42 Million

[thebish]

Really? I think his life threatening injury had a little bit to play in him seemingly going backwards. I would say this season though two out three girls conceded have been from Steiner going missing or Knight rather than directly down to Chaill. Just my opinion like, not meaning to pick a fight or owt Caps.

But consensus is that Coyle gets more out of his players than Megson did

I read all the time how Knight has improved

Yet plenty reckon Cahills not playing so well, and he really should be over his illness

Can't have it all ways...though some will want to try

who reckons Cahill's not playing so well? where?

[CAPSLOCK]

Go do some spying

[thebish]

Go do some spying

it's all hush-hush - I can't really find any traces... maybe you're mixing with the wrong sort?

I haven't seen anyone on this forum criticising Cahill's recent form...

[TKIZ!]

Really? I think his life threatening injury had a little bit to play in him seemingly going backwards. I would say this season though two out three girls conceded have been from Steiner going missing or Knight rather than directly down to Chaill. Just my opinion like, not meaning to pick a fight or owt Caps.

But consensus is that Coyle gets more out of his players than Megson did

I read all the time how Knight has improved

Yet plenty reckon Cahills not playing so well, and he really should be over his illness

Can't have it all ways...though some will want to try

Personally I wouldn't claim that Cahill has gone backwards, although I do think Knight has improved under OC. You are right some people will try and claim otherwise

[thebish]

Really? I think his life threatening injury had a little bit to play in him seemingly going backwards. I would say this season though two out three girls conceded have been from Steiner going missing or Knight rather than directly down to Chaill. Just my opinion like, not meaning to pick a fight or owt Caps.

But consensus is that Coyle gets more out of his players than Megson did

I read all the time how Knight has improved

Yet plenty reckon Cahills not playing so well, and he really should be over his illness

Can't have it all ways...though some will want to try

Personally I wouldn't claim that Cahill has gone backwards, although I do think Knight has improved under OC. You are right some people will try and claim otherwise

who?

who are CAPS's "plenty" and TKIZ's "some people"??

[H. Pedersen]

So Allardyce was shit too then? Okocha and Djorkaeff being luck based on the law of averages to cancel out Ibrahim Ba, Oscar Perez, Djibril Diawara, Ndiwa Lord Kangana, Chris Armstrong, David Holdsworth and Mario Jardel?

This just isn't comparable. Allardyce signed a number of bad players but since they were on short contracts and free transfers we were rid of them fairly quickly. When he did spend money - Anelka and Diouf are the only big fees I remember - he did well. Megson was working with a lot more money, and if you're splashing out millions on nearly every transfer, some of them will come off.

[Raven]

Really? I think his life threatening injury had a little bit to play in him seemingly going backwards. I would say this season though two out three girls conceded have been from Steiner going missing or Knight rather than directly down to Chaill. Just my opinion like, not meaning to pick a fight or owt Caps.

But consensus is that Coyle gets more out of his players than Megson did

I read all the time how Knight has improved

Yet plenty reckon Cahills not playing so well, and he really should be over his illness

Can't have it all ways...though some will want to try

Thats not difficult (bit in bold in case some wondered)

[bw@bw]

So Allardyce was shit too then? Okocha and Djorkaeff being luck based on the law of averages to cancel out Ibrahim Ba, Oscar Perez, Djibril Diawara, Ndiwa Lord Kangana, Chris Armstrong, David Holdsworth and Mario Jardel?

This just isn't comparable. Allardyce signed a number of bad players but since they were on short contracts and free transfers we were rid of them fairly quickly. When he did spend money - Anelka and Diouf are the only big fees I remember - he did well. Megson was working with a lot more money, and if you're splashing out millions on nearly every transfer, some of them will come off.

No - Allardyce went shopping for bargains - seconds/ slightly soiled - or whatever they say on the market these days

He acquired £100m worth of players for about £10m (based on their previous traded prices).
In some cases they were absolute bargains - in some we learned why they had been sold off cheap.

GM appears to have spent £42m - and maybe, just maybe has got his £42m worth.

[Tombwfc]

So Allardyce was shit too then? Okocha and Djorkaeff being luck based on the law of averages to cancel out Ibrahim Ba, Oscar Perez, Djibril Diawara, Ndiwa Lord Kangana, Chris Armstrong, David Holdsworth and Mario Jardel?

