Freedman out!

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon May 30, 2016 8:52 pm

Had the arrogant nice person stuck with the formation that had got us to within one game of the play-offs for the Blackpool game then we'd have been in the play-offs rather than Leicester, and then you'd never have heard of that pikey Steptoe nice person from Fleetwood and we wouldn't have to endure The Boy LineAcre presenting in his scruds!
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by bobo the clown » Mon May 30, 2016 9:09 pm

He's the biggest bullshit merchant we've had I'll give him that. If he knew from the outset I have to say a good number of us were pretty convinced within a few games.

I actually don't believe what he says in that interview. He should not have exited Palace that's for sure. But we had enough in our armoury at that time. He came full of theories and contradictions. He sooo wanted to be taken seriously but pissed the fans off by style of play and talking down to us.

We've had some shockers since Allardyce but he was a bloody odd one. He always seemed to be acting out a part. Never convinced himself, let alone convincing.

Toward the end it seemed to me he'd had a nervous breakdown. The interviews and the state of him were not good at all.
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 30, 2016 10:09 pm

tonymikejoe wrote:This epic post just goes on and on.

I confess I am a CPFC fan who wrongly claimed on this forum you had just poached the Scottish Mourinho when Dougie joined you.

He has just spoken to a Palace internet radio show in which he says he knew he had made a mistake in joining your club when taking the first training session.

Claimed Phil Gartside: "Played me like a kipper" during the negotiations, but to be fair he did praise your former owner's character later on.

Dougie said he had tears in his eyes driving north, but was too pig-headed to change his mind and now admits it was a terrible decision to leave CPFC for Bolton.

Judging by how things turned out I think Bolton fans would agree it was a terrible decision and their club was the one that suffered.

I'd be interested to know if you all think Freedman was the main culprit for your current decline or were things on an inevitable downer, whoever the manager was?
One of a few managers who we thought could arrest the slide, but only made it worse. Three so far.

Like many football teams (and spurned lovers), we went for the opposite of the previous experience. After the gormless happy-clapping idealism of Coyle, Freedman seemed a good fit.

That first season went well and as Bruce Rioja notes we nearly sneaked into the play-offs in what was a textbook exercise of doing just enough to get by; but a last-day change of personnel and formation led to an underwhelming draw and a narrow failure to get back up at the first attempt. It's intriguing to wonder just how bad we'd have been had we snuck up in summer 2013, but it's by the by; that failure, combined with a huge, ill-judged financial gamble on us achieving promotion, led to the start of cutbacks.

In truth Freedman wasn't the only one around the place to be annoyed by those players "earning" too much for doing too little, but it was his job to manage that and in his first full season frankly he didn't. Financially, he threw too much money at his major summer 2013 signing Jermaine Beckford and at Jay Spearing (who had been on loan the previous season), other permanent signings (Alex Baptiste, Marc Tierney, Rob Hall) amounted to nothing much, while other players had their contracts renewed at Premier levels as the club continued to pedal along like Wile E Coyote in midair, convinced promotion was imminent. Those notions were dispelled by (as Kangana notes) the club's worst-ever start to the season: the first 10 games went W0 D5 L5. After one particularly spineless defeat at Blackburn he laid into the players, some of whom he virtually excluded forever more, hardly helping the bang-per-buck problem.

To give Freedman credit where it's due, he could spot a good loanee. Craig Dawson's defensive organisation and vital goals had been behind our league-climb the previous season, and again Freedman was helped by hired hands - target man Lukas Jutkiewicz linked well with quicksilver Joe Mason and another strong Spring helped us pull away from the drop zone and we finished 14th.

Summer 2014 brought more flux - high earners (Chris Eagles, Zat Knight) replaced by what seemed liked middle-ranking earners, some of whom we're still saddled with (Liam Trotter, Dean Moxey, Dorian Dervite). The camp wasn't happy, the fans weren't convinced, he needed a good start, he didn't get one. Again, after 10 games we were on five points, but this time he was sacked after a gutless and gormless 4-0 loss at Fulham, and perhaps more notably his postmatch response to being asked whether his players were good enough to stay up: "Doesn't look like it, does it?"

Never a picture of health, he looked increasingly haunted during his time here. His tactics ranged from tentative to negative, his man-management was decidedly mixed (some players loved him, but he massively divided the squad), his PR work was probably as poor as any manager we've had bar the apparently purposefully spiteful Megson. He brought little joy and no success, and although he had to cut his cloth he was still given too much money by the gawps above him.

