Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[SmokinFrazier]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up. Freedman should be carefull having a subtle dig at the fans, all fur coat and no knickers springs to mind so far!

Yeah, I agree with this. Freedman said "...those who have got any idea what they are talking about...", which is pretty insulting to the fans who are very disappointed with the way the season is going. Freedman has constantly said that the team is making progress, yet results are getting worse, so what is actually happening here? Playing well is one thing but unless it translates into points, it's meaningless. We don't need to play well and lose, we need to get wins under our belt, which Freedman hasn't proved capable of doing so far.

I'm not against Freedman at all. I like many of the things he has said and I want him to be a success for us, but there is genuine reason for concern and criticism here. That should be answered by him, rather than passing it off as "we're playing well and results will come, if you know anything about football you'll agree".

[BWFC_Insane]

here's the nub of my argument, I can't think of a successful club that has both anodyne management and ownership. So the question is, are we being led by characters, people who can put a stamp on the club and lead us into their vision, or not?

Refreshingly interesting question Mr Lost Leopard Spot. Subjective of course, as everyone's view of who is and isn't anodyne will be different.

Without getting into that discussion, do you think authority is something that travels with the individual, or is it a position that can be earned?

I think it's the leadership/management question in a nutshell - what separates a Manager from a Leader. Therefore my answer is that authority travels with the individual.

The thing is that leaders tend to only be discovered once they're very successful. So we're always trying to find an "unearthed one".

Like we did with Allardyce.

The other factor is that leaders can lead in different ways, and I think sometimes you can be fixated looking for a "certain type" rather than the right type.

If that makes sense.

We're never going to find "Sam Mk II" and shouldn't be looking for that.

[LeverEnd]

here's the nub of my argument, I can't think of a successful club that has both anodyne management and ownership. So the question is, are we being led by characters, people who can put a stamp on the club and lead us into their vision, or not?

Refreshingly interesting question Mr Lost Leopard Spot. Subjective of course, as everyone's view of who is and isn't anodyne will be different.

Without getting into that discussion, do you think authority is something that travels with the individual, or is it a position that can be earned?

I think it's the leadership/management question in a nutshell - what separates a Manager from a Leader. Therefore my answer is that authority travels with the individual.

Compared to managers appointed and subsequently sacked at the other struggling reelgated clubs he seems to be doing OK on that front. The camp seems to be united and players seem to be buying into what he's trying to do.

Some of the football has been great to watch but the individual errors very annoying, as is the fact that I've been to a fair few games this season and still not seen them win.

I think we're a lot closer to being a good side than we were when he came and if they keep approaching things in the same way but with a few personnel changes, it will click. (apologies for being optimistic!)

He needs to be more understanding of fans' frustrations though, after all we've not seen a winning team for a long time. He should be careful of going down the Mugson route. I'm supportive of what he's trying to achieve, but entitled to be peed off with not seeing any wins. I'd be amazed if we went down though.

[thebish]

The thing is that leaders tend to only be discovered once they're very successful. So we're always trying to find an "unearthed one".

wouldn't that be an "earthed" one then? an unearthed one would already have been unearthed...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up.

You wouldn't have thought so at Walsall that January, when we hadn't won a league game in six weeks. Plenty wanted shut.

That said, such comparisons are pointless. And Freedman needs to be very careful with his phrasing, or his thought process.

[Gravedigger]

The thing is that leaders tend to only be discovered once they're very successful. So we're always trying to find an "unearthed one".

wouldn't that be an "earthed" one then? an unearthed one would already have been unearthed...

He could have a good grounding too but that doesn't mean he would be ungrounded.

[CAPSLOCK]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up.

You wouldn't have thought so at Walsall that January, when we hadn't won a league game in six weeks. Plenty wanted shut.

That said, such comparisons are pointless. And Freedman needs to be very careful with his phrasing, or his thought process.

Aye

[Enoch]

Great that we all see things differently.

Three comments suggesting Freedman was having a go at the fans Saturday, I've listened to the interview a dozen times and I think he was having a go one journalist.

Not a good idea all the same, they can be quite vindictive buggers.


By the by, apart from that lapse, I thought it was a decent interview by Freedman's standard.

[Hoboh]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up.

You wouldn't have thought so at Walsall that January, when we hadn't won a league game in six weeks. Plenty wanted shut.

That said, such comparisons are pointless. And Freedman needs to be very careful with his phrasing, or his thought process.

Sorry DS but Walsall has now't to do with BWFCi's attempt to compare BSA and wet spammers whilst heading up and DF while heading down.
My own opinion of Freedman is he has tried, it ain't working so now he is showing a bit of frustration with the fans.
It really is simple he delivers or gets the boot if he does not, football is not unlike all other business (despite BWFCi's attempts to say it is) and Freedman is NOT delivering, full stop.
Anyone who thinks "oh well Garty will stand by him so no use having a go is well up it, Gartside should be the first to go and his recent track record on the main football side of the business is a complete joke.

[Gary the Enfield]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up.

You wouldn't have thought so at Walsall that January, when we hadn't won a league game in six weeks. Plenty wanted shut.

That said, such comparisons are pointless. And Freedman needs to be very careful with his phrasing, or his thought process.

Sorry DS but Walsall has now't to do with BWFCi's attempt to compare BSA and wet spammers whilst heading up and DF while heading down.
My own opinion of Freedman is he has tried, it ain't working so now he is showing a bit of frustration with the fans.
It really is simple he delivers or gets the boot if he does not, football is not unlike all other business (despite BWFCi's attempts to say it is) and Freedman is NOT delivering, full stop.Anyone who thinks "oh well Garty will stand by him so no use having a go is well up it, Gartside should be the first to go and his recent track record on the main football side of the business is a complete joke.

How long will you give the next bloke before sacking him off?

And the next one?

[BWFC_Insane]

Big difference is BSA was at the right end of the table with results and points in the bag to back him up.

You wouldn't have thought so at Walsall that January, when we hadn't won a league game in six weeks. Plenty wanted shut.

That said, such comparisons are pointless. And Freedman needs to be very careful with his phrasing, or his thought process.

Sorry DS but Walsall has now't to do with BWFCi's attempt to compare BSA and wet spammers whilst heading up and DF while heading down.
My own opinion of Freedman is he has tried, it ain't working so now he is showing a bit of frustration with the fans.
It really is simple he delivers or gets the boot if he does not, football is not unlike all other business (despite BWFCi's attempts to say it is) and Freedman is NOT delivering, full stop.
Anyone who thinks "oh well Garty will stand by him so no use having a go is well up it, Gartside should be the first to go and his recent track record on the main football side of the business is a complete joke.

Firstly if you read the quite singular point I was making, it was the Allardyce was not afraid to take on West Ham fans and even call them deluded, at a time when they were widely and openly unhappy with him.

Having said that as pointed out elsewhere, it's far more likely that Freedman was niggling with the media and not the fans.

My isolated point was that IF he was having a pop at "negative fans" it's not unheard of at Bolton (and I'm not even talking Megson). "Ignorant and naive" for example.

As for the rest it all depends on how the long term picture looks. If as under Coyle, the short term was shit, and the long term shitter then yes Freedman is failing.

But IF we are in a bit of a rut currently (and as those who went on Saturday have all to a man said, we actually played well and on another day could have won), but the longer term pieces are falling into place, then clearly the best thing to do is stick with him and ride out a difficult period, that you will get with any manager at any club at times.

Sacking manager's after a few months continuously only leads to one thing. And it's not pleasant.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...football is not unlike all other business (despite BWFCi's attempts to say it is) and Freedman is NOT delivering, full stop.

Kind of like if you keep getting pork in your halal sandwiches, you'd get another supplier.

[Hoboh]

...football is not unlike all other business (despite BWFCi's attempts to say it is) and Freedman is NOT delivering, full stop.

Kind of like if you keep getting pork in your halal sandwiches, you'd get another supplier.

Well every little dosn't help when burgers are beefed up with Shergar!

[BL3]

it's far more likely that Freedman was niggling with the media and not the fans.

I listened to the interview he gave to Radio Manchester on Saturday. He said that he 'didn't care' whether people thought we were in danger of relegation because he thought we weren't. The interview was conducted by Jack Dearden, not some arsehole from the national media. Dearden seemed to be getting a bit exasperated with him and pointed out that we were only 3 points off the bottom three, something which Dougie didn't appear to be aware of.

[thebish]

Sacking manager's after a few months continuously only leads to one thing. And it's not pleasant.

Chelsea might beg to differ - they have been FAR from unsuccessful in the last few years despite serial short-term manager-sacking...

of course - they have the cash not to care...

[BWFC_Insane]

Sacking manager's after a few months continuously only leads to one thing. And it's not pleasant.

Chelsea might beg to differ - they have been FAR from unsuccessful in the last few years despite serial short-term manager-sacking...

of course - they have the cash not to care...

They have the cash not to care indeed.

But then again it's relative. Their fans are pretty unhappy right now. Especially with the sacking of Di Matteo and the appointment of Benitez.

And lets face it, aside from the Champions League win, they've never recreated the solid and consistent success they enjoyed under Mourinho. Who was their last manager to actually have a decent amount of time in the job.

[thebish]

Sacking manager's after a few months continuously only leads to one thing. And it's not pleasant.

Chelsea might beg to differ - they have been FAR from unsuccessful in the last few years despite serial short-term manager-sacking...

of course - they have the cash not to care...

They have the cash not to care indeed.

But then again it's relative. Their fans are pretty unhappy right now. Especially with the sacking of Di Matteo and the appointment of Benitez.

And lets face it, aside from the Champions League win, they've never recreated the solid and consistent success they enjoyed under Mourinho. Who was their last manager to actually have a decent amount of time in the job.

that's a pretty big aside given that this was what they were aiming for!!

all I'm saying (unless your "only leads one way" meant "win quite a few trophies and the champions league") is that it doesn't in truth lead only one way to have serial short-term managers!

also - arsenal's experience is not the same as ManU's!

[a1]

I listened to the interview he gave to Radio Manchester on Saturday. He said that he 'didn't care' whether people thought we were in danger of relegation because he thought we weren't. The interview was conducted by Jack Dearden, not some arsehole from the national media. Dearden seemed to be getting a bit exasperated with him and pointed out that we were only 3 points off the bottom three, something which Dougie didn't appear to be aware of.

i find it bizarre and kinda hypocritical that some folk are all worried about us being relegated now , when last year they just swallowed any old shit [that] coyle said.

coyle definetly wasnt aware we were actually in the bottom three and shipping 3 goals a game.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

He was...he just wasnt too worried about it.

[a1]

i wonder if coyle knew.

:/