Contract expiry

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:39 pm

Sorry. Which one was Adam Armstrong?
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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 pm
Ameobi
I’d offer him a Madine type rise
With a release clause, say £6mil, or half if relegated. Surely we have to try and make some money off these guys if we are to survive as a club. Cant keep the short term recycle the squad approach up!
Would you sign a new deal at Bolton now, knowing that if you have a good half of the season you're a free agent able to earn a big signing on fee and bumper wage at a club of your choosing?

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:39 pm
Sorry. Which one was Adam Armstrong?
Wee Geordie lad up top. Looked like they all do these days - floppy hair, short at the sides, scraggy beard. 14 league starts plus six appearances off the bench. Played on the left in autumn when we switched back to 4231. Missed an open goal at Fulham (albeit only a fleeting chance from 45 yards, but still).

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:11 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 pm
Ameobi
I’d offer him a Madine type rise
With a release clause, say £6mil, or half if relegated. Surely we have to try and make some money off these guys if we are to survive as a club. Cant keep the short term recycle the squad approach up!
Would you sign a new deal at Bolton now, knowing that if you have a good half of the season you're a free agent able to earn a big signing on fee and bumper wage at a club of your choosing?
Assuming he stays fit of course....

It isn't all one way. If he was to suffer an injury that kept him out for a few months at some point in March or April then from July 1st he is out of commission without, at least in theory, a club to supervise his recuperation. If he is having a good time here as he suggests, there must be an amount where it makes sense for him to sign, knowing he will get his big, career changing move anyway if he continues playing well, and at least his career is secure for the next few years?

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:21 pm

Didn't work out for him at Newcastle. Didn't work out for him at Boro. Didn't work out for him at Cardiff. Seems to like it here. His brother speaks highly of the club too. Sammy strikes me as a guy who needs an arm round the shoulders, and not the sort to strike out and seek his fortune.

I think he'd like to stay if we avoid relegation (and he might even fancy it if we don't). Obviously others might be interested and we'd have to make a big decision as to how much to pay him, but I would trust us not to go daft financially, and I'm not overly terrified of other clubs turning his head. He's a good bloke and one of our best players but I can't imagine dozens of richer clubs squabbling over him.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:21 pm
Didn't work out for him at Newcastle. Didn't work out for him at Boro. Didn't work out for him at Cardiff. Seems to like it here. His brother speaks highly of the club too. Sammy strikes me as a guy who needs an arm round the shoulders, and not the sort to strike out and seek his fortune.

I think he'd like to stay if we avoid relegation (and he might even fancy it if we don't). Obviously others might be interested and we'd have to make a big decision as to how much to pay him, but I would trust us not to go daft financially, and I'm not overly terrified of other clubs turning his head. He's a good bloke and one of our best players but I can't imagine dozens of richer clubs squabbling over him.
Probably Madine was in the same boat a few months back.

Reality is that if someone offers you double your salary, even if the sensible thing to do is stay put, its hard to turn down.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:40 pm

Oh, indeed. But I don't think anyone will.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:40 pm
Oh, indeed. But I don't think anyone will.
If we stay up and he has a good second half of the season with a few goals (which one suspects will be a condition of staying up) - he'd be free. And I think plenty would take him for a decent salary on a free. Madine after 10 championship goals went for 6M and double his salary. Ameobi is younger and wouldn't currently incur any transfer fee.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Yep, possibly. But I refuse to worry about it. If we stay up and he's scored some goals, I'll be happy. Yes, we may have to replace him (although I still doubt it), but that's OK, life goes on. I utterly refuse to live in abject bowel-liquidising terror of impending doom. Que sera sera.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:55 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:47 pm
Yep, possibly. But I refuse to worry about it. If we stay up and he's scored some goals, I'll be happy. Yes, we may have to replace him (although I still doubt it), but that's OK, life goes on. I utterly refuse to live in abject bowel-liquidising terror of impending doom. Que sera sera.
My point was more (or initially) that it makes zero sense for him to sign a new deal now. Barring injury, he'll still get one here or elsewhere in the summer and the likelihood is he can earn more than we'll offer him.

Its easy to say "sign him up". Ameobi and his agent will have a different world view. You cannot force players to sign.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Agreed. And personally I quite like the fact that, as per the list, we’ll have 13 senior pros out of contract in summer: they’re all playing for their futures, and that can only help them work their arses off for the badge. Meanwhile, we can cut our cloth according to what division we’re in; should we go down, we’ll only have nine existing contracts to honour so we shouldn’t sink under the weight of debt. Not only would it be daft for Sammy to sign a Big New Contract now, it’d be daft for us to offer it without knowing what division we’re in next year. That’s the kind of thinking that has saddled us with Ben Bloody Amos.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:23 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:02 pm
Agreed. And personally I quite like the fact that, as per the list, we’ll have 13 senior pros out of contract in summer: they’re all playing for their futures, and that can only help them work their arses off for the badge. Meanwhile, we can cut our cloth according to what division we’re in; should we go down, we’ll only have nine existing contracts to honour so we shouldn’t sink under the weight of debt. Not only would it be daft for Sammy to sign a Big New Contract now, it’d be daft for us to offer it without knowing what division we’re in next year. That’s the kind of thinking that has saddled us with Ben Bloody Amos.
Its good for Ken and the moneymen for sure.

