Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?

[coffeymagic]

I never wanted Coyle out. I'm not surprised he's been given the boot and to be honest thought he might have gone at several points last season or during the summer.

The reason I didn't want him out was I fear for who Phil Gartside's homme du jour is and have a bad feeling that the next owner of the 'Super White Army' epithet will be just as bad, or worse than Coyle ever was.

That's the only reason.

However, I never really trusted Coyle to get it right. It's ok blaming injuries, referees, a tough run of fixtures, bad ju-ju or whatever but isn't the sign of insanity making the same choices yet expecting difficult results?

There are many reasons why Coyle's no longer the boss. The constant chopping and changing at the back, not playing Muamba, the persistence with 442, the refusal to play players despite going mental to sign them...we could go on.

For me the warning signs were there a long time before this though. Cast your mind back to November 2010.

Two-Nil down to Blackpool the Wanderers fought back to clinch a last gasp 2-2 draw. For Coyle this game demonstrated our grit and our resilience (2-0 down at home to Blackpool should have demonstrated something else but there you go).

Afterwards he said that for the final 15 minutes he 'threw caution to the wind because he was prepared to lose 4-0 in an attempt to get something out of the game.'

'Hmmm', I thought 'Perhaps Mr Coyle isn't quite the tactical genius we were once lead to believe.'

Coming down from the Prem was bad, but acceptable. The start to this season hasn't been. Instead of intimidating the opposition with our players, stadium and stature we've shown little capitulating at the first signs of pressure Unable to land the killer blow at the right time we've let our guard down and exposed our glass jaw time and time again.

Is it a lack of leadership? A lack of ideas or just a lack of spirit for the fight?

At the end of the day Coyle can't complain he wasn't given a chance. He had plenty and the fans have been more than fair with him.

He pretty much was the author of his own downfall.

edit - Always 'preview' your post!

[DALEYBWFC]

Well said mate, he had a chance.

[Il Pirate]

Coming down from the Prem was bad, but acceptable.


Not in my world it wasn't..................

[David Lee's Hair]

I think it went wrong when he was in a shot at glory..

[coffeymagic]

Coming down from the Prem was bad, but acceptable.


Not in my world it wasn't..................

I'll clarify. I'm not one of these people who say we have a devine right to be in the Prem purely based on the results of previous seasons.

If I wanted to be like that then I'd follow West Ham or Newcastle or even Chelsea where Champions League Semi Final defeats are seen as 'failure'.

Coyle had a lot of excuses last season and we either accepted them, or at least chose to accept them.

We had a bad season, right, fair enough - don't let it happen again.

But he was letting it happen again.

I'm proud that we didn't start pouring scorn down from the terraces like Blackburn and we didn't often see posts like '...it's a disgrace that we're playing (say) Crawley let alone getting beat off 'em....'

You can throw a blanket over most of the teams in the lower half of the Prem. I thought last year could be a 'blip' and we were 'unlucky'.

This season has shown you make your own luck in this game.

[H. Pedersen]

I’ve said this before but I don’t think that Coyle is a hard worker. I just get that impression from the way the players talk about training, from the tactical inflexibility, and from the obvious lack of attention to detail on set pieces, etc.

He was riding high for a while but once the opposition figured out his beloved 4-4-2, he simply had no answer. He might have been able to coast to survival on the strength of some good players, but once Holden and Lee went down it was a time for gritty organization, and Coyle simply can’t do that.

[Dr.Karl]

At the end of MOTD2 they showed a league table of goals conceded by corners. West Ham were bottom of the table having conceded zero from corners. Yeah the sample size isn't great but it sort of proves to me that certain managers work on the minute details of a game better than others. I have absolutely no doubt Coyle doesn't work on this stuff typified by his "tactics don't matter" comments. And various times we've looked so disorganised on the field it becomes apparent no tactical knowledge was parted to the team.

I guess we can only speculate because we don't know the ins and outs of it but from what we've seen and heard from the horses mouth the reason why we struggle is because he displayed an almost unprofessional attitude to preparing for games.

[Spartan2]

At the end of MOTD2 they showed a league table of goals conceded by corners. West Ham were bottom of the table having conceded zero from corners. Yeah the sample size isn't great but it sort of proves to me that certain managers work on the minute details of a game better than others. I have absolutely no doubt Coyle doesn't work on this stuff typified by his "tactics don't matter" comments. And various times we've looked so disorganised on the field it becomes apparent no tactical knowledge was parted to the team.

I guess we can only speculate because we don't know the ins and outs of it but from what we've seen and heard from the horses mouth the reason why we struggle is because he displayed an almost unprofessional attitude to preparing for games.

Agree. Of course tactics matter, the really annoying thing is, it's so painfully self-evident, it should go without saying. Any manager who says otherwise should be sacked on the spot as a matter of principle. If tactics didn't matter what exactly is the managers job? Chief motivator? Head Scout? The mind boggles.

[TKIZ!]

