Freedman out!

[LeverEnd]

Ask Burnley fans now if Dyche is irrelevant even though they have little money?

[BWFC_Insane]

I read somewhere today that two youths were arguing about Kant in a shop queue, which then broke down into fisticuffs, and finally one shot the other in the head. Difficult as it is to believe, it makes more sense than at least 50% of what's been put on here recently. I fear some of you are over analysing it all.
It's a business: it requires reinvestment, cut off the funds and you're in another market environment entirely.

Aye if Eddie has cut the strings then the manager is irrelevant. We are going to gradually slip away. Clubs don't fund themselves anymore, even in the top flight. The short term arguments about should we be better now, are fine. But the main issue is that to replicate the past 15 years in the modern game, requires investment. If we haven't got that investment over a sustained period we are going to continue to struggle.

Stop it The manager is quite clearly relevant as he is a decision maker at the club. Decisions have consequences, as does funding etc etc.

Sorry as ever what I meant hasn't really translated into what I wrote.

I just mean that if we aren't being funded, over a long period we can keep changing a manager, but it is unlikely to make a big difference.

People look at Sam Allardyce coming in, but the financial picture in football has changed since then IMO.

He took West Ham up more recently by spending vast amounts. And then only via the play offs.

[jonnycooper]

This site is slowly?? Turning into one big bitchfest...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I read somewhere today that two youths were arguing about Kant in a shop queue, which then broke down into fisticuffs, and finally one shot the other in the head. Difficult as it is to believe, it makes more sense than at least 50% of what's been put on here recently. I fear some of you are over analysing it all.
It's a business: it requires reinvestment, cut off the funds and you're in another market environment entirely.

Aye if Eddie has cut the strings then the manager is irrelevant. We are going to gradually slip away. Clubs don't fund themselves anymore, even in the top flight. The short term arguments about should we be better now, are fine. But the main issue is that to replicate the past 15 years in the modern game, requires investment. If we haven't got that investment over a sustained period we are going to continue to struggle.

Stop it The manager is quite clearly relevant as he is a decision maker at the club. Decisions have consequences, as does funding etc etc.

Sorry as ever what I meant hasn't really translated into what I wrote.

I just mean that if we aren't being funded, over a long period we can keep changing a manager, but it is unlikely to make a big difference.

People look at Sam Allardyce coming in, but the financial picture in football has changed since then IMO.

He took West Ham up more recently by spending vast amounts. And then only via the play offs.

Better

I agree that constantly changing manager is a very bad way to go. We're in danger of going there...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

This site is slowly?? Turning into one big bitchfest...

No more than it has ever been and certainly less of it than many other sites.

[Wandering Willy]

This site is slowly?? Turning into one big bitchfest...

Piss off.

[Worthy4England]

I read somewhere today that two youths were arguing about Kant in a shop queue, which then broke down into fisticuffs, and finally one shot the other in the head. Difficult as it is to believe, it makes more sense than at least 50% of what's been put on here recently. I fear some of you are over analysing it all.
It's a business: it requires reinvestment, cut off the funds and you're in another market environment entirely.

Aye if Eddie has cut the strings then the manager is irrelevant. We are going to gradually slip away. Clubs don't fund themselves anymore, even in the top flight. The short term arguments about should we be better now, are fine. But the main issue is that to replicate the past 15 years in the modern game, requires investment. If we haven't got that investment over a sustained period we are going to continue to struggle.

Stop it The manager is quite clearly relevant as he is a decision maker at the club. Decisions have consequences, as does funding etc etc.

Sorry as ever what I meant hasn't really translated into what I wrote.

I just mean that if we aren't being funded, over a long period we can keep changing a manager, but it is unlikely to make a big difference.

People look at Sam Allardyce coming in, but the financial picture in football has changed since then IMO.

He took West Ham up more recently by spending vast amounts. And then only via the play offs.

You don't half talk some tosh.

Matthew Taylor £2.2m, Nicky Maynard £1.65m, Ravel Morrison £650k - less than N'gog - oh and he shunted Parker out for £5m - that's net zero.

