Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
Tombwfc
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2912
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:37 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Tombwfc » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:50 pm

SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.

I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.

Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
The same bloke who then opted never to play him?

I liked Ryo, although I don't think Muamba had anything to do with his loss of form. Everybody over-hyped him when he first came in and then all decided he was irredeemably shite four games later. He was a 19-year-old kid with 12 senior games to his name (all in another country), being asked to save a useless team.

Scott Sinclair had any number of mediocre loan spells while at Chelsea when it looked like it was never going to happen for him. I could see the same happening with Miyaichi.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:37 am

SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.

I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.

Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
Surely it has to be easier to try and spot a decent loanee from Chelsea, Arsenal and City, than from West Brom, Stoke and Wigan? You're getting the benefit of their scouting systems.

Overall Miyachi wasn't a good player for us, he was a poor player for us and a luxury we couldn't afford. As has been said, Rodrigo barely got off the bench. Sturridge and Wilshere weren't exactly "unspotted" before they arrived, although credit to him for securing their loans. Boyata was used in a variety of back four positions, displacing some of our regular First Teamers, to no discernible effect.

Tuncay hardly got used. Weiss was no great shakes (but did have a hand in the two goals at Stoke that probably kept us up that season). Afobe, not seen enough of, but looks a bit headless at the moment - with clearer direction from a new Manager, might get some improvement out of him.

Spearing looks like a good loan, Warnock, not sure about yet.

All in all, a lot of loanees, quite a few barely used other than to upset some of the regular First Teamers. Hopefully the next incumbent will loan people he's actually going to either use regularly, or bench regularly and bring on. Coyle's random "drop this loanee in for a few starts before deciding they're no better than what we had anyhow" was counterproductive in my opinion.

All in all, a bit random.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:55 am

SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.

I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.

Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
Coyle used other people's much better scouting systems to loan players from - nowt wrong with that, but it's hardly like he's picking hidden gems out of the unknown. He then generally made a mess of using them.

Wilshere - loaned and played - think this was his best one. We needed CM cover, Wilshere took the spot and did well.
Weiss - used as bit part - still nothing wrong with that - didn't really upset the balance of the team, contibuted to our 2 goals at Stoke, which probably kept us up.

Sturridge - displaced Elmander, overall our team performances dipped whilst he was here. Great to see Sturridge's goals, but not sure overall it helped the team.
Rodrigo - barely used.
Boyata - dotted around the back four to show our underperforming defenders how it should be done - Boyata was our equivalent of a "play anywhere across the back naughty boys corner". But little better than anyone else we had from what we saw, and ultimately when it's team organisation as much as the individuals concerned, not going to solve the problem
Tuncay - Go figure. No idea why we paid Wolfsburg good money for Tuncay
Miyachi - Was a complete crock of shite for us, other than maybe his first game or two. Actually looked like he could beat a defender and get a cross in that didn't hit the first bloke - unfortunately as soon as teams figured he was soft as shite, that was then end of anything he was likely to do for us.
Kakuta - useless for us.

bobo the clown
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19597
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:49 am
Location: N Wales, but close enough to Chester I can pretend I'm in England
Contact:

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by bobo the clown » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:09 am

Agreed, Worthy except maybe re Sturridge. He was a superb player for us. He did lead to Elmander being shoved back into midfield & it was clear those 2 didn't get along. The issue was that it was Elmander moved aside rather than Davies.

I wouldn't want to have never had Sturridge here. He was used well, it was the room made for his which was ill-judged.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:45 am

bobo the clown wrote:Agreed, Worthy except maybe re Sturridge. He was a superb player for us. He did lead to Elmander being shoved back into midfield & it was clear those 2 didn't get along. The issue was that it was Elmander moved aside rather than Davies.

I wouldn't want to have never had Sturridge here. He was used well, it was the room made for his which was ill-judged.
Undoubtedly a good player for us Bobes. And maybe it should've been Davo, rather than Elmander displaced. Either way, our results dipped when he came into the team. And if it's a good player for us, to the detriment of the wider team, then it's not much use. He was used well as a lone player, in a team context I'm not half as convinced.

Ianmooreslovechild
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Ianmooreslovechild » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:09 am

Goes to show his loan signings or at least how he used them was as bad as his permanent ones.Wiltshire and sturridge did well but the rest like typical coyle signings were flashy gutless wonders who promised much and did nowt. Coyles type of player.
Baffled by what he did with Tuncay who looked ok when he came in to me and Miyaichi looked excellent on the left so naturally we switched him to the right where he was useless.

bobo the clown
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19597
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:49 am
Location: N Wales, but close enough to Chester I can pretend I'm in England
Contact:

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by bobo the clown » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:48 am

Ianmooreslovechild wrote:Baffled by what he did with Tuncay who looked ok when he came in to me.
His use, or non-use, of Tuncay was one of those things which were so strange.

It may have been justified .... but if so, fckg explain it to people. As it was it just looked personal.

& much as he has the 'nice guy' image he sure fell out with people often enough.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".

