Worried!!

[bobo the clown]

It remains the case that Eddie Davies will only get part of the debt back unless we accidentally get promoted. Outside buyers will be most interested the more desperate we become, as our value drops (& thus the amount ED will have to take as a hit rises).

Given the massive, & ongoing, increase in money flowing into the Premiership ED panicked at the wrong time. Poor poker really.

But it remains that the money owed is largely owed to the owner. So he needs a buyer and to take a loss ... a big loss and nothing other than simply collapsing the club will get him, or his inheritors, out of that. And as a collapse will lead to the people owed money to lose what they're owed he's unlikely to do that to himself.

If we're in a mess then Eddie Davies is in a worse one.

Meanwhile ... & I'm not a big "Gartside is a crook" type .... PG"S income is outrageous. For someone who's heading a car-crash business he's fortunate to still be in the role. That his income remains so high is curious.

[StaffsTrotter]

It remains the case that Eddie Davies will only get part of the debt back unless we accidentally get promoted. Outside buyers will be most interested the more desperate we become, as our value drops (& thus the amount ED will have to take as a hit rises).

It is an interesting one wrt ED. On the face of it, he must realise that he won't get most of it back. But as I put on the transfer thread this morning, QPR have dodged the FFP bullet by Fernandes writing off the debt for the loans he gave. Clearly that's an option for ED. Having the scale of debt we have, doesn't help anyone. Easy to say, but you almost think that it would help if ED wrote off a substantial part - remove the cloud constantly over the club, but presumably this would set a figure as to what ED wants back - which I guess is the issue - he wants as much as possible and to be the subject of negotiation with any buyers

[jaffka]

It remains the case that Eddie Davies will only get part of the debt back unless we accidentally get promoted. Outside buyers will be most interested the more desperate we become, as our value drops (& thus the amount ED will have to take as a hit rises).

Given the massive, & ongoing, increase in money flowing into the Premiership ED panicked at the wrong time. Poor poker really.

But it remains that the money owed is largely owed to the owner. So he needs a buyer and to take a loss ... a big loss and nothing other than simply collapsing the club will get him, or his inheritors, out of that. And as a collapse will lead to the people owed money to lose what they're owed he's unlikely to do that to himself.

If we're in a mess then Eddie Davies is in a worse one.

Meanwhile ... & I'm not a big "Gartside is a crook" type .... PG"S income is outrageous. For someone who's heading a car-crash business he's fortunate to still be in the role. That his income remains so high is curious.

The gartside salary is curious but Eddie must be happy with him to keep paying him.

Anyway in short and bearing in mind that that site does post a lot of sensational shite, if Eddie has lost interest he needs to just f**k off for his own good and the good of the club.

[thebish]

I understand the sentiment - but am not really sure (short of selling the club - which reports seem to suggest he has been trying to do) what ED "f**king off" would actually mean in practice...

[BWFC_Insane]

I understand the sentiment - but am not really sure (short of selling the club - which reports seem to suggest he has been trying to do) ED "f**king off" would actually mean in practice...

Humorously I stumbled across a tweet or Facebook post, can't remember which a week or two back asking for Eddie Davies to resign.

I did fancy asking what he was meant to resign from but didn't...

[Andy Waller]

Does anyone have any idea of what amount is being paid off the debt per season?

[danardif1]

Does anyone have any idea of what amount is being paid off the debt per season?

Seemingly nothing on the debt to Moonshift, but the much smaller bank loan is due to be paid back next year.

[BWFC_Insane]

Does anyone have any idea of what amount is being paid off the debt per season?

Nothing, it is just growing....

There is a 5M bank overdraft that I believe we repay annually. Presumably that is used to manage cash flow through the season.

[Enoch]

Nothing, it is just growing...

Does that assume we continue to run at a loss? If so, who's financing us, RBS?

[BWFC_Insane]

Nothing, it is just growing...

Does that assume we continue to run at a loss? If so, who's financing us, RBS?

We made a loss on the last set of accounts. So no assumption.

[boltonboris]

I don't think we have any choice in relation to repaying the overdraft - Looks like Barclay's are pulling it out bit by bit

Bolton Wanderers Football & Athletic credit rating went from 19 down to 3 (out of a hundred) a couple of months back, but back up to 13 now, after a late repayment was settled (unsure of what)

Suggested credit limit for the company has been downgraded to "Cash only transactions" in the last quarter - I fvckin wish!!

All the guff on reports set aside, the below is simpleton terms (which I like)


Turnover £30,642,186
Pre Tax Profit -£9,136,152
Shareholder funds -£175,434,470
Employees 234

This company has been treated as a Large company in respect of the rating/limit generated.
The company's auditors have reported negative comments in their report.
This company's return on total assets employed ratio indicates a negative return on assets.
This company has made late payments on a medium percentage of invoices.
This company's ratio of total liabilities to total assets indicates that assets are funded through debt rather than equity.
This company's bank loans and overdrafts (less cash) account for a moderate percentage of short term liabilities.

[boltonboris]

Also worth noting, that the company turnover went up by £2.1m between 2013 and 2014, but the debt went up by £9.2m in the same period, despite the wage bill being lower...

Me neither

[Enoch]

Also worth noting, that the company turnover went up by £2.1m between 2013 and 2014, but the debt went up by £9.2m in the same period, despite the wage bill being lower...