This just isn't comparable. Allardyce signed a number of bad players but since they were on short contracts and free transfers we were rid of them fairly quickly. When he did spend money - Anelka and Diouf are the only big fees I remember - he did well. Megson was working with a lot more money, and if you're splashing out millions on nearly every transfer, some of them will come off.

None of that was what he said.

In any event, does that mean that Steinsson, Cohen, Taylor, Cahill, Muamba, Knight, Robinson, Chung Yong Lee and Sam Ricketts were down to good fortune?

The only players we spent money on who failed were Shittu and Elmander. The latter still may prove himself as a good player under better management.

Of the various insults to level at Megson, most of them have some validity. The idea that he wasn't good at picking players is not one of them.

[Lord Kangana]

Cohen was about the right price for what he is. I think most people are making the point that at the very least Megson paid the top-end of going rate for most of those he signed. You know, like £1.5m for a 30 year old full back (when one most definitely was not required) may be deemed to be profligate with ones coin. Especially when put alongside the 30-somethings previously and subsequently purchased on frees. Its not a fait accompli to say that "Megson could pick a player".

Well yes, but with £42m available, I bet most of us could also "pick a player".

[truewhite15]

Cohen was about the right price for what he is. I think most people are making the point that at the very least Megson paid the top-end of going rate for most of those he signed. You know, like £1.5m for a 30 year old full back (when one most definitely was not required) may be deemed to be profligate with ones coin. Especially when put alongside the 30-somethings previously and subsequently purchased on frees. Its not a fait accompli to say that "Megson could pick a player".

Well yes, but with £42m available, I bet most of us could also "pick a player".

Thanks Kangana, I had no idea how I was gonna dig myself out of that whole - but yes, read above for what I meant.

[CAPSLOCK]

You know, like £1.5m for a 30 year old full back (when one most definitely was not required)

I thought you were referring to Robinson, but then I realised you couldn't be

[bobo the clown]

I thought the bold text was a giveaway

re Muamba - he was very good under Megson...he's improved under Coyle, but I'd expect that of a young kid

Conversely, it could be argued Cahill has gone backwards

Really? I think his life threatening injury had a little bit to play in him seemingly going backwards. I would say this season though two out three girls conceded have been from Steiner going missing or Knight rather than directly down to Chaill. Just my opinion like, not meaning to pick a fight or owt Caps.

girls????

Oh, TKIZ!, & so soon after you've stopped having to sign the register !!

[Tombwfc]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

People have picked worse players when given a shit load of money to spend...

David Rozenhal - £2.9mil
Joey Barton - £5.8mil
Abdolaye Faye - £2mil
Jose Enrique - £6.5mil
Habib Beye - £2mil
Alan Smith - £6mil

25.2mil

[H. Pedersen]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

In the excellent book Why England Lose, they recount a story from Sven about his efforts to sign Vieri for Lazio, after being quoted 50 billion lire:

(Lazio chairman Sergio) Cragnotti: "That's a lot of money."
Eriksson: "I know."

Atletico said they might accept some Lazio players in part-payment for Vieri.

Cragnotti: "Can we do that?"
Eriksson: "No, we can't give away these players."
Cragnotti: "What shall we do then?"
Eriksson: "Buy him."
Cragnotti: "OK."

Eriksson recalled in Zurich: "He didn't even try to pay 49. He just paid 50."

This is pretty much how I imagine the Danny Shittu/Zat Knight/Johan Elmander/Fabrice Muamba discussions went. I mean if you recall the Allardyce negotiations would go on for absolute AGES before we finally got our man, if we did at all. Then all of a sudden we were getting £5 million+ players on short notice. Don't know what changed.

[Sir Nut]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

People have picked worse players when given a shit load of money to spend...

David Rozenhal - £2.9mil
Joey Barton - £5.8mil
Abdolaye Faye - £2mil
Jose Enrique - £6.5mil
Habib Beye - £2mil
Alan Smith - £6mil

25.2mil

Exactly, this proved he had no vision, still went for the same mould of player, (down on his career) and a shoulder to cry on (using that as motivating tool). Watch him leave Blackburn in the shit like he did with us in around 4 years time.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

People have picked worse players when given a shit load of money to spend...

