Contract expiry

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:30 pm
"We all dream of a team of Harry Brockbanks, a team of Harry Brockbanks"
"Harry Brockbank is our mate, is our mate, is our mate
Harry Brockbank is our mate, he hates Wigan"

(Not many who sang it at Gillingham will have clocked the similarity of those words with a 1960s variant which popped up around Shepherd's Bush... in the bad old days of brooding terrace violence and police treating football fans like pondlife, "Harry Roberts" didn't half wind up the plod...)

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:36 pm

Liam Edwards renews to 2022. Good lad.
CODE: SELECT ALL JANUARY 2020
Josh Earl (loan from PNE, where he's contracted to June 2021)
Jake Wright (loan from Sheffield United, where he's contracted to Jun 2020)
Liam Bridcutt (loan from Forest, where he's contracted to Jun 2020)
Will Buckley
Thibaud Verlinden (loan from Stoke, where he's contracted to Jun 2022)

JUNE 2020
Ben Alnwick
(Presumably) Remi Matthews
Josh Emmanuel
Jack Hobbs
Yoan Zouma (pro, 06/05/98, centre-back)
Joe Bunney
Jordan Boon (3rd year scholar, 26/11/00, left-back)
Jason Lowe
Luke Murphy
James Weir
Ali Crawford
Ronan Darcy (3rd year scholar, 4/11/00, att mid)
(Presumably) Dennis Politic (pro, 05/03/00, winger)
Chris O'Grady
Daryl Murphy
Connor Hall (pro, 18/02/98, striker)
Eddie Brown (3rd year scholar, 27/11/00, striker)

JUNE 2021
Harry Brockbank (pro, 26/09/98, centre-back/right-back)

JUNE 2022
Liam Edwards (pro, 02/10/96, centre-back)
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:16 pm

This is quite a significant development, handing out a three year contract. A very good sign on a day of good signs...

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:35 pm

On a different thread, Branagan wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:24 am
Of all those that made the infant XI at the start of this season, Politic and Brockbank plus maybe Zouma and Edwards are the only ones that anyone would want starting week in week out. Not sure what other clubs do but, when you consider those 3/4 alongside Clough, Vela and Holding, as DSB said, we aren't getting a bad return. What? Roughly one first teamer a year on average?
Plenty of time for some of them. Hill has mentioned in usual talkative style (YouTube, quoted by Iles) that U23s football isn't helping, and I see his point, but I think there's a danger of hsi words being taken out of context. I've said it before but I think there's also the danger (from fans rather than management) of lumping in The Kids as one great mass, when they're not. Some are better than others, but some are older than others.

Ronan Darcy is 18, and a third-year scholar rather than a professional, so he needn't necessarily be chucked on the scrapheap if he's not a first-team regular by the end of the season. Whereas for Chiori Johnson, who we signed from Arsenal last summer, turned 21 in October so he was more on his last knockings - and so it has proved, because he's now left us and is without a club. Similar for Joe Pritchard, who turned 22 last autumn and then left us for Accy this summer.

Hill's right to an extent that there's now an extended "kidulthood" with players who are too good for "junior" football but not breaking into first teams. That's why the ceiling was raised from U21 to U23, to try to keep them competitive - but again, as Hill rightly says, junior fixtures will never match the cut and thrust of the adult game.

By necessity youth football features abritrary cut-offs, calendrical accidents. The danger, accidentally worsened by our hastened elevation of U18s into the seniors, is lumping them all together. While I'm glad to see Liam Edwards did well early in the season, he's 23 (DOB 02/10/96) and should already be a regular somewhere.

So here's a thought experiment, one I briefly mentioned before, and one which I think might help visualise the differences. Were the upper tiers of our academy a secondary school, Edwards would be a fifth-year pupil when Darcy (4/11/00), Brown (26/11/00) and Boon (27/11/00) were wet-eared new kids with ties ironed by their mothers. On the same scale, Connor Hall (18/02/98) and Yoan Zouma (06/05/98) would be fourth years, and Harry Brockbank (26/09/98) would be captain of the third-year First XI.

