Corners

officer_dibble · Post by **officer_dibble** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:08 pm

WTF is going on with corners? Two teams leaving 3 men up against our own, us still prehistorically dragging everyone back when defending them. This new tactic seems to have us flumoxed...flooding the box with men is how we get goals...almost seems like it would be a game of russian roulette - what if we gambled and threw a couple more men forward, would two or threee of the oppositions forward men come back? Problem with doing that is if its a shit corner and cleared quickly we are f*cked.

Still think its a shambles we pull 11 men back in the box though, think at 5-0 for the last corner n'gog stayed forward. It also makes me think we don't work on set pieces, cos it was a Megson (Big Sam even) tactic the only one we haven't changed on. It doesn't seem very Coyle.

hisroyalgingerness · Post by **hisroyalgingerness** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:13 pm

The tactic defending corners is backfiring big time.

All 11 men dragged in to within 8 yards of goal, so anything short, we're fecked defending. If we clear the ball, we're too slow to close down (see Barry's goal) and we have to defend another 2, 3 phases of play.

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:23 pm

Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

I don't get why folks get their knickers in such a twist over this. If bringing 11 back means we are less likely to concede and that like it or not is a fact according to Allardyce and Coyle, then it might not be pretty but hey it's hardly end of the world stuff!

hisroyalgingerness · Post by **hisroyalgingerness** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:32 pm

Conceded at least twice from corners already this season

boltonboris · Post by **boltonboris** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:56 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway?? Sometimes, it's just nice to relieve a bit of pressure. Whenever we concede a corner for the next few minutes we're under the kosh(cosh?) as we've no outlet. Oppo just keeps recycling whilst we keep trying to defend. This is when you start ball watching too...

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:57 pm

officer_dibble wrote:WTF is going on with corners? Two teams leaving 3 men up against our own,

Did any of these 2 x 3 forwards score against us on the breakaway? Did we concede at either post from any corner against us in either game? I don't know, but I know why Coyle does it. I'm interested to know what the stats are.

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:59 pm

boltonboris wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??

Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.

boltonboris · Post by **boltonboris** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:01 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
boltonboris wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??
Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.

I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runs

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:13 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:
boltonboris wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??
Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.
I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runs

I agree - and there are players that are absolutely no use defending around the box anyway - petrov, for one, so for corners why not leave him up for an out ball - he can at least run with it for 20yds while everyone else gets their breath back...

Wandering Willy · Post by **Wandering Willy** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:50 pm

I'd leave Jussi up.

Tombwfc · Post by **Tombwfc** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:14 am

thebish wrote:
boltonboris wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:
boltonboris wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.

Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??
Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.
I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runs
I agree - and there are players that are absolutely no use defending around the box anyway - petrov, for one, so for corners why not leave him up for an out ball - he can at least run with it for 20yds while everyone else gets their breath back...

Presuming that the clearance gets to him, and he can hold it up to any great effect. Otherwise it's just coming back anyway, and we've less people in the box.

I think since we've started doing it, we've conceded very few goals from corners, and fewer from cleared corners coming back into the box. I don't think Petrov being stood on the half-way line would've stopped Barry's goal, for example.

Lord Kangana · Post by **Lord Kangana** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:21 am

I'm not convinced that he has to get the ball to be of value. He might rush the defenders punt back into the box, might force them to leave more men back.

As above, whilst I'm not for leaving 3 up, I don't see what use Petrov is at corners for us. Might aswell keep him out of harms way on the halfway line.

Prufrock · Post by **Prufrock** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:44 am

It's all well and good saying Coyle and Allardyce used to bring everyone back, but the bloke who introduce leaving three up when defending corners was one Mr Mourinho. Yesterday old red nose left three up. If you have players who aren't going to win headers, but are quick, you might as well. They might not score but they give us an outlet, stop the ball coming back, and that may well lead to goals. You don;t have to score goals directly from it for it to make a difference. It depends on the players. For me, as others have said, there is no point having Petrov defending them, so why not leave him up, that means they have to leave two back. Even if he doesn't score, he might relieve pressure. He definitely isn't going to have any effect in and around our box.

Lofthouse Lower · Post by **Lofthouse Lower** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:49 am

It's fuc king bollocks and I don't like it.

Bruno3 · Post by **Bruno3** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:22 am

Wandering Willy wrote:I'd leave Jussi up.

Athers · Post by **Athers** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:21 pm

May as well take my bit from the match thread on this

Not normally one to moan about having everyone back for a corner, but at 3-0 up United still had 3 men on half way - De Gea gets it, one punt up the pitch and United nearly score from the Keystone Cops stuff. From the resulting corner we're 3-0 down but still have everyone back... Even given that mass of defenders, Nani is still allowed to saunter into the middle of the box, they have another unmarked on the edge and yet another unmarked far post who scores easily. Come on guys!

Athers · Post by **Athers** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:44 pm

Been away on a stag weekend so missed the game but I see Norwich's first goal had a man stood unmarked where Hernandez scored against us the week before.

Is that now 4 corners and 1 wide free kick we've conceded from in last 4 games, everyone back or not something's not right.

bobo the clown · Post by **bobo the clown** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:00 pm

Bruno3 wrote:
Wandering Willy wrote:I'd leave Jussi up.

ditto. Brilliant. Wish it wasn't so true.

bobo the clown · Post by **bobo the clown** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:08 pm

The all 11 back tactic was discussed ata fans forum. Coyle defended it vigouously on the statistical basis ... " we statistically let in very few " sort of thing. He didn't respond to the "what about the 2nd & 3rd phase". Clearly, even if it's only one left up, it allows 2 less attackers at you & can avoid the opponents gaining any clearance being quite so inevitable.

Plenty do it .... many who have a clue .... but I just don't understand why it is seen so one dimensionally. It's good to see some teams refusing to.

hisroyalgingerness · Post by **hisroyalgingerness** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 pm

I just find it odd that we're the home team and we have 11 men in the box, and the last two games we've had away teams have 2 or 3 left up

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