TheOwen Coyle Myth? Fair analysis from a blog

[TKIZ!]

http://ghostgoal.co.uk/2011/05/17/the-owen-coyle-myth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

What do you reckon?

[Whookam]

http://ghostgoal.co.uk/2011/05/17/the-owen-coyle-myth/?

What do you reckon?

Some fair points, for instance the elephant in the room has always been our chronic lack of short passes. However the author is clearly unaware that Mark Davies has been struggling with an injury since before Holden got crocked (picked up in a comment). I think the thing Coyle has done is make us into a more attacking side and so we've benefited from the line of thinking that more attacking football = better football.

[a1]

the title makes it look like it were written by an utter knobhead.

[Lord Kangana]

I got as far as seeing the situtaion analysis box.

F*ck off.

Its been more exciting, whatever it is we're doing.

[LiOC]

I'm not too convinced with their source of data, as whookham mentioned the M. Davies thing. Wasn't Cahill booked for Diving too? That isn't on the graph. Some fair points, but their is a distinctly different style, even if we all believe the major difference is atmosphere. There's no negative substitutions, not just whack it up to Davo techniques etc. I'd like to see the stats on successful passes now and last year as there's quite a few great "long balls" that have worked, and before it may be biased memories, but we weren't even particularly good at that.
No doubting that the style's changed, but perhaps the writer might want to consider it's not as black/white as long or short and that a positivity is more of a style change than the way you pass the ball.
The fouls I don't think we can argue with too much, we're still a pretty physical team, in a game that seems like it's trying to become non-contact at times. Sometimes we have bad ref. decisions but we do have a lot of unnecessary fouls.

[jimbo_bwfc]

I don't know, I got the feeling the whole article is based around a few quotes after matches when we did play some very good fooball.

The general consensus this season has been we're playing a more attractive brand of football, but still mixing and matching and making full use of our ariel prowess (and also accomdating shit players left from the previous regime who can only hoof it from the back). In fact, the end of that article pretty much says that Coyle thinks that himself. Made a small impact but wants to go much further in terms of changing the style of play.

Things like sticking with 4-4-2 (perhaps tactical naivety) but proves that we don't go into games looking for a 1-0/0-0 or shutting up shop when we're drawing against anyone (such as the number of times we've been winning by a goal or drawing against a big team and Coyle's brought on Mark Davies for Muamba).

Anti-football/negative football is not about the amount of long passes you make- or even more ridiculously about the number of fouls you concede- but the mindset, the way you set up and about trying to go and win games rather than holding out and letting the opposition play football whilst you look for mistakes and scraps.

I thought the article did have 'some' merit, in terms of pointing out Bolton still play a style of football that MOST teams in the Premier League play (bar the top teams-whether it's the 'fashionable' West Ham or the 'dirty, anti-football' Stoke)

If the point of the article was that media perceptions become fact, then I'd agree- Coyle has probably done more to adhere Bolton to them as a club than the likes of Megson or Allardyce and they therefore write more positive stuff about us.

But Coyle's ability or us being easier on the eye as a myth? No, I wouldn't agree with that.

[William the White]

Our default position is long to Davies. Not as persistently, but still frequently...

We use the wings more under Coyle - and the sheer knackerdness of LCY has contributed to the muted end to the season...

The lack of both holden and m davies in central midfield has led to the temptation to the direct route being more attractive...

Coyle's football is easier on the eye... After Megson that was not a difficult to achieve... Better than big Sam's? Sam was the 'pragmatist' that signed Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, Hierro, Anelka and had Bergsson as his captain. Way to go, Owen.

But might get there.

[Tombwfc]

I think the central thrust of the article - that the idea we've transformed into a free-flowing attacking football, is a myth - is entirely correct.

I still couldn't care less. I've never found us scoring from a long hoof up field any less entertaining than any other type of goal. Infact, the entire idea of passing football being the 'right way to play' seems a bit of a media created phenomenon in itself. Goals are where the entertainment of football lies, not how you score them. Ever watched Arsenal pass it around neatly, refusing to shoot? It's fecking boring.

We're not more entertaining this season because we're passing sides to death, but because we've won more, lost less and scored a good deal more goals.

[Lord Kangana]

The meeja always set something up to fail. They do it on purpose.

Create a story, then after a few weeks pretend it was public opinion and gainsay it as if somehow or other you've done some thorough investigative work to debunk it.

Utter bollox.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

Our default position is long to Davies. Not as persistently, but still frequently...

We use the wings more under Coyle - and the sheer knackerdness of LCY has contributed to the muted end to the season...

The lack of both holden and m davies in central midfield has led to the temptation to the direct route being more attractive...