In the year underneath the Darcy/Brown/Boon "first years", and presumably thoroughly enjoying their last year of primary school in a really good team, would be De'Marlio Brown-Sterling (12/09/01), Adam Senior (20/01/02), Joe White (18/01/02), Callum King-Harmes (19/04/02), Matt Alexander (07/05/02) and Sonny Graham (10/06/02). In the year below them would be Regan Riley (12/11/02, second-half sub at Tranmere) and Finlay Hurford-Lockett (10/04/03, sub against Cov, Rochdale and Ipswich) plus Jay Fitzmartin, who came on against Bradford and seems to have been born in late 2002 judging by various internet factettes.

Occasionally you get somebody breaking out of that timescale – Dennis Politic (05/03/00) would be in our hypothetical second year, as would Thibaud Verlinden (09/07/00). But such players are outliers, and while we want to make men out of boys, our patience with them should vary according to their ages. Only seems fair.

YOOTS IN AGE ORDER:

Liam Edwards (pro, 02/10/96, centre-back)
---
Connor Hall (pro, 18/02/98, striker)
Yoan Zouma (pro, 06/05/98, centre-back)
---
Harry Brockbank (pro, 26/09/98, centre-back/right-back)
---
---
Dennis Politic (pro, 05/03/00, winger)
Thibaud Verlinden (09/07/00)
---
Ronan Darcy (3rd year scholar, 4/11/00, att mid)
Jordan Boon (3rd year scholar, 26/11/00, left-back)
Eddie Brown (3rd year scholar, 27/11/00, striker)
---
De'Marlio Brown-Sterling (12/09/01)
Adam Senior (20/01/02)
Joe White (18/01/02)
Callum King-Harmes (19/04/02)
Matt Alexander (07/05/02)
Sonny Graham (10/06/02)
---
Regan Riley (12/11/02)
Finlay Hurford-Lockett (10/04/03)
Jay Fitzmartin (was 16 on July 2 2019, therefore 03/07/02 to 01/07/03)

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:19 pm

@DSB I get your point - don't write all the kids off.

But isn't Hill's point that in majority of cases if you are going to make it you are in the side at Darcy's age? And not just because you are thrown in but because you are knocking on door loud enough?

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:41 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:19 pm
@DSB I get your point - don't write all the kids off.

But isn't Hill's point that in majority of cases if you are going to make it you are in the side at Darcy's age? And not just because you are thrown in but because you are knocking on door loud enough?
He was twenty seven in Pride and Prejudice....just thought I'd mention it.... :wink:
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:19 pm
@DSB I get your point - don't write all the kids off.

But isn't Hill's point that in majority of cases if you are going to make it you are in the side at Darcy's age? And not just because you are thrown in but because you are knocking on door loud enough?
If that is his point, I think he's wrong. We're not in a position to be ignoring players over the age of 18. Vela didn't become a regular till the season he was 21, Clough 20; whatever their eventual "level", it would have been self-evidently stupid to have released them before then.

Players develop at different rates. I'll be glad if Hill sends more of them on properly developmental loans, like Politic did to Salford. That's made the lad more likely to succeed than, say, Chiori Johnson, only ever playing U23 football. But maybe it's the other way round: if a player isn't good enough to thrive on loan, either he doesn't get sent out or nobody wants him. It's a tough business, but expecting fully-formed player at 18 won't make it any easier.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:01 pm

Sonny Graham looked developed enough tonight. Certainly not eased off the ball at all.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:28 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:01 pm
Sonny Graham looked developed enough tonight. Certainly not eased off the ball at all.
Excellent news. Lad's only just turned 17, so he's plenty of time to establish himself.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:07 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:28 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:01 pm
Sonny Graham looked developed enough tonight. Certainly not eased off the ball at all.
Excellent news. Lad's only just turned 17, so he's plenty of time to establish himself.
IMO he's our best prospect in this group. Hill seemed to suggest he'd be in and around the first team now.