Me neither

Not that I know f*ck all about such stuff, but I hoped that was some kind of clearing the decks exercise before Davies drew the line.

One can but hope, it's all we have for now.

Don't tell the clown, it kills him.

[Riviman]

http://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/article/late ... 33906.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One way to raise money I suppose.

[Enoch]

http://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/article/late ... 33906.aspx

One way to raise money I suppose.

Seems an unfair way of selling our unwanted players.

Fiver if you only want a couple, tenner for a job lot!

[jmjhb]

A free Liam Trotter with every DVD sold!

[jmjhb]

A free Liam Trotter with every DVD sold!

We could set up a stall where you throw beanbags or shoot at a target, and if you get a bullseye he gets dunked in a pool of water or custard or something. We'd bring in a fecking fortune!

As long as our strikers don't turn up, we'd be lucky to raise £1!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A free Liam Trotter with every DVD sold!

We could set up a stall where you throw beanbags or shoot at a target, and if you get a bullseye he gets dunked in a pool of water or custard or something. We'd bring in a fecking fortune!

As long as our strikers don't turn up, we'd be lucky to raise £1!

"Ooh, it's hit the top and bounced away!"
"Ooh, it's hit the top and bounced away!"
"Ooh, it's hit the top and bounced away!"
"Ooh, it's hit the top and bounced away!"

[chester white]

Someone on Wandererways, with a bit of time on their hands, has put a bit of an explanation of his reading of the account over the last few years in relation to the debt. It's in pretty simple terms for someone like me, who is quite clueless when it comes to companies and their finances, but as anything has caused a bit of a debate on there.

There's a link below to the thread and I've quoted him below...

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topi ... ?p=1540423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who's money are we using to pay these apparent 'millions' to Eddie Davies?

Do you not understand that if we pay Eddie millions in interest, then he just has to give it us back (and more) because we aren't self sustainable. Every year since 2008 the loan to ED has gone up, if he then actually collects the interest that he charged us then all he is doing is increasing the amount of cash that he has to loan us back.

For example:

Financial CASH shortfall for the year (not the reported loss) is say £10m
Our interest charge for the year on ED's loan is say £3m
We pay ED (Moonshift) that £3m interest then suddenly our cash shortfall is £13m

Guess who gives us that £13m as a loan???

Seen as there seems to be a lot of people willing to drag ED's name through the mud, when actually he has been nothing short of a saint for us (and because I had a long train journey this morning with access to all the accounts) I decided to have a look through them and finally get a solid answer on just how much cash ED (Moonshift) has put into BWFC.

ED took over in 2004 and we turned a profit 04/05/06. The 1st notable cash inflow from him is the sponsorship of the new training ground in 07, he paid us £3.5m which was not part of the loan, it was a cash sum that was not to be paid back.

08 - he gave us the 1st loan of £4.5m
09 - Loan increased to £23m however there were 'charges from Moonshift in relation to interest and arrangement fees' of £2m - This means that the actual cash increase from Moonshift, net of their charges to us, was £16.5m
10 - Loan increased to £85m!!! Same charges as above, this time of £4m - Net cash increase in loan was £58m (We paid off the majority of the bank loan and spent £16m on players)
11 - Loan increased to £99m. Charges from Moonshift of £5m - Net cash increase in loan of £9m
12 - Loan increased to £125m. Charges from Moonshift of £5.5m - Net cash increase in loan of £20.5m
13 - Loan increased to £151m. Charges from Moonshift of £7m - Net cash increase in loan of £19m
14 - Loan increased to £174m. Charges from Moonshift of £0.1m - Net cash increase in loan of £22.9m

That gives a total cash loan from Moonshift, taking off the 'charges' (which is where the whole interest payment bullshit lies) to us each year, of just over £150m. For that money he now has some assets such as the ground and the training ground, but a lot of it was spent paying for our 10 years of success. How anyone can question what he has done for this club is frightening, I know Gartside has his critics but to to bring ED into it just proves you're a mentalist IMO.

A few other things of note whilst I was going through them:
Net cash spend on players 2004-2014 = £60m
Net cash spend on players 2007-2014 = £54m
Net cash spend on players 2013-2014 = £13m (proves that we went shit or bust at bouncing straight back up)

Average group turnover 2004-2014 = £52.5m
Average group turnover 2004-2012 = £56m
Average group turnover 2013-2014 = £36.5m

Salaries as a % of group turnover from 04 to 09 was always high 40's to high 50's - 2010 then shot up to 79% and stayed up there to 2013 where it reached 93% but then dropped to 68% in 2014.

Average gate receipts 2004-2014 = £6.5m
Average gate receipts 2004-2012 = £7.2m
Average gate receipts 2013-2014 = £3.5m

Use that as you want, it kept me entertained for a couple of hours and hopefully shuts any nice people up that have managed to get it in their head that ED has miraculously made money through his 10 years owning Bolton Wanderers.

[Peter Thompson]

When you take into account the £30M, £40M, £50M etc a season that we received from numerous years in the premier league - IMO it just highlights the absolute mis management of the club over the past decade or so from top to bottom.

Vast amounts of money (transfer fee's & ridiculously high salaries) wasted on shockingly, average players.