Freedman out!

[thebish]

I didn't say we did. Jaffka (as you know, but we can waste terrabites of the internet if its necessary) was pointing out (as you'll see with the Baptiste example) where the players had played. In The Premiership.

no he wasn't. he said "he's signing players from similar level teams"

who did we sign Beckford from? not Everton, that's for sure...

[thebish]

i don't believe we signed Beckford from Everton... you may be right - but I believe you are very wrong...

I believe he is saying Beckford played for Everton at one time and therefore was once a Premiership player. Nobody asked me, so feel free to ignore this post

I know - but that's not what the list was about. the list was about Jaffka's comment that Freedman is "signing players from similar level teams"

as usual, LK is talking about a different question - which he's entitled to do - but it isn't helpful to throw it in as if it an answer to the actual question under discussion.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

i don't believe we signed Beckford from Everton... you may be right - but I believe you are very wrong...

I believe he is saying Beckford played for Everton at one time and therefore was once a Premiership player. Nobody asked me, so feel free to ignore this post

I know - but that's not what the list was about. the list was about Jaffka's comment that Freedman is "signing players from similar level teams"

as usual, LK is talking about a different question - which he's entitled to do - but it isn't helpful to throw it in as if it an answer to the actual question under discussion.

I believe Jaffka is ultimately referring to player quality (perceived), which would make LK's point relevant. After all, it matters not where you buy from, only the quality.

We've been shopping in the bargain bin under the last 2 managers. Unfortunately the reduced sticker appeared to fall off some of the buys and some were simply from the bottom of the bin. Come the summer we offload a lot of wage bill, but I can't see much sale revenue coming in sadly.

[Lord Kangana]

Thankyou AT.

[LeverEnd]

We have players who have either played at a higher level or succeeded at this level and they are being mismanaged. I think the quality of manager is more important than the quality of players in this league compared to the Prem. I'd use us and Burnley as strong evidence for this.

[thebish]

sorry - my mis-attribution....

a1 suggested that Freedman "signing players from similar level teams"

Jaffka produced a list of players freedman signed to counter this assertion

LK added another name.

in Jaffka's list - there are two players that we had actually signed from premiership clubs and one (baptiste) that was scraping the barrel - which is why I suggested he had run out of names!

LK then added Beckford - who we did not sign from a premiership club - so did not actually add meaningfully to the list made by jaffka in response to a1.

i hope that is now clear.

[Lord Kangana]

mis-attribution

That'd be the same as being wrong, right?

[thebish]

mis-attribution

That'd be the same as being wrong, right?

not about the irrelevance of your beckford suggestion - but - yes, subsequently, about who said what (I'm quite happy to admit when i have something wrong - unlike your good self).

still seems crystal clear to me that a1 actually said: "he's signing players from similar level teams"

Jaffka's counter-list I can understand - but it ran out very quickly - the point of my comment.

your addition of Beckford's name still makes no sense at all. (not that you'll ever admit that, will you?)

[Lord Kangana]

Makes perfect sense.

Besides which, if we want to enter bishworld, we still signed him from Leicester who are light-years ahead of us and just gave us a right royal 5-3 twatting.

This discussion is the only irrelevance.

[thebish]

^ thought not.

(also - unless I am mistaken - we signed Beckford before the season started - not last saturday - so Leicester's CURRENT position in relation to ours yet another irrelevance as is their recent 5-3 win.)

[Wandering Willy]

Dear God give it a rest.

[SmokinFrazier]

Just to go back to an earlier point, no fan in the country wants to constantly change managers. Everyone wants a Ferguson or a Wenger, who can get the club to a good level and achieve stability for a long period but that doesn't mean you should stick with a useless manager for the sake of it. If relegated to Division 2 with Freedman, would we be happy that we stuck with him despite underachieving? Of course not. I don't want a new manager every year but I don't want us to stick with a failure for too long either.

Sammy Lee went at the right time and Coyle is the prime example of what happens when you wait too long. Not getting rid of Freedman soon would be a major issue financially because the current squad is capable of promotion in better hands. We can't afford another underperforming season next year but if Freedman stays, I think that's all we're capable of. Financially, we need to go back up and the current squad is capable of it.

[LeverEnd]

Just to go back to an earlier point, no fan in the country wants to constantly change managers. Everyone wants a Ferguson or a Wenger, who can get the club to a good level and achieve stability for a long period but that doesn't mean you should stick with a useless manager for the sake of it. If relegated to Division 2 with Freedman, would we be happy that we stuck with him despite underachieving? Of course not. I don't want a new manager every year but I don't want us to stick with a failure for too long either.

Sammy Lee went at the right time and Coyle is the prime example of what happens when you wait too long. Not getting rid of Freedman soon would be a major issue financially because the current squad is capable of promotion in better hands. We can't afford another underperforming season next year but if Freedman stays, I think that's all we're capable of. Financially, we need to go back up and the current squad is capable of it.

I agree, not automatically of course, but we should be in the playoffs giving ourselves a chance. There is only one reason why so many players are underperfoming at the same time.