He stood out for me in the games I've seen him play this year.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:49 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:07 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:28 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:01 pm
Sonny Graham looked developed enough tonight. Certainly not eased off the ball at all.
Excellent news. Lad's only just turned 17, so he's plenty of time to establish himself.
IMO he's our best prospect in this group. Hill seemed to suggest he'd be in and around the first team now.

He stood out for me in the games I've seen him play this year.
I've only seen one minute of him - for some reason, he replaced Hobbs in the 89th at Gillingham.

I note his inclusion pushed Bridcutt into the backline last night, which kind of makes sense - Bridcutt often drops that deep anyway, so I can see why Hill/Flicker dropped him in there. Does this mean Graham's an anchorman type? We could certainly do with cover for Bridcutt, who has been impressive but tires and, I suspect, will pick up a card or two. I'd be interested to see if the newly revived J-Lowe could play there in a much more forward-thinking way than he did under the last boss, but we could still do with developing the kids.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:56 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:07 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:28 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:01 pm
Sonny Graham looked developed enough tonight. Certainly not eased off the ball at all.
Excellent news. Lad's only just turned 17, so he's plenty of time to establish himself.
IMO he's our best prospect in this group. Hill seemed to suggest he'd be in and around the first team now.

He stood out for me in the games I've seen him play this year.
I've only seen one minute of him - for some reason, he replaced Hobbs in the 89th at Gillingham.

I note his inclusion pushed Bridcutt into the backline last night, which kind of makes sense - Bridcutt often drops that deep anyway, so I can see why Hill/Flicker dropped him in there. Does this mean Graham's an anchorman type? We could certainly do with cover for Bridcutt, who has been impressive but tires and, I suspect, will pick up a card or two. I'd be interested to see if the newly revived J-Lowe could play there in a much more forward-thinking way than he did under the last boss, but we could still do with developing the kids.
When I've seen him he's anchored the midfield yes. Seems good on the ball. I'm sure Hill will have him more mobile than the totally sitting midfield role he played for PP and JP though.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:28 am

Be interesting to see how quickly we can tie Graham to a long term deal. Let’s not have another Luca.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:14 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:28 am
Be interesting to see how quickly we can tie Graham to a long term deal. Let’s not have another Luca.
Here, Sonny, you haven't put your name on your homework. That's it, just on that dotted line.
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That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: Contract expiry

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:00 am

Forgot to add Joe Dodoo. Soz, Joe.

JANUARY 2020
Josh Earl (loan from PNE, where he's contracted to June 2021)
Jake Wright (loan from Sheffield United, where he's contracted to Jun 2020)
Liam Bridcutt (loan from Forest, where he's contracted to Jun 2020)
Will Buckley
Thibaud Verlinden (loan from Stoke, where he's contracted to Jun 2022)

JUNE 2020
Ben Alnwick
(Presumably) Remi Matthews
Josh Emmanuel
Jack Hobbs
Yoan Zouma (pro, 06/05/98, centre-back)
Joe Bunney
Jordan Boon (3rd year scholar, 26/11/00, left-back)
Jason Lowe
Luke Murphy
James Weir
Ali Crawford
Ronan Darcy (3rd year scholar, 4/11/00, att mid)
(Presumably) Dennis Politic (pro, 05/03/00, winger)
Joe Dodoo
Chris O'Grady
Daryl Murphy
Connor Hall (pro, 18/02/98, striker)
Eddie Brown (3rd year scholar, 27/11/00, striker)

JUNE 2021
Harry Brockbank (pro, 26/09/98, centre-back/right-back)

JUNE 2022
Liam Edwards (pro, 02/10/96, centre-back)

By the way, that's 25 players, but three are only on scholarship deals, so that makes 22.

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