than not, Coyle will just continue to blame everyone else but himself and tell the fans that they no nothing about football, so their opinions count for nothing - just pay us your money and shut the fcuk up your only supporters

[Verbal]

FOOTBALL

first xi from twitter: Bogdan, Mears, Mills, Knight, Warnock, M Davies, Spearing, Andrews, Eagles, K Davies, Ngog

[Little Green Man]

Bogdan, Mears, Mills, Knight, Warnock, M Davies, Spearing, Andrews, Eagles, K Davies, Ngog

Mmmmmmm...

[thebish]

is KD on some kind of rejuvenation drugs? he must be averaging 2 games a week now!