He got some others in on frees and non-disclosed. So Carew, Bouba Diop, Jussi, Diame all free, Baldock, Vaz Te, Demel and Henderson all "signed".

On the other side, he shunted 13 players out. Including some that will have been "high" wage earners.

[Harry Genshaw]

When we appointed him, I was (& in a little way still am) prepared to believe he had some real and hidden abilities in getting the best out of players and getting his sides to play in a certain way. A lot of what he said in interviews last year seemed to confirm my view.

The trouble is I keep going back to late last season when Dougie commented on our good run and said it wasn't down to luck, but due to the double training sessions on Xmas day when other clubs players were at the dining table. I believed that and expected after a pre season where he could get the players in he felt we needed, and continue to work them hard in training, we'd hit the ground running.

The fact we haven't and now seem to be scrabbling round looking for additional players and it's hardly surprising my faith in Dougie is fading fast. Personally, I'd give him another 6 games

[BWFC_Insane]

I read somewhere today that two youths were arguing about Kant in a shop queue, which then broke down into fisticuffs, and finally one shot the other in the head. Difficult as it is to believe, it makes more sense than at least 50% of what's been put on here recently. I fear some of you are over analysing it all.
It's a business: it requires reinvestment, cut off the funds and you're in another market environment entirely.

Aye if Eddie has cut the strings then the manager is irrelevant. We are going to gradually slip away. Clubs don't fund themselves anymore, even in the top flight. The short term arguments about should we be better now, are fine. But the main issue is that to replicate the past 15 years in the modern game, requires investment. If we haven't got that investment over a sustained period we are going to continue to struggle.

Stop it The manager is quite clearly relevant as he is a decision maker at the club. Decisions have consequences, as does funding etc etc.

Sorry as ever what I meant hasn't really translated into what I wrote.

I just mean that if we aren't being funded, over a long period we can keep changing a manager, but it is unlikely to make a big difference.

People look at Sam Allardyce coming in, but the financial picture in football has changed since then IMO.

He took West Ham up more recently by spending vast amounts. And then only via the play offs.

You don't half talk some tosh.

Matthew Taylor £2.2m, Nicky Maynard £1.65m, Ravel Morrison £650k - less than N'gog - oh and he shunted Parker out for £5m - that's net zero.

He got some others in on frees and non-disclosed. So Carew, Bouba Diop, Jussi, Diame all free, Baldock, Vaz Te, Demel and Henderson all "signed".

On the other side, he shunted 13 players out. Including some that will have been "high" wage earners.

Paid £4M for Nolan. Sure players left but that is an enviable position for a championship club.

Signing players from premiership clubs for several millions of pounds is well, hefty spending for this division.

Plus I've seen Maynard quoted at over £2M and Baldock cost £1M.

[Worthy4England]

Paid £4M for Nolan. Sure players left but that is an enviable position for a championship club.

Signing players from premiership clubs for several millions of pounds is well, hefty spending for this division.

Guess the Nolan bit was just before July - and £3m according to Soccerbase - either way that's about £7-8m out, offset by £5m in. Also got Faye on a free too, a couple of days before Nolan.

Net £2m is not hefty spending. It's probably about what we spent this year.

In fairness, we haven't got any fecker worth £5m to create any extra head room, that isn't injured (and I'm only thinking of maybe Mavies if anyone's stupid enough, such as Swansea.)

I do think, we could probably flog N'gog, Chungy, Mavies and raise that sort of cash, should the Manager wish to do so.

[Tombwfc]

I read somewhere today that two youths were arguing about Kant in a shop queue, which then broke down into fisticuffs, and finally one shot the other in the head. Difficult as it is to believe, it makes more sense than at least 50% of what's been put on here recently. I fear some of you are over analysing it all.
It's a business: it requires reinvestment, cut off the funds and you're in another market environment entirely.

Aye if Eddie has cut the strings then the manager is irrelevant. We are going to gradually slip away. Clubs don't fund themselves anymore, even in the top flight. The short term arguments about should we be better now, are fine. But the main issue is that to replicate the past 15 years in the modern game, requires investment. If we haven't got that investment over a sustained period we are going to continue to struggle.

