The Debt.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

Tell me what the alternatives were? We either kept our powder dry and effectively settled for sitting where we could afford in the food chain and didn't enjoy watching the likes of Okocha, Anelka, etc etc and 11 years in the premiership, or we eventually end up where we are. As I say FFP is what has hurt us most and possibly couldn't have been foreseen or reasonably expected to when the decisions on spending and wage bills were made.

Of course we can pinpoint mistakes. The biggest one for me is that when the weather was fair and we had 4 seasons in the top 8, we did not create a proper legacy in a fruitful and productive academy. We might have paid it lip service but the results have proven otherwise. Who is responsible for that I'm not sure. I also suspect it is easier to want it, than it is to achieve it, especially in this part of the country.

This the bit where the creating a fantastic academy plan falls down. Too many big Prem clubs who have even better academies and pick up all the best talent. Our academy is just a breeding ground for the lower leagues.

May be true. But how else are we supposed to compete in the new FFP world, with our debts and losses? There isn't an answer, other than no matter how you look at it, we can't.

Academies? For your FFP I raise you the EPPP, which is now pricing clubs out of Academies, unless they can afford £2.5m pa in running costs... can we?

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why ... nd-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(A bit old but heartfelt)

[borgetti_wanderers]

Couple of bag packs, a raffle and a tombola and that debt will be gone.

[coffeymagic]

My mate bought a leather sofa on a credit card. When him and his wife got divorced she kept the sofa and he kept the debt.

He took out one of those loans that consolidate all you debts into one massive cripplilng debt. And added a bit on for a holiday, new clothes and a car.

When he couldn't affored the repayments on that he renegotiated. Took another holiday, bought a load of designer gear and refurnished his living room.

I currently have £170.00 on my credit card and I'm sweating. When I ask him how much he currently owes he says he honestly doesn't know. 'It's only numbers' he tells me.

He makes the minimum payment, only pays the interest on his mortgage and lives like a king.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing.

[bobo the clown]

http://www.isportconnect.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=42" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PG's statement and that he & Eddie D are seeking new investors. I bet they are !!

What I can't work out is that Eddie is a very capable businessmen. Burnden Leisure had fingers in the hotel, the whole Middlebrook complex and other business options. Are they all losing cash ?? Hardly a wise investment if they are.

[thebish]

http://www.isportconnect.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=42

PG's statement and that he & Eddie D are seeking new investors. I bet they are !!

What I can't work out is that Eddie is a very capable businessmen. Burnden Leisure had fingers in the hotel, the whole Middlebrook complex and other business options. Are they all losing cash ?? Hardly a wise investment if they are.

what is there in the club to attract an investor??

[bobo the clown]

http://www.isportconnect.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=42

PG's statement and that he & Eddie D are seeking new investors. I bet they are !!

What I can't work out is that Eddie is a very capable businessmen. Burnden Leisure had fingers in the hotel, the whole Middlebrook complex and other business options. Are they all losing cash ?? Hardly a wise investment if they are.

what is there in the club to attract an investor??

f'call, I'd think.

Though you'd expect the Middlebrook to be a good, steady earner.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

This is fecking simple. Get into the Prem, revenues go up. Don't, and they go down. With a £160 million pound debt only the first option leads to nirvana, the second leads to pompeydom (eventually).

[BWFC_Insane]

This is fecking simple. Get into the Prem, revenues go up. Don't, and they go down. With a £160 million pound debt only the first option leads to nirvana, the second leads to pompeydom (eventually).

We were losing 30M each year trying to stay in the top flight. Being in the top flight isn't going to fix us now.

[Riviman]

Nice piece on the Manny Road website:

http://mannyroad.com/bolton-wanderers-a ... 0-million/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

This is fecking simple. Get into the Prem, revenues go up. Don't, and they go down. With a £160 million pound debt only the first option leads to nirvana, the second leads to pompeydom (eventually).

We were losing 30M each year trying to stay in the top flight. Being in the top flight isn't going to fix us now.

I know it's panto season and all that, but... Oh yes it is!

(congrats on your revival, by the way. When did that happen? I've always claimed sprouts were life enhancing).

