defence - aghhh!!!

[thebish]

this is not an attack on Coyle...

it is clear he knows what he's doing when trying to blend a midfield and strike-force to produce a more potent goal-threat - I and love him and want his babies for that - but does he know what he's doing defensively?? i know we have a specific goalkeeping coach - do we also have a "defensive" coach? (in rugby you will often find a backs coach and a forwards coach)

if so - who is he - and do we need (another) one?

I can't believe it is simply the quality of the playing staff - they are not ferdinand and vidic - but we have a decent enough back four...

[BWFC_Insane]

this is not an attack on Coyle...

it is clear he knows what he's doing when trying to blend a midfield and strike-force to produce a more potent goal-threat - I and love him and want his babies for that - but does he know what he's doing defensively?? i know we have a specific goalkeeping coach - do we also have a "defensive" coach? (in rugby you will often find a backs coach and a forwards coach)

if so - who is he - and do we need (another) one?

I can't believe it is simply the quality of the playing staff - they are not ferdinand and vidic - but we have a decent enough back four...

I think Steve Davis does a lot of the defensive organisation. He always seems to stand up and bawl instructions when we're defending set pieces or under pressure.

Personally I don't think we're badly organised I just think the way we play puts more pressure on the back four.

Our biggest problem is too much comes through the centre of midfield especially when Holden isn't there. Mark Davies lost the ball too much last night and the stump alongside him might aswell have put a Wigan shirt on.

Cahill and Knight, never have and never will be a great centre half partnership. Ricketts is good going forwards from right back, but to me never looks comfortable defending from there. Robinson is our only out and out "natural" defender who puts his body on the line.

My opinion always has been we need a midfield that controls the game more and is more capable of filling holes and essentially keeping the ball, and then a centre half partnership behind them that are better defenders than the two we have. It might be that we can find a player more suited to going with Knight once Cahill goes. OR we might need to rip it up and get a new partnership totally. Time will tell.

But improving on Muamba is something we should be looking at in the short to mid-term.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I think it boils down to the lack of competition, you need players pressing you to maintain your standards and at the moment for one reason or another everyone playing currently is first and only pick for their positions.

Oh and Cahill and Knight - one who thinks he's Beckenbaur and the other who is scared of the ball on the ground. Not a great combination if you ask me.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it boils down to the lack of competition, you need players pressing you to maintain your standards and at the moment for one reason or another everyone playing currently is first and only pick for their positions.

Oh and Cahill and Knight - one who thinks he's Beckenbaur and the other who is scared of the ball on the ground. Not a great combination if you ask me.

Good points. Especially about the lack of competition. When we've not defended well Coyle hasn't had the options to change things.

And the partnership isn't great as you say.

[newboy]

sell Cahill bring in in Samba. Knight isn't a bad defender but i don't think he works well with Cahill , they don't seem to be on the same wavelength. if anything i think Cahills to sophisticated and more suited to club with like minded players. cash in while his stock is high .

the lack of clean sheets is a real worry it's guaranteed if we don't score we get beat and when we do we have to score in multiples not many 1 nil wins.

[BWFC_Insane]

sell Cahill bring in in Samba. Knight isn't a bad defender but i don't think he works well with Cahill , they don't seem to be on the same wavelength. if anything i think Cahills to sophisticated and more suited to club with like minded players. cash in while his stock is high .

the lack of clean sheets is a real worry it's guaranteed if we don't score we get beat and when we do we have to score in multiples not many 1 nil wins.

Good player Samba.

Won't move here in a million years.

No more than Cahill would consider Blackburn!

[Bruno3]

Ricketts and Knight are a much more solid combination. The problem is that we only have Steinsson (when fit) for right back and he's not been at his best (to be polite) this season.
Lack of competition is definitely a factor but I also think Cahill's got his head more on a future transfer than concentrating on the job in hand.

[Prufrock]

It's the way we play. We've spent the last 10 years or so watching football designed to get a clean sheet and build from there. OK some of it was more successful than others, but that was the design. Now it's let's score more than them. We are far more open. At least once or twice a game we see midfielders running directly at our back four. That NEVER used to happen. We're going to score more, but we're always going to concede more as well. I really don't think we've been that terrible at the back this year, but they've got more defending to do. The problem we'd have if Cahill goes and was replaced with a Samba type is that we might get better at last ditch defending, but we'd lose so much going forward. Everything good we do starts with either Cahill or Robinson, and goes through Holden. We've seen how much we miss Holden in terms of just simply keeping the ball and having options, it would be even worse if Cahill wasn't there either. Knight last night was again practising how far he could kick it. When he's good he is a good defender, but he is terrified of the ball. Given how we are set up that is a problem.