Stop it The manager is quite clearly relevant as he is a decision maker at the club. Decisions have consequences, as does funding etc etc.

Sorry as ever what I meant hasn't really translated into what I wrote.

I just mean that if we aren't being funded, over a long period we can keep changing a manager, but it is unlikely to make a big difference.

People look at Sam Allardyce coming in, but the financial picture in football has changed since then IMO.

He took West Ham up more recently by spending vast amounts. And then only via the play offs.

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

[SmokinFrazier]

You don't need to spend to get promoted, though you do need a combination of quality and right management. If you've already got the quality, there is no need to spend big money to go up. Look at Palace last year. They didn't spend because they didn't need to. On the other hand, look at Leicester to see how spending may not bring success.

I think our transfer spending can be misleading though. When signing a player on a free, a club will always pay them too much on wages in order to lure them in, so even though we didn't buy Moritz, Tierney and Baptiste, their wages will be very significant and that obviously affects the transfer budgets. We may not have bought these players but their signing fees and wages will be a lot higher than if we had bought them.

[BWFC_Insane]

Paid £4M for Nolan. Sure players left but that is an enviable position for a championship club.

Signing players from premiership clubs for several millions of pounds is well, hefty spending for this division.

Guess the Nolan bit was just before July - and £3m according to Soccerbase - either way that's about £7-8m out, offset by £5m in. Also got Faye on a free too, a couple of days before Nolan.

Net £2m is not hefty spending. It's probably about what we spent this year.

In fairness, we haven't got any fecker worth £5m to create any extra head room, that isn't injured (and I'm only thinking of maybe Mavies if anyone's stupid enough, such as Swansea.)

I do think, we could probably flog N'gog, Chungy, Mavies and raise that sort of cash, should the Manager wish to do so.

Yeah I mean being able to sell Parker for 5M helps of course.

But should we sell a couple there is no chance we'd have been buying players from premiership clubs for millions and paying their wages. We all know that.

What Sam did there is Very different to what any manager would be asked to do here, if recent spending continues.

[Worthy4England]

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

Indeed. We've had enough to spend in the last two summer windows.

[BWFC_Insane]

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

Indeed. We've had enough to spend in the last two summer windows.

It's more a trend. We are spending less, investing less, wage bill is reducing. Over time if this continues what is the future?

If getting a new manager in is simply the answer to get this lot promoted then that will be great. I will be delighted should that happen. When you go down you need a lift, need to shake up the squad considerably. We've had to do that over a longer period and we are possibly paying the price for that now.

I guess we won't know for sure till we see what a Pulis or whoever would want to do should they ever be appointed.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

Paid £4M for Nolan. Sure players left but that is an enviable position for a championship club.

Signing players from premiership clubs for several millions of pounds is well, hefty spending for this division.

Guess the Nolan bit was just before July - and £3m according to Soccerbase - either way that's about £7-8m out, offset by £5m in. Also got Faye on a free too, a couple of days before Nolan.

Net £2m is not hefty spending. It's probably about what we spent this year.

In fairness, we haven't got any fecker worth £5m to create any extra head room, that isn't injured (and I'm only thinking of maybe Mavies if anyone's stupid enough, such as Swansea.)
I do think, we could probably flog N'gog, Chungy, Mavies and raise that sort of cash, should the Manager wish to do so.

Not sure we'd get that much for anyone currently. CYL hasnt been the player he was ,Ngog has proved that even at a lower level he cant score goals and Mavis well tends to get injured quite often.No pot of gold to reinvest there. I imagine a big part of the problem is that we cant recoup anything like what we paid for most or all of the squad. Theyre hardly putting themselves in the shop window as it is!

There are some interesting ideas knocking about here. Folk suggesting managers currently stumbling on a purple patch(Ince,Dyche etc) seem to forget that coyle and DF and infact plenty others have these spells. It doesnt mean theyre going to continue it or repeat it here.likewise the Pulis fans,you know I think he's a good pragmatic manager in the allardyce mould but without as much nouse. Would he transform what we have? Seems unlikely to me without the freedom to change a fair amount of personel and investment.