[irie Cee Bee]

Just to go back to an earlier point, no fan in the country wants to constantly change managers. Everyone wants a Ferguson or a Wenger, who can get the club to a good level and achieve stability for a long period but that doesn't mean you should stick with a useless manager for the sake of it. If relegated to Division 2 with Freedman, would we be happy that we stuck with him despite underachieving? Of course not. I don't want a new manager every year but I don't want us to stick with a failure for too long either.

Sammy Lee went at the right time and Coyle is the prime example of what happens when you wait too long. Not getting rid of Freedman soon would be a major issue financially because the current squad is capable of promotion in better hands. We can't afford another underperforming season next year but if Freedman stays, I think that's all we're capable of. Financially, we need to go back up and the current squad is capable of it.

Unbelievable. I would like to believe you but see no evidence of that. Please tell me why you draw that conclusion.

[danardif1]

Just to go back to an earlier point, no fan in the country wants to constantly change managers. Everyone wants a Ferguson or a Wenger, who can get the club to a good level and achieve stability for a long period but that doesn't mean you should stick with a useless manager for the sake of it. If relegated to Division 2 with Freedman, would we be happy that we stuck with him despite underachieving? Of course not. I don't want a new manager every year but I don't want us to stick with a failure for too long either.

Sammy Lee went at the right time and Coyle is the prime example of what happens when you wait too long. Not getting rid of Freedman soon would be a major issue financially because the current squad is capable of promotion in better hands. We can't afford another underperforming season next year but if Freedman stays, I think that's all we're capable of. Financially, we need to go back up and the current squad is capable of it.

I agree, not automatically of course, but we should be in the playoffs giving ourselves a chance. There is only one reason why so many players are underperfoming at the same time.

Because they're all rubbish?

They've been underperforming for 3 years now, to the point where underperformance becomes typical performance... I suspect you are trying to pin our woes on Dougie but I don't think he's the root of it.

[LeverEnd]

I am you're right. He's not solely to blame of course and I'd like him to succeed, but he's brought in players like Medo Baptiste and Craig Davies who looked like excellent signings for our current situation. Every one has been a let down. Spearing too. All coincidence or could the common factor be bad management? I was happy to go along with the argument that he inherited the wrong type of squad from Coyle but that excuse just doesn't wash any more.

[irie Cee Bee]

I am you're right. He's not solely to blame of course and I'd like him to succeed, but he's brought in players like Medo Baptiste and Craig Davies who looked like excellent signings for our current situation. Every one has been a let down. Spearing too. All coincidence or could the common factor be bad management? I was happy to go along with the argument that he inherited the wrong type of squad from Coyle but that excuse just doesn't wash any more.

Saying Baptiste has let him down is harsh, but did Feeny, Danns and McNaughton let us down also? Beckford is on his way to double figures. I carry no brief for DF but for me, its the first time since Big Sam that I see a manager who appears to know what he is doing, and prepared to give him time based on what he has inherited (players without heart and poor finances)

[LeverEnd]

I am you're right. He's not solely to blame of course and I'd like him to succeed, but he's brought in players like Medo Baptiste and Craig Davies who looked like excellent signings for our current situation. Every one has been a let down. Spearing too. All coincidence or could the common factor be bad management? I was happy to go along with the argument that he inherited the wrong type of squad from Coyle but that excuse just doesn't wash any more.

Saying Baptiste has let him down is harsh, but did Feeny, Danns and McNaughton let us down also? Beckford is on his way to double figures. I carry no brief for DF but for me, its the first time since Big Sam that I see a manager who appears to know what he is doing, and prepared to give him time based on what he has inherited (players and poor finances)

Nor do I have any agenda against him, but his appointment was a big risk and to me it's not paying off. I thought the same as you until around 7-8 games into this season, when I decided that the stuff he says that sounds good is all hot air and he can't back it up. I hope you're right and he flourishes but I doubt it. I guess we'll have to agree to differ, I'm not going to harp on about sacking him on this thread after every poor game because there is nothing more to say really. I'll just support the team and see what happens.

[Worthy4England]

mis-attribution

That'd be the same as being wrong, right?

not about the irrelevance of your beckford suggestion - but - yes, subsequently, about who said what (I'm quite happy to admit when i have something wrong - unlike your good self).

still seems crystal clear to me that a1 actually said: "he's signing players from similar level teams"

Jaffka's counter-list I can understand - but it ran out very quickly - the point of my comment.

your addition of Beckford's name still makes no sense at all. (not that you'll ever admit that, will you?)

can LK tell us which on the list is Player A?

[norm the jedi]

See the 'triffic squad shit manager' hypothesis is alive and well ...
No more true than it ever was ...
Both elements are fairly mediocre ... So are the results...
The burning torches and pitchfork processions should still head for chateau Coyle...
With a gubillion pounds in debts and a bargain bucket transfer policy replacing one 'potential' manager with another isn't going to produce the turn around to re-establish us as a premiership club..
Probably because, realistically we aren't a premiership club unless the 160 mill is paid and a similar amount is invested ...