Enter the Piedome. Two men enter, one man leaves.

[hisroyalgingerness]

Disagree that the wingers were poor. Lee had a superb first half and was the most likely player on the team to create things. Some really good anticipation to steal the ball on several occasions. What they lack is some support. Time after time they get the ball, get crowded out and have nowhere to pass it to. It usually ends up back at Knight who creatively leathers it forward or chases it back to Jussi.

Can't agree at all. Petrov and Lee got a lot of the ball, did nowt with it but give it away. When did ONE of them run their full back, or even try? And their delivery was shocking.

I'm not having it about lack of support about three times in the first half Petrov had Robbo overlapping but ended up turning back into trouble or pumping pointless balls into the box.

Petrov is worse because as well as offering nowt going forwards, he's a liability in possession leaves us in trouble and doesn't help Robbo out much at all.

LCY seems to not want to take a player on. If you're playing 4-4-2 with two wingers you expect your wingers to get on the outside of the full back a few times. To top it off just before he was withdrawn Petrov was released and had time and space with no man on him and blazed his cross far to high and it went out of play. If you're carrying a player like him he has to produce in those situations if he doesn't he's not worth his place. And right now he's not.

We can keep playing him in the hope he comes good but I think we're going to struggle if we keep carrying him and Lee especially when as everyone rightly points out Davies and Elmander are as poor as they were today. Though Elmander scored so like Lee last week he gets a reprieve!

[/quote]

There's loads of reasons the wingers aren't working out ideal. The service to them isn't ideal. Putting them on the back foot, so they have to check their run and then a second man has time to get over. There's not good enough movement ahead of them so they're constantly having to take second looks up.

I can agree that in one on one situations we aren't seeing either beat a man too often and the service is indifference at times. But I thought Lee made plenty happen today and let himself down with the final ball

[Bruce Rioja]

What game was lk watching? From the away end Petrov looked utterly wank. As did Lee. Overall poor and a lucky point. Taylor and Rodrigo both improved us for a spell though not hard to be better than lcy and Petrov!

Agree (crikey ) re: Petrov, he was absolutely dreadful. Every ball he tried to put into the box was either underhit or overhit. I don't think Lee was as bad but he needs to lift his head up more. There are players in today's starting line-up that need a rest and there are doubtlessly players on the bench clamping at the bit. Right, Owen. What are we going to do?

[as]

Cracking following, but sadly we had little to cheer about.

Holden was excellent, looks better every game, if he lost the blonde highlights he'd be a fans favourite.

We just couldn't get going today, but times have changed, my owd man is as miserable as FiO but when they scored he was confident we'd get one back.

The DW stadium is soul destroying, somehow they've got a ground within walking distance of town, but it'd be offensive to library's to compare it to one.

Awful place.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

My owd man is as miserable as FiO but when they scored he was confident we'd get one back.

Sums up the change of mood within the support AND the team. I was with your Dad on that (unless the "owd man" refers to your cock). When they scored, I never doubted that it would serve as nothing more than a kick up the arse. Rewind 12 months, and it could have been the key to the floodgates.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

holden looks greats. him & muamba actually make this 4-4-2 work it seems. something i didn't think possible at the start of the season.

I agree. It is close though. We were dominated if not overrun in midfield at Arsenal, but generally they just, and I mean at times just, hold it together in there. Holden will be one of the best finds in history if he keeps this up. He is already looking a £5m player.

[Lord Kangana]

What game was lk watching? From the away end Petrov looked utterly wank. As did Lee. Overall poor and a lucky point. Taylor and Rodrigo both improved us for a spell though not hard to be better than lcy and Petrov!

I believe he prepares his post match summations pre season and presses send at full time in each game

Tis so predictable


Truth is we're really not very good - decent point towards our survival, though

You'll be getting all misty eyed over rationing and ricketts next.

[CarlosHernandez]

Forgot to mention that Cleverley caused plenty of problems in his 10 minutes. I like his boldness.

[mullayo]

Holden was immense. Tackling (properly) playing it about. He was a one man army. Unfortunately that left Muamba free to arrive in perfect shooting positions.
Three times he should have pulled the trigger but obviously he's banned from it.

We owned them up until the injury (35mins?) then Diame came on and they switched Rodallega to the left wing and N'Somnia to the left and suddenly had width.
Lee and Petrov suffered after this and the game evened up. We owned them so bad and our only tactic seems to be crosses to flick on from Davies, yet when we pass it about Muamba can get into shooting positions every time. It's a riddle wrapped in a conundrum. Still Lee, Holden,Petrov, and Moreno for nearly no money is great business.

Maybe we should sell Cahill because Zat is better anyway and who knows what Coyle could do with a little cash?

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

when we pass it about Muamba can get into shooting positions every time.

You say that like it's a good thing....