Coyle's football is easier on the eye... After Megson that was not a difficult to achieve... Better than big Sam's? Sam was the 'pragmatist' that signed Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, Hierro, Anelka and had Bergsson as his captain. Way to go, Owen.

But might get there.

The last couple of seasons under BSA were anything but pleasing on the eye. Okocha was there to take throw ins and we provided Stoke with the blueprint for their 29.5 secs each free kick/throw in/goal kick move down the pitch in increments stryle of play.
Coyle promises a lot more than that

[LiOC]

I think the central thrust of the article - that the idea we've transformed into a free-flowing attacking football, is a myth - is entirely correct.

I still couldn't care less. I've never found us scoring from a long hoof up field any less entertaining than any other type of goal. Infact, the entire idea of passing football being the 'right way to play' seems a bit of a media created phenomenon in itself. Goals are where the entertainment of football lies, not how you score them. Ever watched Arsenal pass it around neatly, refusing to shoot? It's fecking boring.

We're not more entertaining this season because we're passing sides to death, but because we've won more, lost less and scored a good deal more goals.

Gotta agree with this. I can't understand this idea that that's the best way to play football. I've never been entertained by passing the ball back to the defence to enjoy some possession rather than get it in the box.
At the start of the season Petrov and Robbo seemed to do a lot of passing on the wing without crossing it or being challenged or doing much useful things, cue Davo in the penalty area looking unimpressed and fans yelling "CROSS IT". That wasn't exciting either.

[Gaz Tomorrow]

I think the central thrust of the article - that the idea we've transformed into a free-flowing attacking football, is a myth - is entirely correct.

I still couldn't care less. I've never found us scoring from a long hoof up field any less entertaining than any other type of goal. Infact, the entire idea of passing football being the 'right way to play' seems a bit of a media created phenomenon in itself. Goals are where the entertainment of football lies, not how you score them. Ever watched Arsenal pass it around neatly, refusing to shoot? It's fecking boring.

We're not more entertaining this season because we're passing sides to death, but because we've won more, lost less and scored a good deal more goals.

Gotta agree with this. I can't understand this idea that that's the best way to play football. I've never been entertained by passing the ball back to the defence to enjoy some possession rather than get it in the box.
At the start of the season Petrov and Robbo seemed to do a lot of passing on the wing without crossing it or being challenged or doing much useful things, cue Davo in the penalty area looking unimpressed and fans yelling "CROSS IT". That wasn't exciting either.

I think its a fine line. Barcelona play this sort of football by just totally shutting the other team out. However they manage to attack lots too, and most importantly, in comparison to Arsenal, Barcelona win things

[William the White]

Our default position is long to Davies. Not as persistently, but still frequently...

We use the wings more under Coyle - and the sheer knackerdness of LCY has contributed to the muted end to the season...

The lack of both holden and m davies in central midfield has led to the temptation to the direct route being more attractive...

Coyle's football is easier on the eye... After Megson that was not a difficult to achieve... Better than big Sam's? Sam was the 'pragmatist' that signed Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, Hierro, Anelka and had Bergsson as his captain. Way to go, Owen.

But might get there.

The last couple of seasons under BSA were anything but pleasing on the eye. Okocha was there to take throw ins and we provided Stoke with the blueprint for their 29.5 secs each free kick/throw in/goal kick move down the pitch in increments stryle of play.
Coyle promises a lot more than that

I absolutely agree with this... Pretty much every word... And really hope that Coyle doesn't deliver any less than the previous seasons of Big Sam - and, indeed, surpasses them... just saying he has a way to go before he does... I think we are probably in agreement...

[LiOC]

I think the central thrust of the article - that the idea we've transformed into a free-flowing attacking football, is a myth - is entirely correct.

I still couldn't care less. I've never found us scoring from a long hoof up field any less entertaining than any other type of goal. Infact, the entire idea of passing football being the 'right way to play' seems a bit of a media created phenomenon in itself. Goals are where the entertainment of football lies, not how you score them. Ever watched Arsenal pass it around neatly, refusing to shoot? It's fecking boring.

We're not more entertaining this season because we're passing sides to death, but because we've won more, lost less and scored a good deal more goals.

Gotta agree with this. I can't understand this idea that that's the best way to play football. I've never been entertained by passing the ball back to the defence to enjoy some possession rather than get it in the box.
At the start of the season Petrov and Robbo seemed to do a lot of passing on the wing without crossing it or being challenged or doing much useful things, cue Davo in the penalty area looking unimpressed and fans yelling "CROSS IT". That wasn't exciting either.

