Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

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Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Dr.Karl » Tue May 15, 2012 8:17 pm

I've just heard Gartside interview on Talksport from the other thread. I really wanted to start another thread because it pertains to what he said during that which makes me think we run the club not to the maximum potential.

Firstly he talks about this board as being the right people for the job. A board that has been there for 25+ years. Been through the divisions. Are they the right people for the job? The landscape of football has changed at the top in the last 25 years nevermind through the divisions. Would they say be competing for board jobs at a well run FTSE 100 company? It seems an old blazers mentality that the FA seem to have. Not one of a progressive modern football club. Its nice that they're all Bolton fans but if we're paying Gartside a reported £300k a year wouldn't you want the best person for the job.

He then talks about Coyle. “Owen is going to be our manager for a long time to come and he is going to be successful". What is that actually based on, the fact that you've known him for 15 years and not his bizarre tactical decisions? The evidence before us tells us that he consistently makes wrong decisions on the pitch. The results have reflected this. Again it almost seems a pally pally mentality. Nepotism(or whatever the equivalent is when you hire friends) is alive and well.

I know there was a debate on the Tim Ream story and it had some comedey value in it. But it epitomized our unprofessionalism. There is no way that would happen to a high paying exec being head hunted. He's a high paying footballer doesn't cut especially when you consider what he was eating. I llike jogging but if I eat Nando's and McDonalds for weeks my 5k times would suffer. I can't imagime how it affect an elite athelete where fine margins are concerned.

And the manager himself has displayed the most unprofessional attitude when it comes to minute details of preparing for a game. How can he in all honestly look at himself in the mirror and say I prepared for that game in the best manner possible. I know we seem to be harking back to golden era of Alladryce but he laid a blue print that all managers at the football club could follow. It was all in place, we seemed to have a competitive advantage to teams around us by the preparation and research that he put in. Lee, Megson and Coyle could have easily followed this. It should have been institutionalised at the club. All that sports science stuff has been wasted and when you look at how we've flagged in the last 10 minutes of games and it seems a crucial reason of why we're down by one point. So are we unprofessional?
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by H. Pedersen » Tue May 15, 2012 8:26 pm

What was the Tim Ream story?

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Dr.Karl » Tue May 15, 2012 8:28 pm

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23377" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thread on the story. It was really amusing but infuriating at the same time.
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue May 15, 2012 8:42 pm

Experience is that property of life that enables us to recognise a mistake the second time we make it.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by H. Pedersen » Tue May 15, 2012 9:00 pm

Ah. Well, yes, that’s pretty unprofessional.

I feel like a profound sense of inertia has crept into the club. Nobody wants to rock the boat or make changes or suggest that maybe relegation is a sign that something is being done wrong.

It really makes you appreciate what an innovator and a hard worker Allardyce was. The health treatments, the pre-match preparation, the complicated negotiations, the liaisons for players . . . all of that was forgotten when Lee and Megson and now Coyle came to us. Megson was able to buy his way out of trouble. Once we ran out of money we were doomed.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue May 15, 2012 9:11 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:It really makes you appreciate what an innovator and a hard worker Allardyce was.
Agree with that.

Personally, I never forgave Gartside for the CC ticket fiasco but I would always give him credit for being at the helm of the clubs most successful period in my lieftime, and his hiring & support of Sam. I do wonder now though, if the reputation he got within the game and the FA was mainly as a result of him piggy backing on Allardyces achievements.

His comments when Sam left re: him not being worthy of an interview if he were to apply now, beggared belief. Particularly when you remember the two he hired afterwards!
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by H. Pedersen » Tue May 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:Personally, I never forgave Gartside for the CC ticket fiasco but I would always give him credit for being at the helm of the clubs most successful period in my lieftime, and his hiring & support of Sam. I do wonder now though, if the reputation he got within the game and the FA was mainly as a result of him piggy backing on Allardyces achievements.
Yeah. Seems like he once made a gamble on Allardyce that paid off and he can claim no major accomplishments since.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 15, 2012 9:43 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:Personally, I never forgave Gartside for the CC ticket fiasco but I would always give him credit for being at the helm of the clubs most successful period in my lieftime, and his hiring & support of Sam. I do wonder now though, if the reputation he got within the game and the FA was mainly as a result of him piggy backing on Allardyces achievements.
Yeah. Seems like he once made a gamble on Allardyce that paid off and he can claim no major accomplishments since.
Totally disagree. When Allardyce left he made a mistake in appointing Lee, but quickly rectified it and his appointment kept us up for two years. Then when that went wrong he got Coyle in who kept us up again.

Allardyce was a one off and indeed we were a one off for him. He's not exactly replicated what he did here elsewhere. And whenever he makes his case we are always his major example.

