Freedman out!

[plymouth wanderer]

Just out of interest, SF who would you bring in?

My ideal choice would be Martin O'Neill and it's probably not that unrealistic either, given where his Sunderland side were in the league before he got the sack. He might prefer a Premier League job but he certainly won't walk into one, so maybe he'd consider the drop down for a season with the hope of getting us promoted instead? I'd go for experience though, definitely. I actually don't mind the idea of Mick McCarthy either, because whilst I don't think he's a Premier League quality manager, he does have a good track record of getting sides promoted which is obviously the first step for us. He's a much better manager than Freedman, that goes without saying. I like Adkins, McDermott and Davies a lot, though none of those would consider it, I don't think. Those are all pretty experienced but if we were to go for a young manager, I'd want Eddie Howe but I doubt he'd leave Bournemouth. David Flitcroft is a Bolton lad an he did a very good job with Barnsley last year, and whilst I think he'll be a good manager in the future, he's inexperienced too and I'd prefer someone with more credentials.

There aren't a whole lot of good candidates out there, really, though I think I'd prefer someone experienced. If he'd come to us, my choice would be Martin O'Neill.

So Martin O'Neil hey

[Bruce Rioja]

We have 'experience' in Lennie Lawrence. What's his part in all of this?

[89bwfc89]

I'm not saying he should be sacked right now though. I do think that if he was sacked before the Leeds game it'd be beneficial to us but I'm not calling for that yet. I'll be at that stage if we don't win either of the next two games but I'm willing to give him the chance because I don't believe in acting on whims when replacing managers.

I honestly don't think things will change either, which is why I say "the sooner, the better". For me, his sacking is inevitable but I'd still give him the next two home games and the international break to try and save his Bolton career. If we don't win either of them, he should be sacked.

Course not...

Freedman just isn't a good manager and we're going nowhere with him in charge. Not only are his tactics awful, he seems incapable of inspiring the team, so he fails on all counts. I always think it's harsh to sack a manager so early in the season but we really are hopeless and the sooner he's replaced, the better. If he was sacked tonight, I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

FFS! If you're going to continue being so negative, at least be consistent.

[TKIZ!]

Can't see Martin O'Neill coming here when we have zero money to spend on players. One of the myriad of reasons he left Villa

[Bruce Rioja]

At the time of Douglas's appointment, Palace fan Brooklynlou was good enough to come on here to let us know what to expect. Other than for improved fitness, have we actually seen any of this?

Palace fan coming in peace.

If Palace are an example of Dougies "process" and if the man has a "method" (as opposed to winging it and hoping for the best), then below is the timeline of everything he did for us - and which he'll probably do for you but sped up and under a microscope.

• He'll sort out fitness fast. Basically Dougie is a fitness freak. The willingness of the player to do the daily fitness work is a big indicator of whether Dougie will play him (or even sign him). He wants players that can play the 90 minutes.
  
  PS - Expect to hear the word 'fitness' to pop up alot during the transfer window. Usually pops up in his explanation over why a player wasn't signed - or why he was sold.
  
  PPS - See pictures of Zaha compared to 18 months ago - he's put on a ton of muscle.

• Defense comes second If fitness is 1a, defense is 1b. Expect some pretty dour looking games till Xmas while the team becomes better organized in the back and better fit.

• Next comes the midfield, wingers and strikers Once he sorts the defense and the fitness he likes playing a 4231. The midfield is why Palace are on their current run. The back 2 break up play, back up the defense and link play to the wings. Dougie likes his wingers, and right behind the striker and infront of the midfield two is a creative playmaker directing traffic.

• Expect action in the transfer window He and Lennie will target replacements for any player not willing to work on the training ground or if they dont fit the system. He's pretty brutal about it. Dougie earned the ire of alot of Palace fans by his selling of Scannell (loved product of the academy) and Ambrose (Palace hero) over the summer.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Looks to me he'd thought he'd sorted defence with Tierney and Bappers and went straight to midfield. How wrong he was. We now have to go to jail without passing go, whilst forgoing the 200 quid

[Jez]

I also agree that it would be a mistake of epic proportions to get rid

Why?