I think ultimately, it is just one of the things we have to put up with given how we are set up. I think the last few weeks have also proven that, despite all the stick Robbo and Steinsson have had about being 'weak links' they are actually very important. Steinsson by dint of how meh Ricketts is, his promising runs let down by no end product and no actual defending, and Robinson given he has been immense for the last few weeks.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Got to agree that we'd miss Cahill, a lot

Especially if replaced with a lump

If we get offered eight figures I can see the reasoning, but some seem to simply want shut

If you're playing passing football, it helps to have a bloke with talent at the back

[hisroyalgingerness]

I've never been able to suss why Cahill passes to Zat. He must know that his pal has the distribution ability of Royal Mail after six inch of snow. When there's no pressure on either sure Zat should just drop off and let Cahill do a Mark Fish. But no, Gary passes it sidewards then watches as the ball gets chucked up to nothingness, or out to row z.

[Worthy4England]

I've never been able to suss why Cahill passes to Zat. He must know that his pal has the distribution ability of Royal Mail after six inch of snow. When there's no pressure on either sure Zat should just drop off and let Cahill do a Mark Fish. But no, Gary passes it sidewards then watches as the ball gets chucked up to nothingness, or out to row z.

Was thinking very similar. Somewhere I think OC has his "ball playing central defenders" mixed up. DSB's post would make great sense if Cahill didn't normally pass it to Knight, who generally hoofs it somewhere random and occasionally falls over it.

[officer_dibble]

haha Knight isn't the best but he's not that bad worthy!

I'd let Cahill go for his release fee (and can't see how we can get more for him?) but lets face it more often than not his pace and awareness is a massive plus for the back. We certainly couldn't replace him with anyone slower.

I'm with pru, we're certainly in the late 90's Keegan Newcastle team mould, and lets face it thems were the toons glory days....if we can get somewhere near where they were before it went to pot...well grand. If it means we win more 3-2 than 1-0 and its all a bit of a knife edge....then hey, thats what we wanted right?

Wouldn't have it any other way...I think

[Lord Kangana]

We've got a +5 goal difference in January. January, not August, January.

This must be the most balanced team we've had in years.

[Prufrock]

That'll be something to do with this new fangled winning games shite Coyleys come up with.

[CAPSLOCK]

Mark Davies lost the ball too much last night and the stump alongside him might aswell have put a Wigan shirt on.

I expect better of you

Seriously

[BWFC_Insane]

Mark Davies lost the ball too much last night and the stump alongside him might aswell have put a Wigan shirt on.

I expect better of you

Seriously

Sorry Caps and I knew you'd disagree, but I've come to the end of my tether with Muamba. He can tackle and chase but he doesn't seem to have any sort of football brain, can't pass for toffee and breaks up a lot of breaks we have with poor control and/or distribution. He's had enough premiership games IMO to be improving but I don't see it.

He gets away with it when Holden plays because Holden is such a good all round player. In a team supposedly trying to play football Muamba just can't keep the ball well enough. And as a "defensive" midfield player I don't think he does enough to break up attacks. Watch their goal. Muamba gets back then ball watches as Wigan walk through our midfield.

I didn't notice Ben Watson giving away simply possession or trapping it as far as he can kick it.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Knight shite. Absolutely.

Would rather have £20m to spend on five new players than Gary Cahill though.

[Gaz Tomorrow]

I think the most important thing for us defence wise is speed. The style we now play needs a quick defence incase we are caught on the break. I don't think the current partnership has that and anyone coming in if Cahill goes needs to have speed.

[Gaz Tomorrow]

haha Knight isn't the best but he's not that bad worthy!

I'd let Cahill go for his release fee (and can't see how we can get more for him?) but lets face it more often than not his pace and awareness is a massive plus for the back. We certainly couldn't replace him with anyone slower.

I'm with pru, we're certainly in the late 90's Keegan Newcastle team mould, and lets face it thems were the toons glory days....if we can get somewhere near where they were before it went to pot...well grand. If it means we win more 3-2 than 1-0 and its all a bit of a knife edge....then hey, thats what we wanted right?

Wouldn't have it any other way...I think

BANG ON!!!

[SonsOfThunder]

I think the most important thing for us defence wise is speed. The style we now play needs a quick defence incase we are caught on the break. I don't think the current partnership has that and anyone coming in if Cahill goes needs to have speed.

I think you're absolutely right. It'll also help if said replacement didn't have the propensity to go all Beckenbauer from time to time.