As much as I think Coyle should have gone in November or earlier, Gartside is ultimately carrying out the orders of Eddie Davies. We may disagree with decisions, but I think to suggest a man who has lead a club to 11 years of premiership football when it had spent the best part of 20 years in the wilderness has just struck lucky with one appointment and had no major achievements since is a bit ott.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by H. Pedersen » Tue May 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Megson kept the club up by spending money we didn’t have. I’m not impressed by this, for the same reason I’m not impressed by anything Harry Redknapp has ever done.

Coyle had about 6 months of good results. Once he lost Elmander (one of the players we couldn’t afford), and once the shock factor of Bolton playing 4-4-2 wore off, we were immediately relegated. Again, where is the accomplishment here?

Also the Carling Cup, the fax in the pocket, the bridge-burning with Allardyce, the tweet directed at Wenger . . .

You’re right though, it’s ultimately up to Eddie Davies, and doesn’t really seem to care what happens at the club. Shame that Gartside hasn’t pushed himself beyond those low standards lately.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:Megson kept the club up by spending money we didn’t have. I’m not impressed by this, for the same reason I’m not impressed by anything Harry Redknapp has ever done.

Coyle had about 6 months of good results. Once he lost Elmander (one of the players we couldn’t afford), and once the shock factor of Bolton playing 4-4-2 wore off, we were immediately relegated. Again, where is the accomplishment here?

Also the Carling Cup, the fax in the pocket, the bridge-burning with Allardyce, the tweet directed at Wenger . . .

You’re right though, it’s ultimately up to Eddie Davies, and doesn’t really seem to care what happens at the club. Shame that Gartside hasn’t pushed himself beyond those low standards lately.

We did have the money, Eddie Davies gave it us. Loaned it us. Whatever. We had it. He loaned Allardyce the money to buy Diouf, Anelka, Meite etc. Did we not 'have that' either?

The rest is fairly minor compared to where we were when Gartside took over and what we achieved since.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by midlands exile » Tue May 15, 2012 10:29 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:Ah. Well, yes, that’s pretty unprofessional.

I feel like a profound sense of inertia has crept into the club. Nobody wants to rock the boat or make changes or suggest that maybe relegation is a sign that something is being done wrong.

It really makes you appreciate what an innovator and a hard worker Allardyce was. The health treatments, the pre-match preparation, the complicated negotiations, the liaisons for players . . . all of that was forgotten when Lee and Megson and now Coyle came to us. Megson was able to buy his way out of trouble. Once we ran out of money we were doomed.
I know what you mean. Once upon a time, we seemed to be the epitome of professionalism, all that off-the pitch support and preparation seemed to make such a difference. Now everything seems so amateur.

With all the savings from those mega-bucks contracts expiring, I would love to see some of that reinvested in the back room staff. I reckon for one Paul Robinson off the books, we could sign up a new sports science team, psychologist, fitness trainer, player liaison and revamped scouting system covering both UK and abroad. That would help the performance of our existing players and also boost the likelihood of success of new signings.

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue May 15, 2012 10:53 pm

Maybe thats why we're shedding so many?

It might not be of course, but one lives in hope that relegation is a timely and huge kick up the backside - that we have to get back to thinking outside the box and maximising our resources. We got a bit lazy in throwing money at it, money that would ultimately run dry. A good backroom staff would signal a club heading in the right direction. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue May 15, 2012 10:58 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:What was the Tim Ream story?
Hi HP, welcome back (glad you're not dead).
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by H. Pedersen » Tue May 15, 2012 11:03 pm

I think that's highly optimistic LK.

Thanks Monty. Make it to many Impact games this season?

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue May 15, 2012 11:19 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:I think that's highly optimistic LK.

Thanks Monty. Make it to many Impact games this season?
None so far :oops:
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Riviman » Wed May 16, 2012 9:17 am

H. Pedersen wrote:What was the Tim Ream story?
My understanding from a friend is that Tim Ream was, as all new players to the club who have to relocate, put up in the De Vere Whites Hotel, it was expected that he would spend a lot of his spare time with his USA team mate, Mr Holden, unfortunately Holden's return to the UK was delayed as it was decided that he could continue his rehabilitation training over in Dallas.
This doesn't excuse the club from a seemingly lack of care for Ream and I'm sure the backroom staff weren't too pleased to read/ hear of Tim's comments. Somehow couldn't see that happening when BSA was in charge.
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by bedwetter2 » Wed May 16, 2012 9:25 am

Dr.Karl wrote:I've just heard Gartside interview on Talksport from the other thread. I really wanted to start another thread because it pertains to what he said during that which makes me think we run the club not to the maximum potential.

