The Debt.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Lord Kangana
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lord Kangana » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:10 pm

Potentially. It won't be quite that easy, but I have said before on several occasions that administration, in our very unique circumstances, could be manipulated to be more in our best interests than it may be in others.

However, and its a massive however, that relies on ED and PG having a plan for that, willing accomplices and the balls to do it. A lot of ifs.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Hoboh » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:16 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:Potentially. It won't be quite that easy, but I have said before on several occasions that administration, in our very unique circumstances, could be manipulated to be more in our best interests than it may be in others.

However, and its a massive however, that relies on ED and PG having a plan for that, willing accomplices
and the balls to do it. A lot of ifs.
Gartside is effectively out of the equation.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lord Kangana » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:02 pm

So I hear. Perhaps that explains a certain T Birch's presence?
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Hoboh » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:21 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:So I hear. Perhaps that explains a certain T Birch's presence?
I doubt Gartside thought much past keeping his seat on the FA board TBH, the man really at fault for the mess is the man who had the ultimate say in things, Davies.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Hoboh » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:07 am

HMRC Winding-up Petition Procedure

Winding up petitions may be issued at Court against either a Company or a Partnership, the latter (a petition to wind up a partnership) is usually when issued by HMRC accompanied by individual HMRC bankruptcy petitions for each of the partners.

A HMRC winding up petition is the precursor to the compulsory liquidation of a company or the dissolution of a partnership if not properly dealt with by the Directors or Partners and in essence means that the Revenue, their solicitor’s office and their barrister is asking the Court to wind up your business and have an insolvency practitioner distribute the assets of that business amongst all creditors.

If the Companies Court Registrar agrees with HMRCs barrister at the court hearing of the petition to liquidate and close down the company then the Court issues a winding-up order. The Company then has to cease to trade. The bank account will have already become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC. The Official Receiver, a Government civil servant, then investigates the company and the conduct of the directors. The assets are liquidated to pay of the debts of the company by a nominated Insolvency Practitioner.
Can someone explain just how the hell have we been paying anything since this was served then?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:39 am

Hoboh wrote:
HMRC Winding-up Petition Procedure

Winding up petitions may be issued at Court against either a Company or a Partnership, the latter (a petition to wind up a partnership) is usually when issued by HMRC accompanied by individual HMRC bankruptcy petitions for each of the partners.

A HMRC winding up petition is the precursor to the compulsory liquidation of a company or the dissolution of a partnership if not properly dealt with by the Directors or Partners and in essence means that the Revenue, their solicitor’s office and their barrister is asking the Court to wind up your business and have an insolvency practitioner distribute the assets of that business amongst all creditors.

If the Companies Court Registrar agrees with HMRCs barrister at the court hearing of the petition to liquidate and close down the company then the Court issues a winding-up order. The Company then has to cease to trade. The bank account will have already become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC. The Official Receiver, a Government civil servant, then investigates the company and the conduct of the directors. The assets are liquidated to pay of the debts of the company by a nominated Insolvency Practitioner.
Can someone explain just how the hell have we been paying anything since this was served then?
Yes, because that bit in bold refers to after today. If at the court hearing of the petition. The wording then should read: the bank account will have become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC having been granted. The last three words seem to be missing from your quote and are quite important.
Last edited by Lost Leopard Spot on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Martin_Cruise » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:42 am

Hoboh wrote:
HMRC Winding-up Petition Procedure

Winding up petitions may be issued at Court against either a Company or a Partnership, the latter (a petition to wind up a partnership) is usually when issued by HMRC accompanied by individual HMRC bankruptcy petitions for each of the partners.

A HMRC winding up petition is the precursor to the compulsory liquidation of a company or the dissolution of a partnership if not properly dealt with by the Directors or Partners and in essence means that the Revenue, their solicitor’s office and their barrister is asking the Court to wind up your business and have an insolvency practitioner distribute the assets of that business amongst all creditors.

If the Companies Court Registrar agrees with HMRCs barrister at the court hearing of the petition to liquidate and close down the company then the Court issues a winding-up order. The Company then has to cease to trade. The bank account will have already become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC. The Official Receiver, a Government civil servant, then investigates the company and the conduct of the directors. The assets are liquidated to pay of the debts of the company by a nominated Insolvency Practitioner.
Can someone explain just how the hell have we been paying anything since this was served then?
The multi millionaires on the clubs board will no doubt have dipped into their personal funds if it suits them to.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:15 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Hoboh wrote:
HMRC Winding-up Petition Procedure

Winding up petitions may be issued at Court against either a Company or a Partnership, the latter (a petition to wind up a partnership) is usually when issued by HMRC accompanied by individual HMRC bankruptcy petitions for each of the partners.

