Holden and Mavies?

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Holden and Mavies?

Post by t_o_molloy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:21 pm

Might get criticised for this, but for me, Muamba is a good holding player when he is on form. When he isn't on form, he is a liability.
Furthermore, Holden wins more balls than Muamba does, technically making him the better holding player out of the two.
Holden has also been consistently good in almost every game he's played, and in my opinion is the player we all want Muamba to be (good tackler, good passer, good shot). We also - in particular Muamba - sorely missed him yesterday.
And no I'm not forgetting last season, because once Coyle took over, Muamba was a revelation.

However, yesterday Mark Davies (especially in the first and last 15 minutes) reminded me of how he played on his debut against Spurs. Great passing, running at players, and dare I say it, had a little bit of the Jack Wilshere about him.
I suggest, for one game that we trial a central midfield pairing of Holden and Mavies. I know the general consensus will be that it will be too 'lightweight' but to be fair, Holden has done more of the dirty work than Muamba this season anyway.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:24 pm

Worth a try, but not next Saturday, as City play 2 or 3 physically strong players in CM each game and Holden and Mavis would probably get overrun.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by t_o_molloy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:29 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:Worth a try, but not next Saturday, as City play 2 or 3 physically strong players in CM each game and Holden and Mavis would probably get overrun.
I agree.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:33 pm

Muamba on a bad day is a better tackler ( not necessarily a better player) than Mark Davies on a good one. MD is prone to dive-ins that give away free kicks. Muamba always breaks up attacks really well. He has his short-comings but, on the whole the Holden/Muamba partnership is one of the reasons we're where we are this year.
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by William the White » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:36 pm

If Holden and Muamba are both fit they should both start. If anyone thinks they have done poorly as a partnership they should seriously consider whether they should have gone to specsavers.

Since we are playing a four man midfield, and many of our opponents don't, we need that energy and that variety of skills. Blackpool's five gave us a very difficult time yesterday. Mavies did well, very well. But not enough to force himself in front of Holden. And, for me, Muamba starts - head, tackle, cover the ground, do it again. And again. He's excellent. And with Holden provides a real reason for optimism in a team not afraid to attack.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by plymouth wanderer » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:37 pm

i agree it's all down to who we play but mavies can mix it up abit also
i think mavies is better than wilshere IMO
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by Ianmooreslovechild » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:52 pm

Wouldn't want to see it against city. With davis' ability to go past people tho he could play nominally left midfield and come inside/switch with Holden(would be worth doing just to hear how the pundits react to Bolton playing something close to total football).A number of players including Muamba looked out of sorts on saturday.Holden has a talent for almost always being available for a short pass when we win the ball.Think Muamba really missed that and also would have been wary of playing quite as freely as he normally does knowing he didn't have Holden around to cover things if they went awry.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:02 pm

Hmmm.

Holden - proactive, go-getting marauder when we don't have the ball. Proactive option when we do.
Muamba - positionally aware midfield enforcer that compliments Holden well when we don't have the ball. Unfussy passer who doesn't give too much away when we do.
Davies - pulls the strings and dictates play when we do have the ball. A medium between the two above when we don't.

For the sake of City, we should go back to what we know. Seeing how Fellaini outmuscled Holden for most of the Everton game, I can't see Mavies being a decent "second wave" if Yaya Toure and De Jong are doing the same.
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by Gaz Tomorrow » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:16 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:i agree it's all down to who we play but mavies can mix it up abit also
i think mavies is better than wilshere IMO
really????

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by FaninOz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:22 am

I suppose everything depends on how bad Holden's injury is and whether he could play 90 mins this weekend. Also Coyle has been consistent in keeping players in when he has been forced to make a change, e.g. Taylor and Rickets, so he may well give Mark another start to see what he can do. Its part of Coyle's man management approach I guess, in that he probably tells his players if you get in and play well then you get another game until you don't play well. (for everyone except Kevin and Jussi that is, who always get a start if fit)

So I expect Mark to start and for Holden, if fit, to be on the bench to come on if things aren't working out well.
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by boltonboris » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:37 am

We'll use all 3 of Holden, Muamba and M. Davies at some point on Saturday. De Jong and co will kick our lads into submission for 90 minutes.

