Panic Fannies vs Men of Steel

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

FWIW I think we'll be bought at some point. But the question is more what will be left to buy at that stage and how much damage will there be to repair.

Given I think it highly unlikely we will find anyone prepared to buy us and bankroll us in the manner ED did, the future does not look great given we cannot operate as even a mid table championship club on our own turnover. Not even close at this moment in time. And as we sell more and more, the future turnover is only going one way.....

I think if you removed all of the silly wages then we probably could operate and break even in the Championship. We'll have to shed the current players and slowly rebuild to get there, but I believe it is possible.

[BWFC_Insane]

FWIW I think we'll be bought at some point. But the question is more what will be left to buy at that stage and how much damage will there be to repair.

Given I think it highly unlikely we will find anyone prepared to buy us and bankroll us in the manner ED did, the future does not look great given we cannot operate as even a mid table championship club on our own turnover. Not even close at this moment in time. And as we sell more and more, the future turnover is only going one way.....

I think if you removed all of the silly wages then we probably could operate and break even in the Championship. We'll have to shed the current players and slowly rebuild to get there, but I believe it is possible.

The guys who run Portsmouth (on the basis of keeping the business in the black) felt that it was going to be very hard for them to be a competitive championship club. And they have an average gate in league 2 of 16,000. Given our gates will be lower, I suspect it is a pipe dream to suggest that we could be a stable championship club without someome propping us up. The reality in the championship now is that the money being spent is going up and it is becoming premiership v2. This is what the Pompey guys said and you can easily see it. Clubs paying 1M quid for a loan player plus 30K a week wages.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

FWIW I think we'll be bought at some point. But the question is more what will be left to buy at that stage and how much damage will there be to repair.

Given I think it highly unlikely we will find anyone prepared to buy us and bankroll us in the manner ED did, the future does not look great given we cannot operate as even a mid table championship club on our own turnover. Not even close at this moment in time. And as we sell more and more, the future turnover is only going one way.....

I think if you removed all of the silly wages then we probably could operate and break even in the Championship. We'll have to shed the current players and slowly rebuild to get there, but I believe it is possible.

The guys who run Portsmouth (on the basis of keeping the business in the black) felt that it was going to be very hard for them to be a competitive championship club. And they have an average gate in league 2 of 16,000. Given our gates will be lower, I suspect it is a pipe dream to suggest that we could be a stable championship club without someome propping us up. The reality in the championship now is that the money being spent is going up and it is becoming premiership v2. This is what the Pompey guys said and you can easily see it. Clubs paying 1M quid for a loan player plus 30K a week wages.

Maybe so, but it's about spending money smartly. If you do spend your money smartly then you can compete even if it's not easy.

[BWFC_Insane]

FWIW I think we'll be bought at some point. But the question is more what will be left to buy at that stage and how much damage will there be to repair.

Given I think it highly unlikely we will find anyone prepared to buy us and bankroll us in the manner ED did, the future does not look great given we cannot operate as even a mid table championship club on our own turnover. Not even close at this moment in time. And as we sell more and more, the future turnover is only going one way.....

I think if you removed all of the silly wages then we probably could operate and break even in the Championship. We'll have to shed the current players and slowly rebuild to get there, but I believe it is possible.

The guys who run Portsmouth (on the basis of keeping the business in the black) felt that it was going to be very hard for them to be a competitive championship club. And they have an average gate in league 2 of 16,000. Given our gates will be lower, I suspect it is a pipe dream to suggest that we could be a stable championship club without someome propping us up. The reality in the championship now is that the money being spent is going up and it is becoming premiership v2. This is what the Pompey guys said and you can easily see it. Clubs paying 1M quid for a loan player plus 30K a week wages.

Maybe so, but it's about spending money smartly. If you do spend your money smartly then you can compete even if it's not easy.

Aye but then any club can say and strive for that. Reality is, our turnover without Eddie and without parachute payments and some extras we are losing probably has us a league one club.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Aye but then any club can say and strive for that. Reality is, our turnover without Eddie and without parachute payments and some extras we are losing probably has us a league one club.