A HMRC winding up petition is the precursor to the compulsory liquidation of a company or the dissolution of a partnership if not properly dealt with by the Directors or Partners and in essence means that the Revenue, their solicitor’s office and their barrister is asking the Court to wind up your business and have an insolvency practitioner distribute the assets of that business amongst all creditors.

If the Companies Court Registrar agrees with HMRCs barrister at the court hearing of the petition to liquidate and close down the company then the Court issues a winding-up order. The Company then has to cease to trade. The bank account will have already become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC. The Official Receiver, a Government civil servant, then investigates the company and the conduct of the directors. The assets are liquidated to pay of the debts of the company by a nominated Insolvency Practitioner.
Can someone explain just how the hell have we been paying anything since this was served then?
Yes, because that bit in bold refers to after today. If at the court hearing of the petition. The wording then should read: the bank account will have become frozen on advertisement of the petition by HMRC having been granted. The last three words seem to be missing from your quote and are quite important.
Think it becomes frozen when they launch the petition in order to stop companies just selling off their assets.

I believe there was an announcement by the club that we had been allowed to carry on trading by request (bank accounts therefore unfrozen).

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:51 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:To extrapolate
Scenarios 1-5
1. Voluntary Administration called by BWFC tomorrow morning. Petition goes ahead but is a technicality as it is merely informed Administration has been entered into.
2. Petition takes place. Judge orders Administration.
3. Petition takes place and judge grants it. Date set for winding up order hearing.
4. Petition takes place but on balance of evidence judge agrees to postpone to a later date (at which point scenarios 2, 3 or 5 occur providing 1 hasn't happened).
5. Judge dismisses petition.

For 5 to place place you need a new buyer or significant investment input.
Route 1 is a get out clause to avoid scenarios 2 and 3 (n.b. scenarios 1 & 2 are not the same thing).
So Scenario number#4 it is then - Feb 22nd.
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Martin_Cruise
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Martin_Cruise » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:58 am

Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:03 pm

Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by plymouth wanderer » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:05 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?

You do that everyday!
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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:07 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?

You do that everyday!
I do what?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Martin_Cruise » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:17 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?
No, being wound up would have been worse but Id rather have gone into administration today than have it delayed for a few weeks.Going into administration would be the start of sorting this mess out.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:20 pm

Martin_Cruise wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?
No, being wound up would have been worse but Id rather have gone into administration today than have it delayed for a few weeks.Going into administration would be the start of sorting this mess out.
That wasn't on the table. HMRC were petitioning for liquidation. They still are.

In effect we are in administration by all but name now (and of course with the 12 points). Not paying wages, looking to sell off assets and trying to reduce the costs for an incoming buyer. OK, Eddie is still in control, but the process and end point are virtually the same. This way may be less painful, but ONLY if they can get a deal across the line.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?
No, being wound up would have been worse but Id rather have gone into administration today than have it delayed for a few weeks.Going into administration would be the start of sorting this mess out.
That wasn't on the table. HMRC were petitioning for liquidation. They still are.

In effect we are in administration by all but name now (and of course with the 12 points). Not paying wages, looking to sell off assets and trying to reduce the costs for an incoming buyer. OK, Eddie is still in control, but the process and end point are virtually the same. This way may be less painful, but ONLY if they can get a deal across the line.
Don't you read anything anybody else puts?
We are not in administration in all but name. Administration was, and still is 'on the cards'.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
plymouth wanderer wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?

You do that everyday!
I do what?
Get wound up.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:01 pm

Martin_Cruise wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?
No, being wound up would have been worse but Id rather have gone into administration today than have it delayed for a few weeks.Going into administration would be the start of sorting this mess out.
Not sure how you think it would help us particularly at this stage of the season without a buyer? We'd flog some stuff off to pay bills maybe at a lower price than we were able to try and get in a marginally more open market (which we're doing or trying to do anyhow), I assume take a 12 point hit (even if it was just voluntary admin).

Admin won't find us a new owner ploughing money in...

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Re: The Debt.

Post by plymouth wanderer » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:10 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
plymouth wanderer wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Martin_Cruise wrote:Disappointing, Delay is one of the worst things that could happen.We are still stuck with an owner who won't put a penny into the club and are now more likely to start next season in the 3rd tier with the points deduction.I'd rather have got it over with now.
WTF? You'd rather we'd been wound up?

You do that everyday!
I do what?
Get wound up.
Knew you'd know! :D
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Izual_Rebirth » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:39 pm

The issue with if we go into admin as opposed to the likes of Pompey is that we own a lot more assets in terms of training ground \ hotel etc which would possibly be sold off under administration.

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