Good players need protecting from thugs like these!



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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by seanworth » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:41 am

I am very happy with Holden and Muamba right now, although a Holden and M. Davies does sound tempting. Maybe hold off until the FA cup game and then try it out.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by bobo the clown » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:29 pm

Gaz Tomorrow wrote:
plymouth wanderer wrote:i agree it's all down to who we play but mavies can mix it up abit also
i think mavies is better than wilshere IMO
really????
Steady on Plym.

...& I'm looking forward to Hlden meeting de Jong again on Saturday. Could be interesting.
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by plymouth wanderer » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:18 pm

same here love holden to dominate the midfield on saturday

mavies is better :mrgreen:
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by Ianmooreslovechild » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:51 pm

I'd rather Holden not get too involved with de Jong given he has such intimate knowledge of exactly where Holden's leg was last broken and is callous enough to try and do it again.Put Holden on the bench and bring him on after Muamba has been sent off and de Jong is safely on a stretcher.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:01 pm

FaninOz wrote:I suppose everything depends on how bad Holden's injury is and whether he could play 90 mins this weekend. Also Coyle has been consistent in keeping players in when he has been forced to make a change, e.g. Taylor and Rickets, so he may well give Mark another start to see what he can do. Its part of Coyle's man management approach I guess, in that he probably tells his players if you get in and play well then you get another game until you don't play well. (for everyone except Kevin and Jussi that is, who always get a start if fit)

So I expect Mark to start and for Holden, if fit, to be on the bench to come on if things aren't working out well.
Not sure I agree here. Taylor was put in because he was playing much better than Petrov, while Ricketts got his chance because of a suspension (he doesn't seem to have outperformed Steinsson so I expect the latter back). Mavies had a good offensive (sorry Bruce) game but I think Holden has shown a better overall game and is no slouch with the ball either. If fit, I expect him back.
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by Soldier_Of_The_White_Army » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:37 pm

I watched Holden against Newcastle, and while everyone seems to have had Elmander nailed down as MOTM, it was Holden for me. His performance reminded me of that of Beckham's against Greece. Not a foot wrong and covered every, single blade of grass. Putting him as the holding midfielder would deny him the abilty to do just that. Mark Davies might give us more of a creative option in the centre of midfield, but the Muamba/Holden partnership is a big, if not the biggest factor in our recent form. It works, you only have to think back to the Spurs game to be reminded of it. Davies is a great little player and a fantastic ace to have up our sleeve, yet I'm left thinking would Blackpool's central midfield have had the run of the mill they had if Holden was playing?

Either way, what a great argument to have! :D
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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by SonsOfThunder » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:57 pm

seanworth wrote:I am very happy with Holden and Muamba right now, although a Holden and M. Davies does sound tempting. Maybe hold off until the FA cup game and then try it out.
I agree completely. And I've always wanted to see Holden next to Mavies in midfield, but this weekend isn't the time to be trying out new tricks. Stick to what has brought us success thus far and hope that Holden/Muamba can hold up against City's midfield.

Against York otoh I would give Mavies another start and tell him to pull the strings. Perhaps even in place of Holden in case we don't want to overwork him coming off an injury. Then when Holden is back to optimal fitness perhaps we can play him alongside Mavies and give Muamba a bit of a rest.

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by H. Pedersen » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:38 pm

It seems really harsh to drop Mark Davies after such a good performance against Blackpool. Still, you can't argue with success and Holden/Muamba has been our best pairing. 4-4-2 does scare me a bit against City though. Maybe there's room for all 3?

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Re: Holden and Mavies?

Post by boltonboris » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:41 pm

At the expense of which forward HP?
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