Well lets not try then, after all, unless we can guarantee success there is no point.

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye but then any club can say and strive for that. Reality is, our turnover without Eddie and without parachute payments and some extras we are losing probably has us a league one club.

Well lets not try then, after all, unless we can guarantee success there is no point.

Well the point is that we can try, but championship would be overachieving. And underachieving would be league 2. The reality is that unless someone props us up to some extent the future is pretty bleak. We need some external support, that is where the trying must be, finding it.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Aye but then any club can say and strive for that. Reality is, our turnover without Eddie and without parachute payments and some extras we are losing probably has us a league one club.

Well lets not try then, after all, unless we can guarantee success there is no point.

Well the point is that we can try, but championship would be overachieving. And underachieving would be league 2. The reality is that unless someone props us up to some extent the future is pretty bleak. We need some external support, that is where the trying must be, finding it.

So you've decided definitively our position then. On the basis of what exactly?

[Harry Genshaw]

I don't get this argument Insane one. In terms of support there are say 35 clubs who can regularly attract bigger crowds than us. There are 44 places in the top two divisions. Run properly there's no reason why we couldn't compete in the championship.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't get this argument Insane one. In terms of support there are say 35 clubs who can regularly attract bigger crowds than us. There are 44 places in the top two divisions. Run properly there's no reason why we couldn't compete in the championship.

But some of those clubs will be run by folk putting additional money in. Say like Bournemouth.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Eddie has been putting additional money in AND we had parachute payments. Fat lot of good it did us.

[BWFC_Insane]

Eddie has been putting additional money in AND we had parachute payments. Fat lot of good it did us.

The problem is the fact it stopped. The romantic notion of running the club within its means will in my view soon see dissent and unhappiness in the fanbase and people getting fed up.

I don't think Bolton fans are prepared for that reality fully. The novelty factor might be interesting initially but will soon wear off.

Wonder what our wage bill would be to run break even next season with no parachute, reduced crowds and no external or internal investment? I reckon it could frighten a fair few.

[Dr.Karl]

I believe a club run well the size of ours, with good scouting and making the most of our resources could compete in the premierleague. It requires a clear vision and a club philosophy. It's not just Bolton that are run badly, that are throwing good money after bad. When you're competing against those clubs, it doesn't require much to gain an edge on a smaller budget.

Essentially Sam was doing this, but instead of following on with a similar philosophy, hiring a similar manager we went for Sammy fecking Lee. We almost dismantled a decade's work in a few short months. It all went downhill from there. I hope lessons will be learned when we hopefully get new owners.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

It wasn't doing us any good before he stopped.

You can't say it's all about something then say there is one exception when it suits your point of view. The money helps hugely...usually. But there are clubs that manage without it. Usually they have a good chairman, manager and a plan. I'm not sure we've had any of those for quite some time.

[BWFC_Insane]

I believe a club run well the size of ours, with good scouting and making the most of our resources could compete in the premierleague. It requires a clear vision and a club philosophy. It's not just Bolton that are run badly, that are throwing good money after bad. When you're competing against those clubs, it doesn't require much to gain an edge on a smaller budget.

Essentially Sam was doing this, but instead of following on with a similar philosophy, hiring a similar manager we went for Sammy fecking Lee. We almost dismantled a decade's work in a few short months. It all went downhill from there. I hope lessons will be learned when we hopefully get new owners.

This is exactly what I mean. Expectations are way off in our fanbase.

Portsmouth directors hope they can reach the championship under this model. But they don't expect to be competitive in the championship as things stand. And they get 16,000 fans in league 2 and presumably have a higher ticket price potential down there than we do.

[Worthy4England]

Guerilla Fag Packet Maths

Our football turn-over was £30.6m (last Accounts) - £22m of that came from "Broadcasting Revenue"....FFP has been trying to cap salaries @ no more than 60%? Championship Clubs without parachute payments I believe get £2.3m basic "solidarity payment", which would be a bit of a cut from £22m...That would leave our revenue at £10m ish? so you'd expect no more than £6m on salaries....I thought I read somewhere from the Supporters Trust meeting that we'd managed to get down as far as £27m...

