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Lord Kangana
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Post by Lord Kangana » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:45 pm

I'll quote if you like:
As for Danny Guthrie in midfield? There are probably a few out there who like the cut of the mans jib, but from where I'm sat, he has the touch of an elephant, the strength of a bantamweight and the temperament of Steven Gerrard; ie a headless chicken who loses the ball far too often whilst running down blind alleys. Work rate is all well and good, but no end product means no use. Far too often he was muscled off the ball, far too often gave it away for want of a better first touch. He'd probably look good in the championship, so he may be worth hanging on to.
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Post by seanworth » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:50 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:I'll quote if you like:
As for Danny Guthrie in midfield? There are probably a few out there who like the cut of the mans jib, but from where I'm sat, he has the touch of an elephant, the strength of a bantamweight and the temperament of Steven Gerrard; ie a headless chicken who loses the ball far too often whilst running down blind alleys. Work rate is all well and good, but no end product means no use. Far too often he was muscled off the ball, far too often gave it away for want of a better first touch. He'd probably look good in the championship, so he may be worth hanging on to.
So you compared him to Steven Gerrard? :wink:

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Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:51 pm

My abiding memory of Guthrie is that he looked comfortable in possession but that was it. Absolutely no end product or that 'certain something' that'd have marked him out as worthwhile. Holden was bloody immense yesterday and as brave as you like. Personally I think Holden and Mark Davies could be a better pairing, certainly more balanced. Sam Ricketts must've watched three of our back four yesterday wondering what on earth he has to do to get a game?!
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Post by hisroyalgingerness » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:54 pm

Holden offers a lot of things that this side needs - he has decent ball control, can run with the football, has composure, a range of passing, a dead ball delivery and he's a tenacious bugger with his tackling and rarely goes in if he can't win.

Fab gets into positions because he plays behind clever players who suck in defenders and he gets free. If Fab ever develops either the ability to run with the ball and suck in defenders or a strike we'll have one monster midfield. As it is, he does his job pretty well, he is always there to cover the back for if needs be.

For the first 20 mins yesterday, them two boys ran the game, and we haven't had chance to say that about a Bolton midfield for some time. Muamba's use of the ball is improving all the time, and his first time passing is getting better. We get caught out on the counter if anything (pretty much how their goal and other best chance came about) when the midfield two do get a bit too far forward.

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Post by seanworth » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:56 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:My abiding memory of Guthrie is that he looked comfortable in possession but that was it. Absolutely no end product or that 'certain something' that'd have marked him out as worthwhile. Holden was bloody immense yesterday and as brave as you like. Personally I think Holden and Mark Davies could be a better pairing, certainly more balanced. Sam Ricketts must've watched three of our back four yesterday wondering what on earth he has to do to get a game?!
This was my memory. Of course at the time someone comfortable in possession seemed a rare talent indeed on the side. The problem was nothing ever came out of his possession. Holden has made a much greater contribution than Guthrie ever did in his short time with us, but agree we should jump ahead of ourselves.

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Post by jimbo » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:59 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:My abiding memory of Guthrie is that he looked comfortable in possession but that was it. Absolutely no end product or that 'certain something' that'd have marked him out as worthwhile. Holden was bloody immense yesterday and as brave as you like. Personally I think Holden and Mark Davies could be a better pairing, certainly more balanced. Sam Ricketts must've watched three of our back four yesterday wondering what on earth he has to do to get a game?!
Mine similar. He was nice and tidy, and probably stood out as the rest of the midfield at the time was cumbersome. He never really kicked on though from his early promise and faded badly around Christmas.

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Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:06 pm

jimbo wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:My abiding memory of Guthrie is that he looked comfortable in possession but that was it. Absolutely no end product or that 'certain something' that'd have marked him out as worthwhile. Holden was bloody immense yesterday and as brave as you like. Personally I think Holden and Mark Davies could be a better pairing, certainly more balanced. Sam Ricketts must've watched three of our back four yesterday wondering what on earth he has to do to get a game?!
Mine similar. He was nice and tidy, and probably stood out as the rest of the midfield at the time was cumbersome. He never really kicked on though from his early promise and faded badly around Christmas.
Exactly. In his first few games he looked like a seasoned pro because he was that comfortable with it, and is the reason why we were all thinking - Wow, how good will he be in time? However, what became obvious after a while was that what we'd already seen was all that we were ever going to see - at best.
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Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:11 pm

Holden's best attribute seems to be that he actually wants the ball. Tackling apart he's great at finding space to receive it and is always around to take it off somebody under pressure and change the direction of play. Dare I say a la Paul Scholes but able to tackle?
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Post by General Mannerheim » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:13 pm

I thought we were screaming out for another man in midfield (Mavis) yesterday, possibly at the expense of either ineffective wingers or later instead of the tired Elmo. As good as Holden is, id love to see him and Mavis together more, they seem to be on a similar wavelength and both try to play football, but id still have Moo in there as the muscle tho.