How guilty is he? Well, he didn't take us down, unlike Coyle and (effectively) Lennon. But he's certainly one of the three unwise monkeys who oversaw our downturn from a decade-long Premier League stay to a generation-long low of returning to the bottom divisions for the first time since Oasis were a support band playing down the bill at Oldham's Club 57.

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 30, 2016 10:27 pm

Great response DSB, and one that it'd be difficult to pick any holes in.

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 30, 2016 10:43 pm

Worthy4England wrote:Great response DSB, and one that it'd be difficult to pick any holes in.
Oh I'm sure some will try, and they'll quite possibly be right. :D

I only bashed it out 'cos I was waiting for someone to file some copy. But it's a genuinely interesting (if sad) part of the decline. I'm coming to the conclusion that frankly those three idiots were all as bad as each other. To play about again with alternative realities, I wonder if things would have happened differently if they'd arrived in a different order? Maybe Lennon would have done better with the Premier money, if he instead of Coyle had replaced Megson? Maybe he'd have done better than Freedman? Maybe not...

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Prufrock » Mon May 30, 2016 11:10 pm

Coyle was the worst. The worst. Lennon and Freedman both bad. But they had a lot more mitigation going for them than that useless cnut. I'd instinctively say Freedman wiseworse than Lennon, but he was the only one of the unholy trinity not to sign Darren Pratley, so there's that.
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue May 31, 2016 5:39 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:Great response DSB, and one that it'd be difficult to pick any holes in.
Oh I'm sure some will try, and they'll quite possibly be right. :D

I only bashed it out 'cos I was waiting for someone to file some copy. But it's a genuinely interesting (if sad) part of the decline. I'm coming to the conclusion that frankly those three idiots were all as bad as each other. To play about again with alternative realities, I wonder if things would have happened differently if they'd arrived in a different order? Maybe Lennon would have done better with the Premier money, if he instead of Coyle had replaced Megson? Maybe he'd have done better than Freedman? Maybe not...
I'm not one to stick up for Megson, but to be fair, he probably lands on the successful in the transfer market....Danny Shittu aside. I think we paid too much for the players, but with hindsight I'd lay that at the door of Gartside. Megson was a gobshite and it felt like he was dismantling Allardyce's legacy.

Pru is occasionally right and on this occasion I think his assertion that Coyle was the one to properly stuff it up is correct. The Freedman appointment was the last chance to fix it and get back to the Premiership. I didn't believe in the appointment at the time and I think we fell victim to an inexperienced bloke trying to be a Serie A manager in the wrong league.

Lennon didn't stand much chance, but had he gotten the major stuff right then we might have stayed up. Possibly right manager at the wrong time.

To summarise:

Sammy Lee - clueless fool with a suit borrowed from his bigger brother
Megson - cvnt even had he won the Champions League
Coyle - Massively useless and should be banned from even playing Championship Manager
Freedman - out of his depth and stubborn
Lennon - Flailed around and didn't know what to do. Used to turning up and winning

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by LeverEnd » Tue May 31, 2016 9:25 am

"It was the wrong decision and I do regret it," Freedman told Holmesdale Radio.

"It was made by myself, and only me. I wasn't forced or pushed.

"Looking back, I sometimes question myself. I was very ambitious, strong-willed and could not take a no.

"I thought I was King Kong and could fight the world - it's my way or no way.

"The disappointing thing for me is the decision was only made over 24 hours. I didn't have enough time to think and that's what happens in football sometimes.

"Bolton had made an enquiry, paid a fee and were given a license to talk. I spoke to Phil Gartside and he played me, told me everything that I wanted to hear and my decision was made.

"I went in the following day, told Steve Parish and said goodbye to the lads at the training ground. There was a lot of tears - I drove out of the training ground and cried all the way up to Bolton.

"I thought I should turn around but my stubborn head said no. I knew I'd made a mistake and I knew that on my first day at Bolton. My first training session, around a week later, I knew I'd made a mistake.

"But the person I am, the person I still am, that's just me. Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes I get it right - that's just me."
...

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue May 31, 2016 9:57 am

Ah yes, the Gary Megson school of re-inventing history to fit your own present narrative.
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 31, 2016 10:01 am

"But the person I am, the person I still am, that's just me. Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes I get it right - that's just me."
"...it's an interesting end to a CV, Mr Freedman..."

Why was his first training session a week after his arrival? I know it was an international break but...

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Worthy4England » Tue May 31, 2016 10:04 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
"But the person I am, the person I still am, that's just me. Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes I get it right - that's just me."
"...it's an interesting end to a CV, Mr Freedman..."