Coming down from the Prem was bad, but acceptable.


Not in my world it wasn't..................

I'll clarify. I'm not one of these people who say we have a devine right to be in the Prem purely based on the results of previous seasons.

If I wanted to be like that then I'd follow West Ham or Newcastle or even Chelsea where Champions League Semi Final defeats are seen as 'failure'.

Coyle had a lot of excuses last season and we either accepted them, or at least chose to accept them.

We had a bad season, right, fair enough - don't let it happen again.

But he was letting it happen again.

I'm proud that we didn't start pouring scorn down from the terraces like Blackburn and we didn't often see posts like '...it's a disgrace that we're playing (say) Crawley let alone getting beat off 'em....'

You can throw a blanket over most of the teams in the lower half of the Prem. I thought last year could be a 'blip' and we were 'unlucky'.

This season has shown you make your own luck in this game.

Sums up how I feel Coffey.

[Prufrock]

To understand where it went wrong, you have to understand why it was going right.

For the first 18 months, and in particular the first six months of his first full season we had two central midfielders who got about and put pressure on the ball constantly, allowing us to play a high line and press teams. If they did clear it we had pace at the back in Cahill. Up top we had Davo who was always good for an out ball and Elmander who ran channels and chased and harried as well. Holden got injured, Elmander went, he fell out with Muamba, and later Cahill went. None were replaced properly and yet we continued to play 4-4-2 with a high line. Unfortunately now we didn't have the pace at the back to cover, our central midfield was hopelessly weak, and didn't close down at all, ever. Plus we had no pace whatsoever up front with Klasnic and Davies. Recipe for disaster.

He talked a good game, and I'm happy he is gone only because he is shit, not because I wish any ill upon the guy. I hope it works out for him, but if it is going to, he really needs to go away and figure a lot of shit out!

[BWFC_Insane]

My theory is he was never very good in the first place.....

[officer_dibble]

At the end of MOTD2 they showed a league table of goals conceded by corners. West Ham were bottom of the table having conceded zero from corners. Yeah the sample size isn't great but it sort of proves to me that certain managers work on the minute details of a game better than others. I have absolutely no doubt Coyle doesn't work on this stuff typified by his "tactics don't matter" comments. And various times we've looked so disorganised on the field it becomes apparent no tactical knowledge was parted to the team.

I guess we can only speculate because we don't know the ins and outs of it but from what we've seen and heard from the horses mouth the reason why we struggle is because he displayed an almost unprofessional attitude to preparing for games.

Burnley away - I cold not believe how unprepared we were. They were mental, buzzing on the ball, fit as a fiddle. Our lot were half fit and looked dazed and confused. Absolutely unbelievable - and its one example of many, but the one that stuck the most really...the time to show what you are made of., and it was the exact opposite. In a way a massive defeat there may have done us a favour, perhaps woken Gartside up earlier, or even Coyle, but 2-0 flattered us, and we continued to flatter.

[H. Pedersen]

At the end of MOTD2 they showed a league table of goals conceded by corners. West Ham were bottom of the table having conceded zero from corners. Yeah the sample size isn't great but it sort of proves to me that certain managers work on the minute details of a game better than others.

Yep. When I called Coyle lazy, I was definitely contrasting him with Allardyce. You get the impression that if the opposing left winger had a hangnail on his left pinky toe, Sam knew about it and told our defenders to show him outside.

Whereas Coyle wouldn't be familiar with the concept of "showing someone outside."

[officer_dibble]

At the end of MOTD2 they showed a league table of goals conceded by corners. West Ham were bottom of the table having conceded zero from corners. Yeah the sample size isn't great but it sort of proves to me that certain managers work on the minute details of a game better than others.

Yep. When I called Coyle lazy, I was definitely contrasting him with Allardyce. You get the impression that if the opposing left winger had a hangnail on his left pinky toe, Sam knew about it and told our defenders to show him inside.

Whereas Coyle wouldn't be familiar with the concept of "showing someone inside."

[Ianmooreslovechild]

To understand where it went wrong, you have to understand why it was going right.

For the first 18 months, and in particular the first six months of his first full season we had two central midfielders who got about and put pressure on the ball constantly, allowing us to play a high line and press teams. If they did clear it we had pace at the back in Cahill. Up top we had Davo who was always good for an out ball and Elmander who ran channels and chased and harried as well. Holden got injured, Elmander went, he fell out with Muamba, and later Cahill went. None were replaced properly and yet we continued to play 4-4-2 with a high line. Unfortunately now we didn't have the pace at the back to cover, our central midfield was hopelessly weak, and didn't close down at all, ever. Plus we had no pace whatsoever up front with Klasnic and Davies. Recipe for disaster.

He talked a good game, and I'm happy he is gone only because he is shit, not because I wish any ill upon the guy. I hope it works out for him, but if it is going to, he really needs to go away and figure a lot of shit out!