[midlands exile]

Nice piece on the Manny Road website:

http://mannyroad.com/bolton-wanderers-a ... 0-million/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Painful reading, what an horrific waste of money.

Is there a full set of the latest accounts on the internet? Perhaps clutching at straws, but is there a chance that Eddie is using the club's accounts in some Amazon.com-esque way to reduce his tax liabilities, and it's not really as bad as it appears? Or perhaps we're holding back profit to release next year when the FFP rules kick in?

[H. Pedersen]

What I can't work out is that Eddie is a very capable businessmen. Burnden Leisure had fingers in the hotel, the whole Middlebrook complex and other business options. Are they all losing cash ?? Hardly a wise investment if they are.

I've started to question whether or not being a "capable businessman" is that much of an achievement. Vincent Tan and Mike Ashley are "capable businessmen" and they seem to be morons. Mitt Romney was a "capable businessman" and ran one of the most idiotic campaigns in history.

Business appears to be a world where you can inherit money, or be in the right place at the right time, or know the right people, and make a bundle. Football, you have to prove you know what you're doing over and over again.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

This is fecking simple. Get into the Prem, revenues go up. Don't, and they go down. With a £160 million pound debt only the first option leads to nirvana, the second leads to pompeydom (eventually).

We were losing 30M each year trying to stay in the top flight. Being in the top flight isn't going to fix us now.

Were we to go up and bank the cash and subsequent parachute payments (that are significantly bigger than ours), then we'd be able to reduce the debt by nearly half, allowing for minimal team investment.

[BWFC_Insane]

This is fecking simple. Get into the Prem, revenues go up. Don't, and they go down. With a £160 million pound debt only the first option leads to nirvana, the second leads to pompeydom (eventually).

We were losing 30M each year trying to stay in the top flight. Being in the top flight isn't going to fix us now.

Were we to go up and bank the cash and subsequent parachute payments (that are significantly bigger than ours), then we'd be able to reduce the debt by nearly half, allowing for minimal team investment.

I'm not sure nearly half, but yes that is the method to significantly reduce the debt. However, the issue is what you end up with is a season in the top flight where you get spanked every week, then the following year a demoralised team that have to mount a championship campaign.

And seeing your side go up, not spend and come back down again leads to unrest on the terraces. It is a good way in theory, West Brom pretty much did the same for a few seasons. But do our fans have the patience for it? I'd say no. And even taking that factor away you risk losing the manager and players who took you up if they don't see the money being spent to strengthen......

[Lord Kangana]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

[thebish]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

doesn't seem to be that much unrest on the terraces so far... we've seen a lot worse under previous tenures...

[Lord Kangana]

BWFCi is claiming there would be unrest if we went up and didn't spend money. Given your thoughts on our current predicament, does that seem a reasonable conclusion?

[thebish]

BWFCi is claiming there would be unrest if we went up and didn't spend money. Given your thoughts on our current predicament, does that seem a reasonable conclusion?

i think if we went up everyone would be happy - and then if we lost every week - everyone would be miserable - and if we scraped survival - everyone would be fecking deliriously overjoyed - but if we got relegated again - everyone would be miserable but not suicidal as we'd have been here before... it's not rocket science...

however - i don't think there is much evidence of the kind of unrest a board would need to take notice of on the terraces now - do you?

[Lord Kangana]

So you agree that its a bit silly considering our current plight to suggest that being in a higher division (a feat in itself that would require a miraculous turnaround in fortune) would elicit the ire of the majority of fans?

[BWFC_Insane]

So you agree that its a bit silly considering our current plight to suggest that being in a higher division (a feat in itself that would require a miraculous turnaround in fortune) would elicit the ire of the majority of fans?

The point I was making is that it is harder than it sounds IMO to go up and just pocket the money and accept you're coming straight back down, then continue to use the money to pay the debt off. Even Crystal Palace who were on the brink of going out of business a few seasons back are spending a bit (which initially they weren't going to). They're hedging their bets as their owners have said. Investing in the ground but also in the team.

What I'm saying is that we made a loss every season towards the end in the premiership last time and still couldn't stay up.

Of course promotion is preferable but long term it won't solve our problems IMO. I mean where we are now is as a direct result of an extended run in the top flight.