Why was his first training session a week after his arrival? I know it was an international break but...
Probably because he couldn't find the ping pong table.

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 31, 2016 10:04 am

He was promised the chance to completely rebuild the squad with significant funding available over 4 transfer windows. That is what PG told him according to a member of Dougie's staff at the time. He didn't see a fraction of what he was promised.

Now the question is whether that is what PG thought was in place or whether he was just feeding him a line.....

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by LeverEnd » Tue May 31, 2016 10:34 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:He was promised the chance to completely rebuild the squad with significant funding available over 4 transfer windows. That is what PG told him according to a member of Dougie's staff at the time. He didn't see a fraction of what he was promised.

Now the question is whether that is what PG thought was in place or whether he was just feeding him a line.....
Well he did the same with Lennon it appears, probably what he hoped rather than thought was in place as he ignored reality. We'll never know now.
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue May 31, 2016 10:51 am

Perhaps ED had 5 minutes with him and realised what a bullshitting chancer he was, and withdrew funding?

"Yeah, Ed, if you don't mind me calling you Ed, Teddy, but yeah it's all about marking space and formations, and nothing to do with the ball. Just like they do in Italy. Did I tell you I'd been to Italy? Fantastic training sessions there. Whole weeks spent without the ball...."

"FFS Phil, not again..."
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue May 31, 2016 12:06 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:for the first time since Oasis were a support band playing down the bill at Oldham's Club 57.
Might I just point out here that me and two of my mates walked out of a The Rain gig at the Duke of Welly in Pendlebury? They were fecking shit.
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 31, 2016 12:07 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:for the first time since Oasis were a support band playing down the bill at Oldham's Club 57.
Might I just point out here that me and two of my mates walked out of a The Rain gig at the Duke of Welly in Pendlebury? They were fecking shit.
Did you have the matchball from the Boro game under your jersey? :D

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue May 31, 2016 1:11 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:for the first time since Oasis were a support band playing down the bill at Oldham's Club 57.
Might I just point out here that me and two of my mates walked out of a The Rain gig at the Duke of Welly in Pendlebury? They were fecking shit.
Did you have the matchball from the Boro game under your jersey? :D
No, but I'm sure that I looked as though I might have. :D
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 31, 2016 1:43 pm

A quick note on Owen Coyle. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to characterise him as completely useless, considering we entered May 2011 in the country’s top 8 and had reached the FA Cup semi that season. But the caveats hold the kicker: we flopped badly in the league (losing the last five games) and cup (shipping five goals in one unforgettable gormless afternoon). And there’s the rub with Owen: fine when all is going well, and he can frequently create the optimism and attacking freedom that helps things get going, but almost completely unprepared for life’s vicissitudes.

Notable perhaps that Coyle's results peaked after around 15 months, Freedman after around six months, Lennon after around six weeks.

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Re: Freedman out!

Post by plymouth wanderer » Tue May 31, 2016 2:53 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:A quick note on Owen Coyle. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to characterise him as completely useless, considering we entered May 2011 in the country’s top 8 and had reached the FA Cup semi that season. But the caveats hold the kicker: we flopped badly in the league (losing the last five games) and cup (shipping five goals in one unforgettable gormless afternoon). And there’s the rub with Owen: fine when all is going well, and he can frequently create the optimism and attacking freedom that helps things get going, but almost completely unprepared for life’s vicissitudes.

Notable perhaps that Coyle's results peaked after around 15 months, Freedman after around six months, Lennon after around six weeks.
Agree! don't think Coyle was as bad as them two shithouses
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Re: Freedman out!

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 31, 2016 2:56 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:A quick note on Owen Coyle. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to characterise him as completely useless, considering we entered May 2011 in the country’s top 8 and had reached the FA Cup semi that season. But the caveats hold the kicker: we flopped badly in the league (losing the last five games) and cup (shipping five goals in one unforgettable gormless afternoon). And there’s the rub with Owen: fine when all is going well, and he can frequently create the optimism and attacking freedom that helps things get going, but almost completely unprepared for life’s vicissitudes.

Notable perhaps that Coyle's results peaked after around 15 months, Freedman after around six months, Lennon after around six weeks.
Agree! don't think Coyle was as bad as them two shithouses
Oh he was much much worse. He spent money on the biggest wastes of football oxygen I've seen. And let a team capable of staying up, fester until it was too late.

He was more interested in maintaining his image within the game than winning games of football.

He wastes our last lot of premiership riches on a cast of players not even good enough to be championship regulars.

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