I think its a fine line. Barcelona play this sort of football by just totally shutting the other team out. However they manage to attack lots too, and most importantly, in comparison to Arsenal, Barcelona win things

Right to the point there. I cannot understand why, when they're losing, Arsenal seem to think it's better to share the ball through the defence than get it into the box and give themselves a fighting chance! It does count if you score a goal and not everyone gets a touch of the ball, you know?

[thebish]

Right to the point there. I cannot understand why, when they're losing, Arsenal seem to think it's better to share the ball through the defence than get it into the box and give themselves a fighting chance! It does count if you score a goal and not everyone gets a touch of the ball, you know?

that's because they rarely have anyone actually in the box - they're all on the edge waiting for a clever pass and the chance to set up an intricate 1-2

[Gooner Girl]

Right to the point there. I cannot understand why, when they're losing, Arsenal seem to think it's better to share the ball through the defence than get it into the box and give themselves a fighting chance! It does count if you score a goal and not everyone gets a touch of the ball, you know?

that's because they rarely have anyone actually in the box - they're all on the edge waiting for a clever pass and the chance to set up an intricate 1-2

Sadly you're both right... Its infuriating

[bw@bw]

OC is a brilliant PR man and evidently a very good motivator and man manager.
He can make ordinary players better, and get them to gel as a team.
Above all from the perception point of view - he has changed the thought process. Games break up in the last quarter as players tire and that creates chances and goals.
Unlike many managers who see that as a risk and shut up shop, OC sees it as a chance to strike whilst the other side is tiring - and so his substitutions are more positive.
Not only does it look and feel good but it has produced some good results.

And he has done most of this with no money and someone else's choice of players.

He still has a long way to go to reach the levels which Allardyce achieved.

The next couple of years will show what he is really capable of.

There is no way he can replicate the Allardyce glory years - the ageing superstars are no longer available, and the tactical smartness of playing the 4-5-1 sliding in to 4-3-3 as they way to beat bigger better funded teams was ahead of its time - but the others have caught up and found ways of countering it.

So he has to find his own way.

I hope his positive approach extends to giving the youngsters a real chance - and I see no harm in going for more players like Cahill, Muamba, Mavies, Wheater (combined cost about £15m) - young players who have had a start elsewhere and really want to prove themselves.

This year was almost a great year - but it fizzled out.
In the end, the table - apart from West Brom and West Ham was a pretty accurate reflection of spending power.

This is the reality he has to contend with.

He will have to replace about a third of the squad (apart from Cahill and Elmo mostly non contributors)- but we will go into next year in the bottom quarter in terms of spending power again -so that will test his buying ability.

SKD is coming to the end of his career, and like for like he is irreplaceable - so different tactics and style have to come.

But he should at least have a set of players who are committed to playing for him - and utterly motivated.

I doubt that we have much chance of getting into the top 8 next year- purely on financial grounds - but if he can get us to hit 48-50 points in a consistently positive style, and maybe another good cup run he will have made his mark and it won't be a myth.

[Turkish Trotter]

OC is a brilliant PR man and evidently a very good motivator and man manager.
He can make ordinary players better, and get them to gel as a team.
Above all from the perception point of view - he has changed the thought process. Games break up in the last quarter as players tire and that creates chances and goals.
Unlike many managers who see that as a risk and shut up shop, OC sees it as a chance to strike whilst the other side is tiring - and so his substitutions are more positive.
Not only does it look and feel good but it has produced some good results.

And he has done most of this with no money and someone else's choice of players.

He still has a long way to go to reach the levels which Allardyce achieved.

The next couple of years will show what he is really capable of.

There is no way he can replicate the Allardyce glory years - the ageing superstars are no longer available, and the tactical smartness of playing the 4-5-1 sliding in to 4-3-3 as they way to beat bigger better funded teams was ahead of its time - but the others have caught up and found ways of countering it.

So he has to find his own way.

I hope his positive approach extends to giving the youngsters a real chance - and I see no harm in going for more players like Cahill, Muamba, Mavies, Wheater (combined cost about £15m) - young players who have had a start elsewhere and really want to prove themselves.

This year was almost a great year - but it fizzled out.
In the end, the table - apart from West Brom and West Ham was a pretty accurate reflection of spending power.

This is the reality he has to contend with.

He will have to replace about a third of the squad (apart from Cahill and Elmo mostly non contributors)- but we will go into next year in the bottom quarter in terms of spending power again -so that will test his buying ability.

SKD is coming to the end of his career, and like for like he is irreplaceable - so different tactics and style have to come.

But he should at least have a set of players who are committed to playing for him - and utterly motivated.

I doubt that we have much chance of getting into the top 8 next year- purely on financial grounds - but if he can get us to hit 48-50 points in a consistently positive style, and maybe another good cup run he will have made his mark and it won't be a myth.

I'll go along with that !!