All true, his signings havent work in the most part.But I think ultimately he seems totally unable to grasp the basic idea of tactics and I think that makes it hard for players to respect him. He didnt even seem able to sign players suited to the system he wanted to play. It was as if he believed that success could be achieved purely through positivity. When he arrived there was enough structure and quality in place for positivity to have a big effect(especially after Mr Negative) Problem was there was no solution when things started to go pear shaped and no plan for players to believe in . At that point positivity looks like lunacy.

[Prufrock]

He was successful at a lower level, and he was successful at first with us. His 'plan' seems to consist of get about the other team and hope our attacking players can win us the game. When he had players to make that work he was successful, it just seems he never grasped why it was successful and so when it came to replacing players he bought badly. The 'good football thing': the press made out we were Barcelona for a bit. We weren't, if anything we were late nineties United in style. High tempo, two wingers, two all round hard working strikers, one who was more out an out, one who buzzed around different parts of the pitch. He were still very direct, but effective. Now, he has bought midfielders who don't have the energy to close down everywhere, a lumbering back line, and strikers who picks out of a hat to play next to our ageing, slowing captain.

[Worthy4England]

I think Pru has it just about correct. I think there are a couple of obvious "went wrongs"

1) replaced some experience with dross, very poor in the transfer market IMO. Not only dross (and there are a couple of exceptions), but dross that couldn't play to whatever game plan he believed he was playing.
2) loanee signings used to replace full timers, often with little improvement, upset team balance
3) tactical nightmare - they're scoring two a game and he's critical of our chance conversion rate, like we're going to bag three each game...wakey, wakey.
4) players seemingly frozen out. No major problem with that when you haven't signed them or things are going well, but if anyone to this day can explain Sordell to me, at a time when we clearly needed a def Mr, then he can't get off the benchthis season, mystery...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Personally i think it all went wrong when Stuart Holden got injured. Of course, one player should not be the difference between being an entertaining mid table Premiership side, and a complete shambles, so you could say it all went wrong when Coyle decided he was going to play an entertaining brand of attacking football, despite our club not having the money to buy good enough players to play that style successfully. However, during the first two thirds of the 2010-11 season, we were playing some great stuff and getting some great results. Remember the 4-2 defeat of Spurs? That was one of the most breathtaking, entertaining, high quality games I've ever seen. We were all in raptures then. Even during this period though it always seemed we were very close to being completely overrun. And Holden was usually the reason we weren't.

Once Holden wasn't there shoring up the midfield, we struggled to replicate what he brought, which was to make a lot of tackles, thus gaining possession, and being neat and tidy with the ball, rarely giving it away. To this day our biggest issue is seeing enough of the ball, and protecting our defence. With hindsight the transfer window in the summer of 2011 was disastrous. Reo-Coker for Holden, and Ngog for Elmander really weakened our side. Unfortunately for Coyle he was unable to adapt with new tactics or formations, and we spent the first half of the season hopelessly losing games with 30-40% possession, including numerous home games that we should have been winning/drawing. We know the rest. It is a sad day, this to me isn't the start of an exciting new era, but the final nail in what could have been a vibrant period that challenged the Allardyce years for excitement and success. Now it feels we are on the precipice.

[Joggers Nipple]

Personally i think it all went wrong when Stuart Holden got injured. Of course, one player should not be the difference between being an entertaining mid table Premiership side, and a complete shambles, so you could say it all went wrong when Coyle decided he was going to play an entertaining brand of attacking football, despite our club not having the money to buy good enough players to play that style successfully. However, during the first two thirds of the 2010-11 season, we were playing some great stuff and getting some great results. Remember the 4-2 defeat of Spurs? That was one of the most breathtaking, entertaining, high quality games I've ever seen. We were all in raptures then. Even during this period though it always seemed we were very close to being completely overrun. And Holden was usually the reason we weren't.

Once Holden wasn't there shoring up the midfield, we struggled to replicate what he brought, which was to make a lot of tackles, thus gaining possession, and being neat and tidy with the ball, rarely giving it away. To this day our biggest issue is seeing enough of the ball, and protecting our defence. With hindsight the transfer window in the summer of 2011 was disastrous. Reo-Coker for Holden, and Ngog for Elmander really weakened our side. Unfortunately for Coyle he was unable to adapt with new tactics or formations, and we spent the first half of the season hopelessly losing games with 30-40% possession, including numerous home games that we should have been winning/drawing. We know the rest. It is a sad day, this to me isn't the start of an exciting new era, but the final nail in what could have been a vibrant period that challenged the Allardyce years for excitement and success. Now it feels we are on the precipice.

Brilliant résumé & absolutely spot-on!

[Jakerbeef]

Reo-Coker was a downgrade from Holden in terms of the system being played but he was a tidy defensive midfielder in his own right and wouldn't look out of place in most mid-table premiership sides. (Which is what we may have been had we stayed up, but that's a lot of ifs. Personally I'm still disgusted we only won 1 from our last 7 in the Prem iirc.)