Firstly he talks about this board as being the right people for the job. A board that has been there for 25+ years. Been through the divisions. Are they the right people for the job? The landscape of football has changed at the top in the last 25 years nevermind through the divisions. Would they say be competing for board jobs at a well run FTSE 100 company? It seems an old blazers mentality that the FA seem to have. Not one of a progressive modern football club. Its nice that they're all Bolton fans but if we're paying Gartside a reported £300k a year wouldn't you want the best person for the job.

He then talks about Coyle. “Owen is going to be our manager for a long time to come and he is going to be successful". What is that actually based on, the fact that you've known him for 15 years and not his bizarre tactical decisions? The evidence before us tells us that he consistently makes wrong decisions on the pitch. The results have reflected this. Again it almost seems a pally pally mentality. Nepotism(or whatever the equivalent is when you hire friends) is alive and well.


I'm in full agreement with this. I can't be bothered to look back at previous posts but I made these very points about a general lack of professionalism through this season and before. It may not mean much to the average football fan who doesn't have the experience of running a commercial business but performance management is absolutely key to getting the best out of a company and it's employees.

BWFC has been managed extremely poorly; not so much different to many football clubs but in absolute terms when compared to companies outside football. There is a closed shop feel and inertia at the club, whether the longevity of serving board members or in the use of 'favoured' football agents. Now I am sure people will say that it is Eddie Davies' perogative whether he wishes the club to remain paternalistic and unmodernised but the poor management has a huge effect on the 'customers', i.e. the supporters. Fresh blood is needed if only to get rid of someone like Gartside making fatuous comments along the lines that Owen Coyle will be here for the foreseeable future, come what may.

I know there was a debate on the Tim Ream story and it had some comedey value in it. But it epitomized our unprofessionalism. There is no way that would happen to a high paying exec being head hunted. He's a high paying footballer doesn't cut especially when you consider what he was eating. I llike jogging but if I eat Nando's and McDonalds for weeks my 5k times would suffer. I can't imagime how it affect an elite athelete where fine margins are concerned.

And the manager himself has displayed the most unprofessional attitude when it comes to minute details of preparing for a game. How can he in all honestly look at himself in the mirror and say I prepared for that game in the best manner possible. I know we seem to be harking back to golden era of Alladryce but he laid a blue print that all managers at the football club could follow. It was all in place, we seemed to have a competitive advantage to teams around us by the preparation and research that he put in. Lee, Megson and Coyle could have easily followed this. It should have been institutionalised at the club. All that sports science stuff has been wasted and when you look at how we've flagged in the last 10 minutes of games and it seems a crucial reason of why we're down by one point. So are we unprofessional?

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by ohjimmyjimmy » Wed May 16, 2012 9:32 am

I'm assuming he had unlimited access to the restaurant & a la carte menu at De Vere Whites hotel?
And maybe even an arse-wiping machine in his hotel room?

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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed May 16, 2012 10:10 am

ohjimmyjimmy wrote:I'm assuming he had unlimited access to the restaurant & a la carte menu at De Vere Whites hotel?
And maybe even an arse-wiping machine in his hotel room?
And has a few quid, can speak the lingo and can get himself about, too?

Perfectly understand the 'it wouldn't have happened under BSA' sentiment, and subscribe to it.
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Re: Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

Post by Dr.Karl » Wed May 16, 2012 10:20 am

ohjimmyjimmy wrote:I'm assuming he had unlimited access to the restaurant & a la carte menu at De Vere Whites hotel?
And maybe even an arse-wiping machine in his hotel room?
In ordinary circumstances I feel its kind of pathetic for a grown man not be able to look after himself. But these really aren't ordinary circumstances. Being moved alone at short term notice to another country and different culture(New York to Bolton would be quite a leap I imagine :)) and just left to your own devices seems scandalous. I think he's only 24 too, the whole experience must have been daunting.
bedwetter2 wrote:I'm in full agreement with this. I can't be bothered to look back at previous posts but I made these very points about a general lack of professionalism through this season and before. It may not mean much to the average football fan who doesn't have the experience of running a commercial business but performance management is absolutely key to getting the best out of a company and it's employees.

BWFC has been managed extremely poorly; not so much different to many football clubs but in absolute terms when compared to companies outside football. There is a closed shop feel and inertia at the club, whether the longevity of serving board members or in the use of 'favoured' football agents. Now I am sure people will say that it is Eddie Davies' perogative whether he wishes the club to remain paternalistic and unmodernised but the poor management has a huge effect on the 'customers', i.e. the supporters. Fresh blood is needed if only to get rid of someone like Gartside making fatuous comments along the lines that Owen Coyle will be here for the foreseeable future, come what may.
Thats exactly what I'm trying to get at. I don't know how we compare to other clubs but the way it comes across I'd be horrified running a business this way. In football it seems the norm but that really isn't good enough.
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