My stance on Freedman is clear. I'm not actively calling for him to be sacked yet but I think it's inevitable it'll happen soon. He isn't a good enough manager to get us promoted and that's the objective given to him. I'd rather sack him soon than wait until our season can't be turned around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22592831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Annoyed Grunt]

I also agree that it would be a mistake of epic proportions to get rid

Why?

My stance on Freedman is clear. I'm not actively calling for him to be sacked yet but I think it's inevitable it'll happen soon. He isn't a good enough manager to get us promoted and that's the objective given to him. I'd rather sack him soon than wait until our season can't be turned around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22592831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dougie got Palace promoted then?

[Mar]

I'm a fan of Freedman so I would like him to stay. Once the transfer window has shut it should do us a world of good because I suspect a lot of the players are looking over their shoulders wondering whether they'll be here next week.

[SmokinFrazier]

I also agree that it would be a mistake of epic proportions to get rid

Why?

My stance on Freedman is clear. I'm not actively calling for him to be sacked yet but I think it's inevitable it'll happen soon. He isn't a good enough manager to get us promoted and that's the objective given to him. I'd rather sack him soon than wait until our season can't be turned around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22592831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freedman did well with Palace, which is how former players often start off when managing their former club, but he can't be credited with their promotion. Holloway was the one who took over during the toughest time as a manager and he was the one who guided them through the play-offs. Freedman merely got them off to a good start.

[auren]

I know how to sort this mess out.

Lets start by dumping £50,000,000 in the bank, sack all the players not pulling their weight and happily hand over their compensation. Then we can hire Martin O' Neill on whatever contract he wants and get him to sign a bunch of Premier League players. That should do it.

Why the hell not? Most people on here are in fantasy land anyway.

Shit start to the season but for Christs sake, when did we turn into Sunderland?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I also agree that it would be a mistake of epic proportions to get rid

Why?

My stance on Freedman is clear. I'm not actively calling for him to be sacked yet but I think it's inevitable it'll happen soon. He isn't a good enough manager to get us promoted and that's the objective given to him. I'd rather sack him soon than wait until our season can't be turned around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22592831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freedman did well with Palace, which is how former players often start off when managing their former club, but he can't be credited with their promotion. Holloway was the one who took over during the toughest time as a manager and he was the one who guided them through the play-offs. Freedman merely got them off to a good start.

I think you do Freedman a disservice. They were in deep administrative shit. Luck probably played a part, but he kept them steady through a real mess at the club and eventually got them at the right end of the table. Whether they would have gotten promotion had he stayed remains to be seen. They did seem to go down a minor hill after he left though...

[ChrisC]

I also agree that it would be a mistake of epic proportions to get rid

Why?

My stance on Freedman is clear. I'm not actively calling for him to be sacked yet but I think it's inevitable it'll happen soon. He isn't a good enough manager to get us promoted and that's the objective given to him. I'd rather sack him soon than wait until our season can't be turned around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22592831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freedman did well with Palace, which is how former players often start off when managing their former club, but he can't be credited with their promotion. Holloway was the one who took over during the toughest time as a manager and he was the one who guided them through the play-offs. Freedman merely got them off to a good start.

Bollocks!!

Holloway did his very best to feck up what Dougie had left him. How do you come to the conclusion Holloway managed the team through the toughest time? It was only tough when Holloway was there because he made it tough.

By rights, Palace should have gone up automatic.. Holloway couldn't manage it though and made the playoffs by the skin on his teeth.

[BL3]

By rights, Palace should have gone up automatic.. Holloway couldn't manage it though and made the playoffs by the skin on his teeth.

How do work that one out then? They were third when he left. Only the top two go up 'automatic'.

[ChrisC]

By rights, Palace should have gone up automatic.. Holloway couldn't manage it though and made the playoffs by the skin on his teeth.

