Coyle - Time to go? [post-Everton]

[Loyal White]

Can we keep this BWFCI please? The one who posts sensible reasoned thought rather than the one that compared Coyle to cancer...

[BWFC_Insane]

BWFCi needs no fecking encouragement!!! stoppit now!!!

Well i thought he gave me a good, thoughtful, concise and interesting answer!

So did I. Like many I long since tired of the OC v GM, Poster A v Poster B squabbles, but that was an interesting read prompted by an honest (outsider's) question.

I think it's completely beyond dispute that OC has been given more lassitude or leeway than Megson, who was to say the least an unpopular decision. True, it might only have been the odd knobhead brandishing bedsheets at his first game, but it set the tone, and anger was never far away. From where I sit, Megson didn't help himself with his bristlingly negative persona and cautiously defensive mindset - but then from where I sit, Sammy Lee hadn't helped himself with his bubblingly optimistic persona and naively attacking mindset, a pattern which appears to be repeating itself with the current manager.

In truth, BWFCi was saying long before most that "If a Megson team had done that...". I think much of the vitriol aimed at BWFCi is soured adrenaline from OC's promising early days – the realisation that yes, things have gone horribly wrong, just as predicted. Of course, there's then always the issue of appearing to harp on, or to pipe up only when occasion suits - known is some parts as the Peter Thompson Phenomenon.

But it's hard not to be hated when your doom-laden prophesies are proved right. Look what happened to Cassandra. At least we aren't going to be in Europe and come up against Ajax...

I think a lot of this is right and as a fully paid up member of the grumpy owd gits club, I think BWFCI is getting generally some unfair stick from people who despite all the evidence to the contrary seem to think all in the garden's rosy, or the best we're going to get.

If that's so, I'd rather go out kicking and screaming and telling the blind buggers "told you", than just accepting the status quo. They're far too happy.

I do take one issue with BWFCI. The myth that the squad was aging and running out of legs, so he replaced it with shiny and new. The average age of the squad under Megson increased from the one he inherited. People forget how young Hunt, Nolan, Diouf etc. were and by the time Megson finished, Jussi, Davo etc. were a couple of years older too.

Im not saying Megson replaced all ageing with youth. He lost some to age, but others to just, well shitness and some just wandered off like Diouf...

One of the main failings of Megson was he spent the money on solid if not spectacular mid twenties players, which from a future perspective wasn't great.

Having said that one of the issues with Allardyce was his method was always a short term fix rather than owt else.

Perhaps we don't have the ability at a club our size to look long and short term. There are a lot of similarities between the language Coyle uses here and that which Southgate used at Boro. They are both probably right about the way to play, the long term planning and introduction of youth, but you can't afford all that if you don't keep yourselves in the top flight!

[Worthy4England]

I don't think there's much "perhaps" about it. We need to have 11-15 players that are right for today otherwise we aren't that safe as a prem team that we can afford to have the odd off-season and stay up.

2008/9, Liverpool finished 2nd. 2009/10 when they were doing some "rebuilding" they dropped to 7th. We drop on that scale, we're down a division. So we don't have the same leeway.

I don't concur with your view that Allardyce's method was always short term fix rather than owt else. Buying a 23 yo forward that "might be good" in a few years isn't a sound decision for such a key position, unless you have two other forwards that are scoring. They've pretty much got to be able to perform the minute they get picked to play. What is "short term fix"? getting a couple (or three of four) seasons out of someone with Djorkaeff's/Speed's/Campo's class isn't "short term" in my opinion. If they were near that class and 23, they wouldn't be coming to Bolton.

[Prufrock]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

nope. i remember being bored enough with what was on show by the end of Allardyce's time to cut down on the amount of games i went to and i had more disposable cash back then. No revision there.
i also agree that the immediate jumping on the bandwagon of slagging off certain posters (PT and BWFCi mainly) to be the most singularly unattractive feature of these boards.

there, that's told you!

[BWFC_Insane]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

[Hoboh]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

Thats a change for you

[thebish]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

plus the fact that in the weeks/months leading up to his departure we were sinking like a stone... (or is that a false memory?)

[Worthy4England]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

The thought that when Allardyce moved on, we didn't have a team of 16 year old Wayne Rooney's sat in the academy kicking their heels waiting to break into the first team and keep us in the top 8, is fatally flawed.

I haven't seen us bringing any through since.

Would be interesting to see how many Fulham have brought through, or Jackburn over the same timeframe - I suspect the answer would be not a lot.

[Worthy4England]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

plus the fact that in the weeks/months leading up to his departure we were sinking like a stone... (or is that a false memory?)

Not a false one, but probably tempered by the comparison with our pre-Christmas form that had us sat in 3rd place when we went to Liverpool on the 3rd Jan on 39 points from 21 games.

We ended up on 56 from 38, so 17 points from the last 17 games.

Most of the talk since that period has been whether we're capable of a point a game. Right now we'd be delighted.

[Lord Kangana]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

Well I think that we've found to our cost that firstly throwing money at the problem neither improved the quality of the football nor our league standings, and secondly then having to deal with that deficit and concentrating on youthful signings has not bourne fruit either.

And the levels of dissatisfaction with all subsequent managers has reached a much higher pitch than with Allardyce.

But its all a bit silly arguing about how Allardyce left the club. It was how the club then handled recruiting his successors that really screwed us over.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

See, I'm glad GG asked now...

[Lord Kangana]

Wll it would seem to defeat the object of a football forum if we don't discuss things. On a football-related theme.

[CAPSLOCK]

Has he gone yet?

[Prufrock]

After everyone of those top 8 finishes you could have said we had an ageing, no money, and that it would be a real uphill struggle, yet each year Allardyce got us in the top 8 again. JSL.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's funny how Allardyce's revisionist 'short term' success which almost everyone (no-one I remember) was sick of lead to the only consistent top 8 finish outside the 'big four'. Everyone else building short term (4 years) then?

He didn't leave us with any sort of a half decent youth setup, there was no legacy when Sam walked out so did pretty much any chance of a top 8 finish.

I'm not criticising him my point being he did what he had to, so we stayed up and more.....


And look back over forums at that time and yes folk were bored of the football, in hindsight they'd all take him back, but still at the time there was a level of dissatisfaction!

Well I think that we've found to our cost that firstly throwing money at the problem neither improved the quality of the football nor our league standings, and secondly then having to deal with that deficit and concentrating on youthful signings has not bourne fruit either.

And the levels of dissatisfaction with all subsequent managers has reached a much higher pitch than with Allardyce.

But its all a bit silly arguing about how Allardyce left the club. It was how the club then handled recruiting his successors that really screwed us over.

See I agree. I think the question is whether Sam felt he couldn't continue with the same method as the market was drying up or whether he was genuinely just bored.

For us he was a world class manager and probably in hindsight impossible to replace for us....

Having said that we gave him chances other clubs wouldnt....

[bwfc]

Enough is enough

Heard a rumour he is getting sacked.

I hope so!!!!

[Choppers]

I'd imagine he'd have a worse record than Megson at this point? We have lost how many games this season? Why is he so special that he's untouchable?

I was hoping Kean would be sacked before our game with them, so we could have him - he's a decent coach imho, with a team that has had some incredibly bad luck.

[CrazyHorse]

I was hoping Kean would be sacked before our game with them, so we could have him - he's a decent coach imho, with a team that has had some incredibly bad luck.

Do yourself a favour, stop drinking petrol.

[officer_dibble]

My understanding is he now cant match the start megson made pointswise when he was sacked at halfway point. Writing has to be on the wall!