[BWFC_Insane]

It wasn't doing us any good before he stopped.

You can't say it's all about something then say there is one exception when it suits your point of view. The money helps hugely...usually. But there are clubs that manage without it. Usually they have a good chairman, manager and a plan. I'm not sure we've had any of those for quite some time.

It didn't work? 11 years in the top flight. If Eddie had carried on letting the club buy the Anelka's etc we may have come down but would have gone back up. But he stopped the spending. It did work, it isn't a guarantee but over a long period I'd bet there is a relatively strong correlation between wage bills and league position.

I agree that there is always a chance to over perform. But football is becoming harder and harder to compete without the money being available. There will always be the odd exception but could wait decades for that to be us.

[BWFC_Insane]

Guerilla Fag Packet Maths

Our football turn-over was £30.6m (last Accounts) - £22m of that came from "Broadcasting Revenue"....FFP has been trying to cap salaries @ no more than 60%? Championship Clubs without parachute payments I believe get £2.3m basic "solidarity payment", which would be a bit of a cut from £22m...That would leave our revenue at £10m ish? so you'd expect no more than £6m on salaries....I thought I read somewhere from the Supporters Trust meeting that we'd managed to get down as far as £27m...

My back of a fag packet calculations put our turnover minus the parachutes and with some reduction in gate revenue at about £7M? Sound about right?

Also the loss of offices recently reportedly knocks off £600K so the figure may be reducing all the time.

Edit: current playing staff wages are 16M.

[thebish]

Guerilla Fag Packet Maths

Our football turn-over was £30.6m (last Accounts) - £22m of that came from "Broadcasting Revenue"....FFP has been trying to cap salaries @ no more than 60%? Championship Clubs without parachute payments I believe get £2.3m basic "solidarity payment", which would be a bit of a cut from £22m...That would leave our revenue at £10m ish? so you'd expect no more than £6m on salaries....I thought I read somewhere from the Supporters Trust meeting that we'd managed to get down as far as £27m...

My back of a fag packet calculations put our turnover minus the parachutes and with some reduction in gate revenue at about £7M? Sound about right?

Also the loss of offices recently reportedly knocks off £600K so the figure may be reducing all the time.

yeah - but I don't believe that you smoke... you haven't GOT a fag packet.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Guerilla Fag Packet Maths

Our football turn-over was £30.6m (last Accounts) - £22m of that came from "Broadcasting Revenue"....FFP has been trying to cap salaries @ no more than 60%? Championship Clubs without parachute payments I believe get £2.3m basic "solidarity payment", which would be a bit of a cut from £22m...That would leave our revenue at £10m ish? so you'd expect no more than £6m on salaries....I thought I read somewhere from the Supporters Trust meeting that we'd managed to get down as far as £27m...

Iles is quoted in this month's FFT saying since relegation we've cut wages from £35m to £16m.

EDIT: ah, as BWFCi's just posted.

[Dr.Karl]

I believe a club run well the size of ours, with good scouting and making the most of our resources could compete in the premierleague. It requires a clear vision and a club philosophy. It's not just Bolton that are run badly, that are throwing good money after bad. When you're competing against those clubs, it doesn't require much to gain an edge on a smaller budget.

Essentially Sam was doing this, but instead of following on with a similar philosophy, hiring a similar manager we went for Sammy fecking Lee. We almost dismantled a decade's work in a few short months. It all went downhill from there. I hope lessons will be learned when we hopefully get new owners.

This is exactly what I mean. Expectations are way off in our fanbase.

Portsmouth directors hope they can reach the championship under this model. But they don't expect to be competitive in the championship as things stand. And they get 16,000 fans in league 2 and presumably have a higher ticket price potential down there than we do.

Why limit yourself? I'm not saying it's easy. But it's possible. It may take another 20 years, but as a club, we should have that aim imv. It's not that I'm expecting it. It's what every well run club of our size should be aiming for. We can't throw money around, so we have to be smarter than the rest. What's the point of striving to achieve otherwise?