It is worth noting our first 4 games were against teams in the top 7 and the next more damaging 4 aghaint mid table sides. The next six include three of the weaker teams in the division. Things should start to look better and if they dont then yes I can see it being reasonable to push the panic button although quite where we go then god knows.

Dont really get why people are moaning about DF saying we need some loan players in . Im pretty sure he was saying we were light especially at CH at the start of the season and didnt he want5 that mythical goalscorer too in the summer. He knows what the team needs but it doesnt mean the funds are there or the players available. None of us really know that!

He does need to make some decent loan signings now,looks pretty make or break really as do the next six games.

As a footnote it's lovely to think we can become a great club finding and developing talent, everyone knows thats the future including the other 20 or so clubs our size. It'll still come back to investment to attract and find that talent and develop it effectively. I imagine every manager in the championship had it in his letter of application.

[thebish]

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

Indeed. We've had enough to spend in the last two summer windows.

It's more a trend. We are spending less, investing less, wage bill is reducing. Over time if this continues what is the future?

If getting a new manager in is simply the answer to get this lot promoted then that will be great. I will be delighted should that happen. When you go down you need a lift, need to shake up the squad considerably. We've had to do that over a longer period and we are possibly paying the price for that now.

I guess we won't know for sure till we see what a Pulis or whoever would want to do should they ever be appointed.

we don't need to wait for a pulis - we can just see how dougie does, surely?

[Worthy4England]

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

Indeed. We've had enough to spend in the last two summer windows.

It's more a trend. We are spending less, investing less, wage bill is reducing. Over time if this continues what is the future?

If getting a new manager in is simply the answer to get this lot promoted then that will be great. I will be delighted should that happen. When you go down you need a lift, need to shake up the squad considerably. We've had to do that over a longer period and we are possibly paying the price for that now.

I guess we won't know for sure till we see what a Pulis or whoever would want to do should they ever be appointed.

The trend is, we're spending nearer to what Championship clubs spend, rather than what Premiership Clubs spend. Blackpool's wage bill when they came up a couple of years back was something like £7m if I recall. The future is, we probably need to get it right, this season, next at the latest, otherwise we're waiting for an Allardyce or a Rioch etc. who (initially) get lucky. If they don't look like getting lucky, bin 'em off and try for someone who might get lucky.

[Il Pirate]

Sack him now. Don't drag it out until we're cut tottaly adrift. We've been here before. People couldn't believe we would be relegated from the prem. oops, we were. Now here we go again. All this sh*t about 'we can't afford to sack him'!? We can't afford not to. Get Gary Neville and OGS in now. We might just save our season/future.

[norm the jedi]

That would only make any kind of sense if West Ham were beaten to automatic promotion by two sides that had spent even more than them. Instead, one of those sides had just come up from League One and both combined spent less than we did this summer.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If spending power was the be all and end all we would not have finished 6th last season and we certainly wouldn't be 24th now.

Not that there is that much of a disparity between us an anyone anyway, as I'm now bored of pointing out. It used to be the case under Allardyce that we would regularly finish above teams that had spent tens of millions more than us on players. Now all of a sudden Forest/QPR have spent a couple of million more than us and some people want to make out like we're Accrington Stanley taking on PSG.

Indeed. We've had enough to spend in the last two summer windows.

But not enough to get what everyone with eyes could see we needed..
apropo of not much I never mentioned the transfer budget.. My point was the ongoing wages bill .. Across Europe well paid players are generally better than poorly paid ones..
That's not to say a high wage bill is an automatic key to success, paying Zat Knight 200k a week won't make him better but replacing him with a centre half worth those wages would like as not have a positive effect.
My point was that reducing the spend over time will reduce the quality of the team, Forest and QPR are fair comparisons historically as are Sheffields United and Wednesday, Coventry City, Swindon, Norwich, Southampton - They all fell down the leagues and have or are fighting or trying to fight their way back. Most of the more successful ones now are under new ownership in receipt of significant investment I'd imagine.. That's the way back.. cutting our cloth will see us back where economics dictate.. small town in Blackburn .. we will only punch above our weight if the gloves are stuffed with £50 notes...
Don't make me happy but me not being happy don't change the fact of it..