[Lord Kangana]

To be fair to the mooster, if he'd scored that chance against Stoke (and it was a coat of paint from being a top drawer finish) we probably wouldn't still be taking the piss. Ah well, events dear boy, events.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

And to be fair to him, it is the only part of his game we can take the mickey out of. I think the reason Holden's making so many more tackles than him is because Holden's the one badgering and harrying. Muamba seems the enforcer who can sit and be that second wave of tackling. Not that it worked that well yesterday. There was a lot of space between midfield and defence yesterday, although that often happens when the other team look to break as much and as quick as Wigan did yesterday.

[Lord Kangana]

Their (enforced) first substitution changed the game. Before it we were in control, after it, they were (mostly, in each case).

On balance, 1-1 is a fair result off the full 90.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Holden was immense. Tackling (properly) playing it about. He was a one man army. Unfortunately that left Muamba free to arrive in perfect shooting positions.
Three times he should have pulled the trigger but obviously he's banned from it.

We owned them up until the injury (35mins?) then Diame came on and they switched Rodallega to the left wing and N'Somnia to the left and suddenly had width.
Lee and Petrov suffered after this and the game evened up. We owned them so bad and our only tactic seems to be crosses to flick on from Davies, yet when we pass it about Muamba can get into shooting positions every time. It's a riddle wrapped in a conundrum. Still Lee, Holden,Petrov, and Moreno for nearly no money is great business.

Maybe we should sell Cahill because Zat is better anyway and who knows what Coyle could do with a little cash?

And Ricktetts has proved over short periods he is at least as effective as either of them. The way we are going though, Cahill would be better off staying here. He might not get a regular game at one of the top clubs, and our reputation and respect levels seem to be rising all the time, meaning his international career might flourish here. All good.

[TANGODANCER]

Not that it worked that well yesterday. There was a lot of space between midfield and defence yesterday, although that often happens when the other team look to break as much and as quick as Wigan did yesterday.

There were also far too many areas of space for their ball receivers to run into. Time after time our defence backed off and left gaps everywhere when a bit of man -marking and hustling a la Muamba would have been a far better option than letting tricky ball players run at you and push you back. Both full backs getting dragged in the direction of play and leaving a wide player free for a cross is something else noticable. That's how Delap scored against us last week and Cleverley almost did yesterday, and it's something we need to address.

[Bruce Rioja]

when we pass it about Muamba can get into shooting positions every time.

You say that like it's a good thing....

Dr Hotdog and I took cover every time it looked as though Muamba might have a crack, and we were at the back of the stand, sat/stood in the corner. I see he never did find those 'shooting boots' that he was supposedly looking for.

[Tombwfc]

It can't be just luck that he's always in those positions though. Holden may do a lot of things well, but he looks less likely to score than Muamba does.

Good player, and played well yesterday, but there is something of a Danny Guthrie about him.

[TANGODANCER]

Maybe he should be encouraged to shoot on sight. The one goal he did score was an absolute cracker, ball control, trickery and a great finish. After all, he's just as entitled to blast it anywhere as is Petrov, Taylor and others and one or two might just go in. Like somebody mentioned, it looks like he's been instructed not to shoot.

[BWFC_Insane]

It can't be just luck that he's always in those positions though. Holden may do a lot of things well, but he looks less likely to score than Muamba does.

Good player, and played well yesterday, but there is something of a Danny Guthrie about him.

Are you serious?

Are we really honestly judging Holden because he doesn't look like scoring goals?

He's the engine room of our side. He's made the most tackles of any premiership player, he keeps the ball well, passes well, moves off the ball, he does pretty much everthing apart from score.

He's a billion zillion trillion times the player Muamba is. He competed for more than double the number of tackles Muamba did yesterday (from the match stats) and given that ALL Muamba has in his game that is a damning stat.

Comparing Holden to Guthrie is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Guthrie was a lightweight who ran aimlessly and didn't have half the ball retention ability Holden does.

If we get all that Holden gives but without goals I'll take that. What we need to do is find a far better player to go with him if we're to persist with the style we're playing as so far this season Muamba hasn't cut it and he destorys a lot of our attacks IMO!

[Lord Kangana]

Holden looks about 17.4 billion times the player that Guthrie was. This is mostly because Guthrie was shit.

[Tombwfc]

Let's not re-write history, people on here (including myself) were getting just as carried away with Guthrie at the start as they are with Holden. I'm sure the threads are still there if you look back far enough. He was a young kid, with a great engine and great technique, and in the first few months of him being here people talking about him being a four/five million pound player.

Danny was the closest in terms of style, but really there's been quite a few new signings that have been built up out of all proportion and then felt the backlash afterwards when they couldn't justify it (RIGA! RIGA! RIGA!). Re-read my post above, I'm not saying I think Guthrie is better, or that Holden is shit (the opposite in fact), but the comparison is there.