David Rozenhal - £2.9mil
Joey Barton - £5.8mil
Abdolaye Faye - £2mil
Jose Enrique - £6.5mil
Habib Beye - £2mil
Alan Smith - £6mil

25.2mil

Exactly, this proved he had no vision, still went for the same mould of player, (down on his career) and a shoulder to cry on (using that as motivating tool). Watch him leave Blackburn in the shit like he did with us in around 4 years time.

Sir Nut, we haven't met yet, but I've been reading your posts from afar for a few weeks now, and I'd just like you to know that I think you're full of shit.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

In the excellent book Why England Lose, they recount a story from Sven about his efforts to sign Vieri for Lazio, after being quoted 50 billion lire:

(Lazio chairman Sergio) Cragnotti: "That's a lot of money."
Eriksson: "I know."

Atletico said they might accept some Lazio players in part-payment for Vieri.

Cragnotti: "Can we do that?"
Eriksson: "No, we can't give away these players."
Cragnotti: "What shall we do then?"
Eriksson: "Buy him."
Cragnotti: "OK."

Eriksson recalled in Zurich: "He didn't even try to pay 49. He just paid 50."

This is pretty much how I imagine the Danny Shittu/Zat Knight/Johan Elmander/Fabrice Muamba discussions went. I mean if you recall the Allardyce negotiations would go on for absolute AGES before we finally got our man, if we did at all. Then all of a sudden we were getting £5 million+ players on short notice. Don't know what changed.

Sorry HP but you haven't got the first clue what you're talking about.

The reason deals took so long to materialise with Allardyce was that after all the negotiations and agreements on fees and salaries the players then had to undergo a week of "tests" to see if they were up to scratch physically and mentally for the premiership. He still does the same at Blackburn.

The ways transfers work at Bolton is the manager is given a budget. He identifies the players he wants and ascertains availability and approximate cost (fees + wages) from agents working for players and clubs. Then he goes to the chairman and gives him the list and he works on the deals as instructed by the manager, sometimes with the manager.

Lets take Cohen as an example. Megson says "we can have him for 10p so I'm told by his agent". Gartside rings up the club to make an offer and is quoted "£2M". He then goes back to Megson and asks "should we pay that?" Megson says no he's not worth that and Phil goes back and negotiates and so on and so on.

Thats how it works. Transfers take a long time unless you throw money at them.

We chased Knight all summer and the fee does not appear unreasonable to me. Nor the Robinson fee. In fact I can't think we massively overpaid for anyone Megson bought. Elmander was valued at 15M in the January window so you could say even with him we got him half price. Megson went for generally proven or semi proven early to mid twenties players or slightly older but still in their mid to late twenties premiership players. Those players have a premimum attached. Coyle may well sign similar players when the squad thins out a bit, though he seems to prefer to invest in up and coming younger players.

[CAPSLOCK]

Sorry HP but you haven't got the first clue what you're talking about.

That would've done

[Lofthouse Lower]

I'd agree that we overpaid with a lot of those players (although you picked an odd two to use as examples, Robinson has been one of the first names on the team-sheet and Cohen's goals have paid back the 37k fee over and over again). However, it is usually not the managers job to negotiate the fee (certainly not exclusively anyway) and when all else is said and done, you've still got to pick the players.

In the excellent book Why England Lose, they recount a story from Sven about his efforts to sign Vieri for Lazio, after being quoted 50 billion lire:

(Lazio chairman Sergio) Cragnotti: "That's a lot of money."
Eriksson: "I know."

Atletico said they might accept some Lazio players in part-payment for Vieri.

Cragnotti: "Can we do that?"
Eriksson: "No, we can't give away these players."
Cragnotti: "What shall we do then?"
Eriksson: "Buy him."
Cragnotti: "OK."

Eriksson recalled in Zurich: "He didn't even try to pay 49. He just paid 50."

This is pretty much how I imagine the Danny Shittu/Zat Knight/Johan Elmander/Fabrice Muamba discussions went. I mean if you recall the Allardyce negotiations would go on for absolute AGES before we finally got our man, if we did at all. Then all of a sudden we were getting £5 million+ players on short notice. Don't know what changed.

Elmander was valued at 15M in the January window so you could say even with him we got him half price

Are you being serious here? I truly hope not.