We really missed the threat of Klasnic from the bench, but at least it gave Rodders the chance to impress, and i think he did - id like to think we'll see them both come off the bench in future.

As for Petrov, he was much improved from WBA and Stoke, but still not up to much - he definitely has that little bit of class though that will sooner or later win us a game tho. id stick with him, but only because we have no better options.

i really wish Steinsson had the ability to match his effort, but its got to be time to try Ricketts!

Following was ok in numbers but far from full, and pretty quiet too where i was put. Still bugs me we dont sell it out tho, this and Blackburn - i know they're bigger clubs n'that but even Tottenham & Arsenal take more than we do to these fixtures, and they probably have to lay out a fair bit more for the privilege!? its a nice buzz when you have a ticket for a sold out game, sadly a feeling ive not had since The Carling Cup final!

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Post by hisroyalgingerness » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:22 pm

Holden and Mark Davies would be too small and lightweight to work in the Premier League as a pairing. Can we accept that and move on?

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Post by Tombwfc » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:28 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:I'll quote if you like:
As for Danny Guthrie in midfield? There are probably a few out there who like the cut of the mans jib, but from where I'm sat, he has the touch of an elephant, the strength of a bantamweight and the temperament of Steven Gerrard; ie a headless chicken who loses the ball far too often whilst running down blind alleys. Work rate is all well and good, but no end product means no use. Far too often he was muscled off the ball, far too often gave it away for want of a better first touch. He'd probably look good in the championship, so he may be worth hanging on to.
And yet you still said multiple times that you wanted us to sign him. Not that shit then?

Anyway, it's besides the point. On the evidence of his first few displays people thought he was better than what he was, lets not make the same mistake by getting carried away with Holden.

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Post by jimbo » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:36 pm

hisroyalgingerness wrote:Holden and Mark Davies would be too small and lightweight to work in the Premier League as a pairing. Can we accept that and move on?
But, as General mentions above, and I mention in the scousers thread, they could work very well as a 3.

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Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:46 pm

hisroyalgingerness wrote:Holden and Mark Davies would be too small and lightweight to work in the Premier League as a pairing. Can we accept that and move on?
In which case we'd be fooked everytime that Coyle brings Davies on for Muamba, so no, I can't just accept that and move on.
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Post by hisroyalgingerness » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Our Coyle would need to change his approach a bit mind

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Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:50 pm

Tombwfc wrote: On the evidence of his first few displays people thought he was better than what he was, lets not make the same mistake by getting carried away with Holden.
The two cases are entirely different though, Tom. With Guthrie everyone thought that he had the potential to develop into the finished article - he didn't. With Holden if he plays every game for us like he currently is then I for one will be absolutely delighted.
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Post by jimbo » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:52 pm

hisroyalgingerness wrote:Our Coyle would need to change his approach a bit mind
Indeed, and there is also the view that that would be changing the system to accommodate players rather than picking players to fulfil roles. 4-4-2 is working fine this season, but part of me really wants to see those 3 together and with Petrov and Lee in a dip now could be the time.

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Post by Montreal Wanderer » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote: He's a billion zillion trillion times the player Muamba is. He competed for more than double the number of tackles Muamba did yesterday (from the match stats) and given that ALL Muamba has in his game that is a damning stat.
BRUCE!!! I need help on this one - what is this in American?
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Post by Lord Kangana » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:05 pm

Tombwfc wrote: And yet you still said multiple times that you wanted us to sign him. Not that shit then?

.
That can't be possible, as all my opinions are formulated at the start of the season and set in stone.
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Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:16 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: He's a billion zillion trillion times the player Muamba is. He competed for more than double the number of tackles Muamba did yesterday (from the match stats) and given that ALL Muamba has in his game that is a damning stat.
BRUCE!!! I need help on this one - what is this in American?
I'm not entirely sure, Monty, but in Dollars it's around the amount that I was asked to impart had I ordered the Champagne in Vegas. :D
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Post by Montreal Wanderer » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:47 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: He's a billion zillion trillion times the player Muamba is. He competed for more than double the number of tackles Muamba did yesterday (from the match stats) and given that ALL Muamba has in his game that is a damning stat.
BRUCE!!! I need help on this one - what is this in American?
I'm not entirely sure, Monty, but in Dollars it's around the amount that I was asked to impart had I ordered the Champagne in Vegas. :D
I was in a restaurant a couple of weeks ago - the wine list offered a bottle of 1980 Romane Conti for $2500. I decided to pass (indeed we had water) but I doubted they actually had any in the cellar. I later looked it up on wine-searcher.com and it was a real bargain - the average price appears to be $7403! Oh well, I 'd rather have a couple of thousand bottles of beer over the next few years anyway.
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