For Parky, and fans wanting to see progress, its not a good situation to continually be in.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:35 pm

I don't mind us having some players contracted beyond the present season. We've got nine, including Josh Vela and, until last week, Gary Madine. But we've also got Stephen Darby and Craig Noone. There's your risk, right there.

To a greater or lesser extent, all clubs manage this contractual juggling act. Until they signed Giroud, Chelsea would only offer one-year contracts to thirtysomething stars, including names like Lampard and Terry. The days of doling out four-year contracts – or three-year deals to thirtysomethings (as Gartside/Coyle did) – are well behind us, and thankfully so much the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not necessarily "progress" to risk the club's future on the fitness and form of players. Ask Mark Davies's knee surgeon.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:37 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:35 pm
I don't mind us having some players contracted beyond the present season. We've got nine, including Josh Vela and, until last week, Gary Madine. But we've also got Stephen Darby and Craig Noone. There's your risk, right there.

To a greater or lesser extent, all clubs manage this contractual juggling act. Until they signed Giroud, Chelsea would only offer one-year contracts to thirtysomething stars, including names like Lampard and Terry. The days of doling out four-year contracts – or three-year deals to thirtysomethings (as Gartside/Coyle did) – are well behind us, and thankfully so much the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not necessarily "progress" to risk the club's future on the fitness and form of players. Ask Mark Davies's knee surgeon.
Its ok when come the end of the season you have adequate resources to recruit the best players, including re-recruiting what you have.

When you're scraping the bottom of the barrel and losing your better players frequently, at some point it catches up with you and you can't maintain on pitch progress.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:39 pm

If you pay more money than you can afford after relegation, you're not maintaining progress, you're threatening the club's existence.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 am

Wee Geordie lad up top. Looked like they all do these days - floppy hair, short at the sides, scraggy beard.
That's the rascal. Nowt in the end product drawer.

As perhaps the biggest digression ever entered into on this forum, but I've just remembered to ask you; are you familiar with a band called Seazoo?
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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:48 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 am

Wee Geordie lad up top. Looked like they all do these days - floppy hair, short at the sides, scraggy beard.
That's the rascal. Nowt in the end product drawer.

As perhaps the biggest digression ever entered into on this forum, but I've just remembered to ask you; are you familiar with a band called Seazoo?
No. Recommended?

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:56 am

Forgot to add in post-window signings of Edu & Jan.

2018
Mark Howard
Ben Alnwick
Mark Beevers
David Wheater*
Dorian Dervite*
Reece Burke (half-season loan from West Ham, where he's contracted until 2020)
Derik Osede
Antonee Robinson (season loan from Everton, where he's contracted until 2019)
Jon Flanagan (half-season loan from Liverpool, where he's contracted until 2018 with an optional one-year extension)
Karl Henry
Jan Kirchhoff
Alex Perry (pro; presumably a one-year deal but not stated; as of late December, is on one-month work-experience loan at Glossop North End)
Jem Karacan*
Darren Pratley
Harry Charsley (half-season loan from Everton, where he's contracted until 2019)
Filipe Morais*
Chris Taylor
Sammy Ameobi
Aaron Wilbraham
Zach Clough (half-season loan from Nottingham Forest, where he's contracted until 2021)
Tyler Walker (half-season loan from Nottingham Forest, where he's contracted until 2021)
Chinedu Obasi
Jeff King (pro)
Connor Hall (pro)
Third-year scholars: Harry Brockbank, Jack Earing, Cole Lonsdale, Ryan White

2019
Ben Amos
Jake Turner (pro)
Mark Little
Stephen Darby
Andrew Taylor
Josh Vela
Will Buckley
Craig Noone
Adam Le Fondre*

Contracts until June unless otherwise stated. Corrections and clarifications (with citations) always welcome.
* - deals known to have extension "options"
"pro" - youngsters on professional deals rather than scholarships


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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:54 pm

OK, high time I updated this lot.

RELEASED
Mark Howard
Dorian Dervite
Derik Osede
Karl Henry
Jan Kirchhoff
Jem Karacan
Darren Pratley
Chris Taylor
Aaron Wilbraham
Chinedu Obasi
Jeff King
Cole Lonsdale, Ryan White (third-year scholars)

LOANS EXPIRED
Reece Burke (contracted until 2020 at West Ham)
Antonee Robinson (contracted until 2019 at Everton)
Jon Flanagan (since released by Liverpool)
Harry Charsley (contracted until 2019 at Everton)
Zach Clough (contracted until 2021 at Forest)
Tyler Walker (contracted until 2021 at Forest)

UNDECIDED/UNKNOWN
Filipe Morais
Sammy Ameobi
Alex Perry (pro)
Harry Brockbank, Jack Earing (scholars)

2019
Ben Amos
Jake Turner (pro)
Mark Beevers
David Wheater
Mark Little
Stephen Darby
Andrew Taylor
Josh Vela
Will Buckley
Craig Noone
Connor Hall (pro)
Adam Le Fondre*

2020
Ben Alnwick
Jason Lowe

Contracts until June unless otherwise stated. Corrections and clarifications (with citations) always welcome.
* - deals known to have extension "options"
"pro" - youngsters on professional deals rather than scholarships


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Re: Contract expiry

Post by knobpolisher » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:51 am

Jeez when you look at the stark reality of that list it makes one realise how few players we have on contract.
Best get my boots dusted off.
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