How do work that one out then? They were third when he left. Only the top two go up 'automatic'.

The run they was on under DF they would have pissed automatic.

[TANGODANCER]

I know how to sort this mess out.

Lets start by dumping £50,000,000 in the bank, sack all the players not pulling their weight and happily hand over their compensation. Then we can hire Martin O' Neill on whatever contract he wants and get him to sign a bunch of Premier League players. That should do it.

Why the hell not? Most people on here are in fantasy land anyway.Shit start to the season but for Christs sake, when did we turn into Sunderland?

No, I should imagine, like me, they're disappointed to find Bolton not having won a game in five and are propping the table up. We'll get over it.

[BWFC_Insane]

So all we need to do is find a manager who fancies coming to a struggling championship clubs, with diminishing crowds, a 1 in and 1 out (but cheaper) policy. No money to spend and seemingly players who are trying to leave but nobody wants, who can flick a switch, get everyone playing well and propel us to promotion?

Right. And Eddie who supposedly has no money left is going to pay off one manager and pay for a new one in? Why would he bother? He doesn't want to spend more money on BWFC seemingly. Don't see why he suddenly would want to.

Dougie is the man. He knows exactly what he is doing. Not even had a year and this mess we are in runs a fair way back.

Not going to post again on this subject because people have already made their minds up one way or another, and I'm 100% convinced that getting rid of him will be a huge mistake. But others will be 100% convinced the other way and there is no point arguing it.

What I will say is at Ewood yesterday and in the pub after, Dougie's name was being sung and it was very clear where the anger was being directed, and it wasn't at the manager.

[Lord Kangana]

Not going to post again because its an argument built on sand?

What happens if we're still in this mess 10 games in? Is he still the man to sort it out? Will it still be a mess of someone else's making? When does it become his own? If we win? But when we lose its all down to somebody else?

And I take it you think the 7th place finish last season was all down to someone else too?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I would auggest that the ten-game benchmark has been widely recognised, regardless of our previous manager, as a reasonable yard-stick to judge by. On the basis that its much harder to turn a season around after, say 20 or 30.

Out of interest, and leaving our previous manager out of this, but if for example we were on 10 or 11 points after 10 games, what would your gut instinct be?

Fully agree that 10 league games is indeed a reasonable yardstick. If we're on 10pts we're at least 50% behind schedule. Need 1.5ppg to hit the play-offs, which is the standard for non-disappointment.

15 points after 10 it is then.
That's 4 wins at least from the next 5.

And a draw. That's a hell of an ask. If he manages something close to that he deserves to be given time, despite the hole we're in being largely of his making. I can't see it, but I don't really want to contemplate what the club does if this form continues. It doesn't bear thinking about.

I know it's a hell of an ask, but it's not a demand: if we win three of the next five it'll probably be because things are getting sorted, so perhaps my "gut feeling" (to use your phrase) won't be disappointment but careful hope. I almost certainly won't be saying sack the manager. Indeed, three wins from five games is nearer 2ppg - if we were to conveniently ignore the results thus far. So, as you say, he would deserve more time - not least because it'll only be early October.

However, coming into this season the vast majority of Bolton fans saw the play-offs as the minimum. Most seasons, that needs slightly more than 1.5ppg. By the time we get to 10 games - a reasonable chunk - we need to at the very least be threatening to make the ground up. There's only so long that happy thoughts can keep the soul afloat.

In case anyone's wondering, the next six games are over the course of three weeks:
Sat 14 Leeds H
Tue 17 Derby H
Sat 21 Brighton A
Sat 28 Yeovil H
Tue 1 Blackpool A
Sat 5 Birmingham A

Then there's another fortnight's gap for internationals, in which England will play Montenegro and Poland. Might not just be Hodgson's achievements that come under scrutiny...

[auren]

No, I should imagine, like me, they're disappointed to find Bolton not having won a game in five and are propping the table up. We'll get over it.

I am also disappointed but the title of this thread is not the answer. 3 pages in and no realistic alternative.