CAPSLOCK
Icon
Icon
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:35 am

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by CAPSLOCK » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:19 pm

While having my doubts about him for a long time - tho the afternoon when we beat Newcastle will long live with me - I mostly 'liked' him as a bloke

Towards the end I'd had my fill

I'm not sure he actually is 'nice'

A stubborn fcuker with a nasty, nasty streak, I reckon

His 'fcuk you, I know best, even though it's clear I don't' got very, very wearing

I'm pleased he's gone and while I don't wish him ill, I'd not be sad to see him sacked again, some time soon
Sto ut Serviam

User avatar
Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 38742
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:41 pm

^ What he said!
May the bridges I burn light your way

nelson66
Promising
Promising
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by nelson66 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:51 pm

According to the Scottish press it all went wrong when he had to sell Cahill
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... e.19110550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I reckon it went wrong when it started to take more than enthusiasm and passion for the game, eg tactics, team selection, skill in the transfer market, and not playing yer mates every week.
His last game at Millwall where he played a right footed winger on the left, and a left footed midfielder on the right just about summed him up.
The Whites Are Going Up 2021 :pissed: :grin:

a1
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3427
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:11 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by a1 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:50 pm

he were doing that kinda shite months before.

CAPSLOCK
Icon
Icon
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:35 am

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by CAPSLOCK » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:53 pm

a1 wrote:he were doing that kinda shite months before.
We're gonna have months and months of could, woulda, shoulda

The nob actually believes it

Delusional
Sto ut Serviam

User avatar
Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13303
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Hoboh » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:04 am

I cannot get my head around these other so called football fans spouting the crap they are about how good Coyle is :crazy: Put him in charge of their team and see how long they like him!
Another thing I don't get is all the pathetic he's a nice chap, wish him no ill etc, bollox I will never forgive him as long as he breathes for relegating us because with out shadow of a doubt it was down to him and his hand picked backroom boys, ok he had a few problems but he failed to address these and deserves no sympathy what so ever.
The fact gartside did not move at the end of last season may be a burden the club will find hard to remove, I feel Coyles long term legacy will be a disaster unless we really get lucky with the new guy.
Owen Coyle non-entity now moved on, Scotand awaits your return :zzz:

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:36 pm

St Johnstone chairman Geoff Brown said rather than wrote:It is a shame, but Owen got a million when he went to Bolton, another million for keeping them up, so he is not poor.
Not amazing figures, perhaps - a player on £20kpw gets £1m per year whether or not his team stays up - and obviously only a fraction of what it's worth to the club, but still eyebrow-raising when stated baldly...

si2008
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:10 pm
Location: at my pc except on match days when i,m watching the whites

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by si2008 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:05 pm

and he now saying the ones that got away and he didnt sign would they have made any differance at all...? not for me...
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ay/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Abdoulaye's Twin
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9167
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: Skye high

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:23 pm

si2008 wrote:and he now saying the ones that got away and he didnt sign would they have made any differance at all...? not for me...
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ay/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They'd only just be finished picking the splinters out of their arses.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36010
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Quotes from Kevin Davies and story in BN today again very revealing.....
“We’ve generally gone out and played to our way,” he said. “Sometimes it hasn’t worked out and we’ve been criticised for not having a plan B, but they are working very hard on shape with the back four and midfield.

“We do need to be more solid, there haven’t been enough clean sheets and that’s down to everyone, the whole team. We need to improve.”
It is noticable that sports science and medical departments, such a bedrock of Wanderers’ success in the Premier League, have become more prevalent in the last week.
“We’ve had a few conversations about what we do for recovery, because we’ve got quite a few games coming up in a short space of time,” Davies revealed. “They’ve looked at all aspects of training - and we’re in twice a day now.

“We do pre-hab in the gym in the mornings, and to be fair, the lads have always been quite good with that.

“They are looking at using Jimmy (Barrow) and Mike (Clitheroe) more and the science of it, trying to tailor it individually so that the training is all specific to what they feel each player needs.”
So basically all the stuff about Coyle doing feck all in training and taking away the scientific approach that has long since been suspected but never confirmed were all true. I remember early in Coyle's days Davies on Goals on Sunday saying they did no work on shape or tactics or defensive work in training.

Lord Kangana
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 15355
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:42 pm
Location: Vagantes numquam erramus

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Lord Kangana » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:14 pm

All that stuff went with Allardyce.
You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks.
Yes, you can stare into the abyss, but it's staring right back.

Riviman
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:46 am
Location: Bolton

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Riviman » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:20 pm

From today's Bolton News:
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ws/9988466._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

isn't this the sort of thing that should have been going on under Coyle?
I feel reborn !!!! No more confussion

Sponge
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:17 am

Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

Post by Sponge » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:26 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:Quotes from Kevin Davies and story in BN today again very revealing.....
“We’ve generally gone out and played to our way,” he said. “Sometimes it hasn’t worked out and we’ve been criticised for not having a plan B, but they are working very hard on shape with the back four and midfield.

“We do need to be more solid, there haven’t been enough clean sheets and that’s down to everyone, the whole team. We need to improve.”
It is noticable that sports science and medical departments, such a bedrock of Wanderers’ success in the Premier League, have become more prevalent in the last week.
“We’ve had a few conversations about what we do for recovery, because we’ve got quite a few games coming up in a short space of time,” Davies revealed. “They’ve looked at all aspects of training - and we’re in twice a day now.

“We do pre-hab in the gym in the mornings, and to be fair, the lads have always been quite good with that.

“They are looking at using Jimmy (Barrow) and Mike (Clitheroe) more and the science of it, trying to tailor it individually so that the training is all specific to what they feel each player needs.”
So basically all the stuff about Coyle doing feck all in training and taking away the scientific approach that has long since been suspected but never confirmed were all true. I remember early in Coyle's days Davies on Goals on Sunday saying they did no work on shape or tactics or defensive work in training.


:doh:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests