Millwall @ The Reebok

[Prufrock]

For me, it's as simple as: Freedman is marginally better than Coyle, but that doesn't make him good.

Except Coyle had a track record of achievement, something that the experts on here conveniently overlook. One poor season does not make him a poor manager.

Dougie, on the other hand, kept Palace up, didn't do much the season after and then managed half a dozen decent results at the start of this season, after they'd lost the first three.

Did he? He had a track record of getting us relegated, which no manager had managed to do since the 90's, so yeah, I suppose.

[BL3]

Those are the facts. Like them or not. Or are you conveniently ignoring his record at Burnley, or his record with us prior to our first F.A. Cup semi-final for 10 years?

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Those are the facts. Like them or not. Or are you conveniently ignoring his record at Burnley, or his record with us prior to our first F.A. Cup semi-final for 10 years?

Fck me do you never give up?

[gemchris1977]

Coyle was fine when everything was going ok his only sticky time was with us and he had no-one he could turn to like Dougie has with Lennie who knows the game been there done it. He left Burnley as they were on the slide got out at the right time.

The main reason he did ok with us were because he managed to get Whilshere and Sturridge in and also had to people Muamba and Holden who made his 4-4-2 work. When Holden got injured we had no other player who could make a 4-4-2 work and it showed as Muamba who had looked excellent went off the boil and we went downwards.

Granted injuries did not help him so was prepared to put it down to bad luck thinking we would be good at this level but it wasn't meant to be so he had to go.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Things will be different next season as we will have Holden fully fit (if he signs and has no reaction to his injury) Wheater fully fit Vela fully fit and hopefully Sordell will be settled by then and banging in goals.

Feels awfully like straw-clutching. Vela's a bairn who's barely played. Sordell's an enigma, Wheater's inconsistent and Holden... I hope for the best but am genuinely worried about how effective he'll be.

Also {next season} we do not have the stigma of teams playing out of their skins against us because they want to show our players what this division is all about as they were in the premier league last year. Next season we will just be another championship side so hopefully teams won't play anywhere near as well as they are doing against us now.

Fair point, we won't have the novelty value – but that also applies to attracting signings. It's becoming very obvious that this is no freewheeling tour of the division during a triumphant title year. And every year we're out, we slip down the pecking order with Reading, Southampton and West Ham being joined in the "more recent Prem teams" pile by Cardiff and two others. Although maybe it's better not to tempt the Premier wannabes...?

What we have to do is go on a run even though it might not be good enough to get us up and then that breeds optimism for next season and then maybe just maybe next season will be our time.

Couldn't agree more - not just for the team, but for season ticket sales too. A late charge this season, perhaps taking advantage of other teams knocking off early, and maybe attitudes will change, in seats and in shorts.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I would also be inclined to try and view Holden as we did when he first joined us, i.e. a bonus if he comes good but certainly not someone we're planning to build our team around yet.

[Prufrock]

Those are the facts. Like them or not. Or are you conveniently ignoring his record at Burnley, or his record with us prior to our first F.A. Cup semi-final for 10 years?

So he got a side promoted? Once. That's your definition of 'track record of achievement'. Easily pleased aren't we? Are we ignoring Freedman's Palace side getting to a semi-final then?

Don't get me wrong, I do think Coyle's CV up until the Wembley Semi was better than Freedman's up to now, but 'track record of achievement' is stretching it to the fecking max.

What's more, whatever he had done before, Coyle was our manager for 18 months of straight line, premiership status-losing decline. I don't think I'm the only one conveniently ignoring things.

There seems to be a general feeling at the moment that Freedman is better than Coyle was, but not good enough. Seems bob on to me.

[truewhite15]

Those are the facts. Like them or not. Or are you conveniently ignoring his record at Burnley, or his record with us prior to our first F.A. Cup semi-final for 10 years?

So he got a side promoted? Once. That's your definition of 'track record of achievement'. Easily pleased aren't we? Are we ignoring Freedman's Palace side getting to a semi-final then?

Don't get me wrong, I do think Coyle's CV up until the Wembley Semi was better than Freedman's up to now, but 'track record of achievement' is stretching it to the fecking max.

What's more, whatever he had done before, Coyle was our manager for 18 months of straight line, premiership status-losing decline. I don't think I'm the only one conveniently ignoring things.

There seems to be a general feeling at the moment that Freedman is better than Coyle was, but not good enough. Seems bob on to me.

With us, Coyle had about a season, all told, of doing well. Probably just over, actually, if I'm being fair. The final third of the season 09/10, and the first 4/5ths of season 10/11, pre-Wembley. From then on, he was shite, with more shite piled on top. Probably for about a season and a half, if you add it all up. Coyle was definitely shite with us for longer than he was good.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Those are the facts. Like them or not. Or are you conveniently ignoring his record at Burnley, or his record with us prior to our first F.A. Cup semi-final for 10 years?

So he got a side promoted? Once. That's your definition of 'track record of achievement'. Easily pleased aren't we? Are we ignoring Freedman's Palace side getting to a semi-final then?

Don't get me wrong, I do think Coyle's CV up until the Wembley Semi was better than Freedman's up to now, but 'track record of achievement' is stretching it to the fecking max.

What's more, whatever he had done before, Coyle was our manager for 18 months of straight line, premiership status-losing decline. I don't think I'm the only one conveniently ignoring things.

There seems to be a general feeling at the moment that Freedman is better than Coyle was, but not good enough. Seems bob on to me.

With us, Coyle had about a season, all told, of doing well. Probably just over, actually, if I'm being fair. The final third of the season 09/10, and the first 4/5ths of season 10/11, pre-Wembley. From then on, he was shite, with more shite piled on top. Probably for about a season and a half, if you add it all up. Coyle was definitely shite with us for longer than he was good.

Yet to be fair, we were only a shitty penalty away from staying up, or a minute's more concentration in that WBA game. So near and yet so far.

[Worthy4England]

A question to those who went: Did we look any good? Leaving aside the arguments about managers (and that substitution), did the team look unlucky to be held, or lucky to get a point?

On the balance of play

Could've lost, should've won

Not sure either team would've scored without a penalty

If you combine their commitment, work ethic and desire with our wage bill, you'd be on to something

Can't disagree with this really. The number of times we seriously troubled the keeper was limited - the one time we beat him from anything other than the penalty, was a header by Davo leading to a very good clearance off the line by N'Guessan.

So that's where I had it pitched too - Bolton at best an average Championship team with big wages and small commitment. Millwall an average Championship team with small wages and big commitment.

[Worthy4England]

A late charge this season, perhaps taking advantage of other teams knocking off early, and maybe attitudes will change, in seats and in shorts.

There is nothing I've seen thus far, to suggest you should be holding your breath on this one DSB.

I kept coming back to the word lightweights whilst watching on Saturday.

The first 15 minutes were laughable. I thought Ream wasn't a Prem player - I don't think he's a Championship player either. The midfield was defensively lacking, so when we're defending, you really can't see anyone in either of the MF or Defence who's going to take control of the situation and stop the opposition progressing to the edge of the box.

We could use a big CD stopper with a bit of nous, and probably the same in the centre of midfield.

Attacking, we're not doing too bad to the edge of their box, but the front two need shipping (probably along with their associated subs.)

[jaffka]

A late charge this season, perhaps taking advantage of other teams knocking off early, and maybe attitudes will change, in seats and in shorts.

There is nothing I've seen thus far, to suggest you should be holding your breath on this one DSB.

I kept coming back to the word lightweights whilst watching on Saturday.

The first 15 minutes were laughable. I thought Ream wasn't a Prem player - I don't think he's a Championship player either. The midfield was defensively lacking, so when we're defending, you really can't see anyone in either of the MF or Defence who's going to take control of the situation and stop the opposition progressing to the edge of the box.

We could use a big CD stopper with a bit of nous, and probably the same in the centre of midfield.

Attacking, we're not doing too bad to the edge of their box, but the front two need shipping (probably along with their associated subs.)

This for me, we dont have a stand out leader who deserves their place in the team and inspires the others onto great things.

[BWFC_Insane]

A late charge this season, perhaps taking advantage of other teams knocking off early, and maybe attitudes will change, in seats and in shorts.

There is nothing I've seen thus far, to suggest you should be holding your breath on this one DSB.

I kept coming back to the word lightweights whilst watching on Saturday.

The first 15 minutes were laughable. I thought Ream wasn't a Prem player - I don't think he's a Championship player either. The midfield was defensively lacking, so when we're defending, you really can't see anyone in either of the MF or Defence who's going to take control of the situation and stop the opposition progressing to the edge of the box.

We could use a big CD stopper with a bit of nous, and probably the same in the centre of midfield.

Attacking, we're not doing too bad to the edge of their box, but the front two need shipping (probably along with their associated subs.)

This for me, we dont have a stand out leader who deserves their place in the team and inspires the others onto great things.

Big ask, but Holden, IF he can come back even half as good?

[jaffka]

A late charge this season, perhaps taking advantage of other teams knocking off early, and maybe attitudes will change, in seats and in shorts.

There is nothing I've seen thus far, to suggest you should be holding your breath on this one DSB.

I kept coming back to the word lightweights whilst watching on Saturday.

The first 15 minutes were laughable. I thought Ream wasn't a Prem player - I don't think he's a Championship player either. The midfield was defensively lacking, so when we're defending, you really can't see anyone in either of the MF or Defence who's going to take control of the situation and stop the opposition progressing to the edge of the box.

We could use a big CD stopper with a bit of nous, and probably the same in the centre of midfield.

Attacking, we're not doing too bad to the edge of their box, but the front two need shipping (probably along with their associated subs.)

This for me, we dont have a stand out leader who deserves their place in the team and inspires the others onto great things.

Big ask, but Holden, IF he can come back even half as good?

I like Holden and am looking forward to him coming back/

As bubbly as he is I am not sure that he is a leader in the sense as to how I would describe a skipper.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know what you mean. We don't have a 'Terry' or an 'Adams' or a 'Hendry'.

I do think Holdens effort and passion rub off on others though.

But yeah we haven't got an up and at em no surrender leader at all!

[plymouth wanderer]

I know what you mean. We don't have a 'Terry' or an 'Adams' or a 'Hendry'.

I do think Holdens effort and passion rub off on others though.

But yeah we haven't got an up and at em no surrender leader at all!

Wheater possibly?

[jaffka]

I know what you mean. We don't have a 'Terry' or an 'Adams' or a 'Hendry'.

I do think Holdens effort and passion rub off on others though.

But yeah we haven't got an up and at em no surrender leader at all!

I agree with you totally here.

[jaffka]

I know what you mean. We don't have a 'Terry' or an 'Adams' or a 'Hendry'.

I do think Holdens effort and passion rub off on others though.

But yeah we haven't got an up and at em no surrender leader at all!

Wheater possibly?

good call and fingers crossed

[LeverEnd]

Bet Matty taylor's gutted he's left if Holden's going to be rubbing off on people*

*allegedly

DISCLAIMER: Joke

[LeverEnd]

On a more serious not I agree with the whole leadership point. I'm not sure Coyle liked forceful characters, went more for the chummy team ethic, both on the pitch and backroom. Hansen said on MOTD about 2 centre halves (who I won't name for reasons of taste!), that they don't just ask teammates to take up certain positions, they DEMAND it. Not seen much of that this season.